Lilydale boom gates turn into kindling

 
  Madjikthise Assistant Commissioner

Earlier today...they apparently had an argument with a log truck and lost.

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  Lad_Porter Chief Commissioner

Location: Yarra Glen
Oh well, it's on the list of 50, so maybe this will bring it on a bit?  I don't think.

Off topic, but I'm surprised to see a laden log truck going in that direction, and in Lilydale.  Usually they are coming from the forested areas, and normally they go via Yarra Glen and the Christmas Hills road.
  Madjikthise Assistant Commissioner

I thought that too, maybe they weren't straight enough and got rejected. Laughing
  Lad_Porter Chief Commissioner

Location: Yarra Glen
Doesn't answer the question of why it went through the boom gates anyway.  Maybe the driver is related to that guy in South Melbourne?
  trestle_nutter Train Controller

Location: Yarra Valley
which raises the question.......how are they going to grade separate this crossing? ......lots of issues to be considered - the sidings used for metro maintenance, the stabling sidings, the John St road underpass, the VRI......
  trainbrain Deputy Commissioner

which raises the question.......how are they going to grade separate this crossing? ......lots of issues to be considered - the sidings used for metro maintenance, the stabling sidings, the John St road underpass, the VRI......
trestle_nutter
PS it ain't gonna happen
  LancedDendrite Chief Commissioner

Location: North Haverbrook; where the monorail is king!
The only way to do it really is to elevate the railway over the road.

Sticking the road under will affect too many side roads, especially the Nexans (Olex) cable factory and the bus bay at the station. Road-over is even worse. Rail-under would require the already low clearance John St bridge to be turned into a level crossing in order to ease grades sufficiently.

It's probably going to look something like this:
  tom9876543 Train Controller

LancedDendrite, your proposal is extravagant and unrealistic.

The Melways street directory has a proposed Lilydale bypass to the south.
This road should be built, and obviously has a bridge over the railway.
All through traffic will use the bypass.

Local traffic can use John St and Beresford Rd.

After the bypass has been opened, the two Lilydale railway crossings can simply be closed to road traffic.
  Lad_Porter Chief Commissioner

Location: Yarra Glen
There's quite an extensive discussion of what might happen at Lilydale in the first two pages of the "50 level crossings to be removed" thread.  I believe that ideally the crossing removal should be part of the earmarked Lilydale Bypass of the Maroondah Highway.  The town needs this, not just for the crossing removal but also to get through traffic (such as log trucks?) out of the main street.

As it is on the list of 50, you would like to believe that the LXRA has something in mind.  Question is, what?  There's no detail on the web site - it just says that Lilydale is in "early planning and engineering assessment" (along with 15 others).
  LancedDendrite Chief Commissioner

Location: North Haverbrook; where the monorail is king!
If you think the ninnies protesting against elevated rail on the Dandenong line are bad, just wait until you see what Lilydale residents and businesses will have to say about cutting Maroondah Hwy in half at Lilydale Station!

I understand that an elevated Lilydale Station has been canvassed by State Government bureaucrats in the past - and that a Lilydale Bypass is still a while off, if it happens at all.
  Lad_Porter Chief Commissioner

Location: Yarra Glen
I deliberately used the word "ideally", but would have to agree that the bypass is many years away, if at all, and will not form part of the crossing removal project.  Another thing to consider, probably also many years away, is the duplication from Mooroolbark.  Whatever form the crossing removal takes, it has to allow for that eventuality.  It would be nice to also get the through traffic such as log trucks out of the main street, but that's really a separate issue.  

The station and crossing are in a commercial area, with few residential properties nearby.  As it is now, the Maroondah Highway is cut in half every time a train goes through, with some impatient motorists seen to bail out and head for the John Street underpass anyway.  And if or when the new timetable is implemented, there will be an arrival and departure every 20 minutes in off peak, not every 30 minutes as now.
  historian Deputy Commissioner

The only way to do it really is to elevate the railway over the road.

Sticking the road under will affect too many side roads, especially the Nexans (Olex) cable factory and the bus bay at the station. Road-over is even worse.
LancedDendrite

Why? The Maroondah Hwy at this point is 50m wide - from curb to curb. Incredibly wide. At the moment on the east side it has a 4 lane section of main road, flanked on each side by narrow reservations, a row of parallel car parking, a service lane equal to two further lanes, and then angle parking.

There is plenty of room for a four lane (two each way) bridge or underpass. The existing service lanes provide access to the abutting properties - including the factory. The service lanes are easily wide enough for two way traffic, or you could keep them as one way with connecting links under the bridge at the railway end.

You'd have to sit firmly on VicRoads as I am sure they'd want a six lane bridge on general principles.

The locals would probably object strongly, but it would be a long way the cheapest solution. There is only the factory and industrial shops on the west side of the line and only a small section of shops on the east would be affected - and they'd be about 20 metres from the ramps anyway.
  Lad_Porter Chief Commissioner

Location: Yarra Glen
What about continued access to the bus terminals and station car parking, which are entered at existing ground level? - or do you propose to remove and redevelop these as well?  Buses and cars are very important at this station, and must be properly catered for, as it serves a vast hinterland to Healesville, Warburton and beyond, as well as several cross suburban services.  Some buses come from the west, and some motorists park in the car park on the opposite side of the line to where they came from.  In each case, at present, it involves crossing the railway and then a sharp turn into the bus bay or car park, always at ground level.
  LancedDendrite Chief Commissioner

Location: North Haverbrook; where the monorail is king!
Road-over-Rail is achievable but the level crossing is at the bottom of two hills as you drive along Maroondah Highway, requiring a long bridge to avoid too steep a 'dip' at each bridge ramp. Bus access would also be an issue, as Lad_Porter has mentioned.

It also does nothing for the rather low-clearance John St bridge, which would need replacing or augmentation when the line is fully duplicated.
  tom9876543 Train Controller

We can safely assume Lilydale crossing will be replaced by a road over railway bridge.
The only question is, will it be the proposed southern bypass, or where the existing crossing is.
My guesstimate is government cost estimate for the Lilydale southern bypass will be comparable to all other options - and it has the widest benefit. So they will build the bypass.
South Morang rail extension is an example of most rail project funds being spent on road bridges.
  Lad_Porter Chief Commissioner

Location: Yarra Glen
I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for the bypass, which will be a massive project.  Looking at the map, it calls for a new four lane divided highway from near Taylor Street in the west, through to Anderson Street and a turnout into the existing divided highway, and including a grade separation near Taylor Street (which is quite a distance from the existing station).   It's way beyond the scope of just a level crossing removal, however complex these might be, so my guess is that the Maroondah Highway crossing will be done first.  I agree that a road-over solution seems liklely, but in view of already mentioned access difficulties, it will be interesting to see what the LXRA eventually comes up with.  Hopefully there will be provision for public consultation.
  Carnot Chief Commissioner

Another day, another boom gate at Lilydale turned into kindling...  according to metrotrains.com.au

Line suspended between Mooroolbark and Lilydale.
  historian Deputy Commissioner

Road-over-Rail is achievable but the level crossing is at the bottom of two hills as you drive along Maroondah Highway, requiring a long bridge to avoid too steep a 'dip' at each bridge ramp. Bus access would also be an issue, as Lad_Porter has mentioned.

It also does nothing for the rather low-clearance John St bridge, which would need replacing or augmentation when the line is fully duplicated.
LancedDendrite

The ramps at Oakleigh are about 120 metres long. This would be about 2/3rds the way to start of the hill on the west, and only about half way to Hutchinson St on the east. I don't believe there would be any problems with 'dips' for a bridge ramp.

Access for buses can be easily addressed. Put in a set of traffic lights at Hutchinson St. Buses - either from the east or the west leave the Maroondah Hwy here, travel west along the service lane to William St, under the overbridge to the bus terminal. Then loop back to the Maroondah Hwy service lane, east along the service lane to Hutchinson St. Then east or west along the Maroondah Hwy.

John St is no excuse for an expensive solution. There will be another grade separation 150 metres to the north with no height restrictions.

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