Electrification of V/Line lines

 
  fubert Beginner

This the reality of what is reasonably needed, can be afforded and will most likely happen  short - medium term:

1.  Extension electrification Cranbourne to Cranbourne East .
2. Extension of Werribee electrification to Wyndam Vale.
3. Electrification following duplication to Melton., for completion by  Metro Tunnel opening .
4. Electrification of the  RRL track pair from Southern Cross to Wyndamvale via Tarneit .
Allows  Tarneit & Wyndam Vale to be served by sparks, releasing V/Locity capacity to cater for Geelong growth .
kuldalai

RRL is supposedly future proofed for electrification. Well, that was part of the design scope.

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  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia

RRL is supposedly future proofed for electrification. Well, that was part of the design scope.
fubert

This is true. I have this in a letter from the Minister of the time.

Electrification has been designed into the RRL project.  What is urgently needed is to complete the wires from Werribee around the corner to Tarneit? enabling easy interchange from Geelong and newport services.
  TOQ-1 Deputy Commissioner

Location: Power Trainger

RRL is supposedly future proofed for electrification. Well, that was part of the design scope.
This is true. I have this in a letter from the Minister of the time.

Electrification has been designed into the RRL project.  What is urgently needed is to complete the wires from Werribee around the corner to Tarneit? enabling easy interchange from Geelong and newport services.
bevans
I believe there is currently some pesky legislation that means that any rail line outside of the inner Melbourne area cannot terminate at a station on another line, which is why this extension was removed in the first place. If you look at the photo that has been doing the rounds explaining works to be undertaken before and after Melbourne Metro, it says that Craigieburn Services will be terminating at Roxburg Park after the Somerton Link is put in so that Craigieburn isn't on the Wallan line.

That would have to be dealt with first.
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner


RRL is supposedly future proofed for electrification. Well, that was part of the design scope.
This is true. I have this in a letter from the Minister of the time.

Electrification has been designed into the RRL project.  What is urgently needed is to complete the wires from Werribee around the corner to Tarneit? enabling easy interchange from Geelong and newport services.
bevans
The planning is two fold  1.  Extend the existing Werribee line with stations at  Browns Rd, Black forrest Rd and  terminating at Wyndam Vale which has been designed as intercahnge with Geelong trains .  2.  RRL electrified from Southern Cross via  Sunshine and Deer Park to terminate at  Wyndamvale turn back .  Services to operate as two separate spark routes  Wyndam Vale via Werribee and  Southern Cross  -  Wyndam Vale direct via  Deer Park .  No intention to operate as a loop service for some reason .
  james.au Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
I believe there is currently some pesky legislation that means that any rail line outside of the inner Melbourne area cannot terminate at a station on another line
TOQ-1
Wow.  What legislation do you think - id be keen to find that if I can.  Any clues would be appreciated.
  dthead Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia

OK, if new v/locity electric units were built, what would happen to the diesel ones? They might end up in the scrap heap too, so according to your logic either way they are screwed. And weren't they recently taken out of service for wheel wear, and now they are slowly returning to service? I'm not saying ground the whole fleet at once, they could do one 2 or 3 car unit at a time, although I am aware that the cost of which would be considerable.Wrong,

Please read Flygon's post.  IF electric sets were made, the displaced  Velocity sets would be used on other lines.

And I'l repeat myself they would not convert a Diesal-Hrydraulic unit to a Electric unit. It would be 90% of a totally new unit.

Regards,
David Head
dthead
If one wants to, google   "adelaide electric trains" to see that it is possible to design a Electric train that  was loosely based on the velocity......

Regards,
David Head

https://www.railpage.com.au/photos/7432
  fubert Beginner

The Adelaide spark looks a lot like the New Intercity Fleet NSW Trains is looking at.
  Mufreight Train Controller

Location: North Ipswich
The Adelaide spark looks a lot like the New Intercity Fleet NSW Trains is looking at.
fubert
Or the West Australian B series or the Queensland Rail 160/260 series sets
  gomer Train Controller

Location: Melbourne

RRL is supposedly future proofed for electrification. Well, that was part of the design scope.
This is true. I have this in a letter from the Minister of the time.

Electrification has been designed into the RRL project.  What is urgently needed is to complete the wires from Werribee around the corner to Tarneit? enabling easy interchange from Geelong and newport services.The planning is two fold  1.  Extend the existing Werribee line with stations at  Browns Rd, Black forrest Rd and  terminating at Wyndam Vale which has been designed as intercahnge with Geelong trains .  2.  RRL electrified from Southern Cross via  Sunshine and Deer Park to terminate at  Wyndamvale turn back .  Services to operate as two separate spark routes  Wyndam Vale via Werribee and  Southern Cross  -  Wyndam Vale direct via  Deer Park .  No intention to operate as a loop service for some reason .
kuldalai
My two bobs worth. The original plans did plan for the wire to run from Werribee to Wyndamvale with a large stabling and maintenance depot to the north of Wyndamvale. It also had a stabling facility near Blackshaws Rd for Vline services. The idea of the wire running to Sunshine is a complete waste of time until the whole Geelong line is wired. The reason the RRL was built was to get the vline services off the Werribee line to allow more services on those paths and to service the growth areas. Putting surburban trains on between Sunshine and Wyndamvale will only cause congestion and slow the Geelong trains down. The next step I believe is after the Melton line is duplicated it will be wired by 2026 in conjunction with Melb Metro and be serviced with new gen 7 car trains running between Melton/ Dandy only. The next 7 Vlocity 3 car units (60-66) will allow for the last of the Geelong peak services to be Vlocitys. This allows those N sets to be extra services on the other long distance routes.The next 9 Vlocity 3 car units (67-75) will allow the P's and A class to retire as well as the H sets. After that order is completed purpose built diesel electric multiple units will be built for all long distance services allowing the N class to be retired by 2026. When the Melton electrification is up and running and along with the Sunbury services it will saturate this line which makes me think that the airport connection will be on the Broadmeadows line. So Seymour services need to move and they will to the Upfield line as mentioned in the last budget. Cheers.
  trainbrain Chief Commissioner

Geelong electrics will not happen
  712M Chief Commissioner

27 VLocity carriages to replace 55 H carriages, while still allowing for future growth? Somehow I don't see that stacking up.
  gomer Train Controller

Location: Melbourne
You have a point, maybe another order after the 27.  But H sets are only used in the peaks with two trips a day where as Vlocitys can run all day. P 17 is at Newport for a repaint so they are staying for a while yet.
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner


RRL is supposedly future proofed for electrification. Well, that was part of the design scope.
This is true. I have this in a letter from the Minister of the time.

Electrification has been designed into the RRL project.  What is urgently needed is to complete the wires from Werribee around the corner to Tarneit? enabling easy interchange from Geelong and newport services.The planning is two fold  1.  Extend the existing Werribee line with stations at  Browns Rd, Black forrest Rd and  terminating at Wyndam Vale which has been designed as intercahnge with Geelong trains .  2.  RRL electrified from Southern Cross via  Sunshine and Deer Park to terminate at  Wyndamvale turn back .  Services to operate as two separate spark routes  Wyndam Vale via Werribee and  Southern Cross  -  Wyndam Vale direct via  Deer Park .  No intention to operate as a loop service for some reason .My two bobs worth. The original plans did plan for the wire to run from Werribee to Wyndamvale with a large stabling and maintenance depot to the north of Wyndamvale. It also had a stabling facility near Blackshaws Rd for Vline services. The idea of the wire running to Sunshine is a complete waste of time until the whole Geelong line is wired. The reason the RRL was built was to get the vline services off the Werribee line to allow more services on those paths and to service the growth areas. Putting surburban trains on between Sunshine and Wyndamvale will only cause congestion and slow the Geelong trains down. The next step I believe is after the Melton line is duplicated it will be wired by 2026 in conjunction with Melb Metro and be serviced with new gen 7 car trains running between Melton/ Dandy only. The next 7 Vlocity 3 car units (60-66) will allow for the last of the Geelong peak services to be Vlocitys. This allows those N sets to be extra services on the other long distance routes.The next 9 Vlocity 3 car units (67-75) will allow the P's and A class to retire as well as the H sets. After that order is completed purpose built diesel electric multiple units will be built for all long distance services allowing the N class to be retired by 2026. When the Melton electrification is up and running and along with the Sunbury services it will saturate this line which makes me think that the airport connection will be on the Broadmeadows line. So Seymour services need to move and they will to the Upfield line as mentioned in the last budget. Cheers.
gomer
Next order for V/Locity above 75 x 3 car sets will be 35 - 40  trailer cars to make up to 40 sets into 4 car sets for potential use over  Geelong,  Ballarat,  Bendigo, Shepparton and Traralgon  lines .  H cars are going to be arpound for a few years yet on Bacchus Marsh , Melton and  potentially  Seymour.  Yes bg  Seymour / Shepparton via Upfield sooner than later.
Next new type train will most likely be long distance  sets for  Warrnambool, Swan Hill, Albury & Bairnsdale as existing sets are very un reliable . If Melton & Wyndamvale via Sunshine gets electrified then the V/Locity fleet will manage on Geelong just, and that avoids having to buy a new generation Inter urban DMU .
  Heihachi_73 Chief Commissioner

Location: Terminating at Ringwood
Can we get rid of the broad gauge already before thinking of brand new rolling stock and voltages?
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

Can we get rid of the broad gauge already before thinking of brand new rolling stock and voltages?
Heihachi_73
The reality is like it or NOT the State does NOT have a bottomless bucket of money .  So any further standardization of the Victorian network is likely to be along these lines in this order  :

-  Wendouree to Ararat so the entire North West is  sg .
-  Seymour to  Tocumwal , and Toolamba - Echuca -  Deniliquin  so entire North East is  sg.

Anything further beyond that will be driven by the needs of freight traffic,  NOT passenger.

Forget any standardization of the Melbourne Metro network as there would be absolutely no benefit, it will never happen .  QED
  james.au Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
Whats the cost differential between a SG and an SG/DG sleeper?  Could they work on replacing sleepers with DG sleepers over time and potentially lower the overall cost of conversion that way?

And for clarity, im meaning for Metro/RRL quality.  I know from the Murray Basin business case that the sleepers for those lines are around $110 each.

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