Murray Basin standardisation

 
  james.au Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
Being that there is one pax per day on that line, id say they can manage Ballarat-Maryborough as one section.

Re Goulburn Valley - I'm not so sure.  Its a freight route and the reasons for standardising Mildura will apply to GV.  The pax fleet shouldn't be  a problem, id say it might actually help the Albury train reliability issues given they're both using N class locos etc.  Plus if you SG the GV lines, its a short hop to link Toc back to Narrandera and improve the freight network offering across the border?

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  LancedDendrite Chief Commissioner

Location: North Haverbrook; where the monorail is king!
Narranderra via Tocumwal? Not a prospect for passenger services. The Griffith Xplorer is the only passenger train that stops at Narrandera and it runs a round trip once a week. And that's on top of the usual problems that extending V/Line services past the border brings - just look at the lack of progress on extending the Albury V/Line service to Wagga Wagga!
  james.au Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
Sorry LD, my post is not clear, ill fix it.  I meant Toc to Narrandera for freight traffic.  Pax, i agree, has no chance of making it up there, aside from the odd heritage train once every blue moon.
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
Regarding crossing loops between Gheringhap and Maryborough, currently the only crossing loops on this section are, Gheringhap, Meredith, Lal Lal and Warrenheip.
Gman_86
You will probably see half of these loops getting the chop (Gheringhap and Lal Lal) ?
  woodford Chief Commissioner

Narranderra via Tocumwal? Not a prospect for passenger services. The Griffith Xplorer is the only passenger train that stops at Narrandera and it runs a round trip once a week. And that's on top of the usual problems that extending V/Line services past the border brings - just look at the lack of progress on extending the Albury V/Line service to Wagga Wagga!
LancedDendrite

This is a woodford opinion, you have been warned.............

VLine cannot run this service untill faster and more powerfull rolling stock becomes availible. Wagga is a VERY large town, its station staff told me they can get 45 to 50 people travelling to Melbourne each day. In a lot of days even week days the current 5 car pass car sets are struggling to take the current numbers, another 50 will require another pass car. The N class loco's simply have NOT got the power to haul 7 cars (6 pass cars and the power van) and come anywhere near holding the current timetable. A VLocity style vehicle though will be able to travel from Wagga to Melbourne in only around 35 to 40 minutes longer than the currrent Albury timetable, this will bring Wagga people in day trip to Melbourne territory, instead of the current at least over night stay, such a day return service will only bring more Wagga passengers to Melbourne.

woodford
  james.au Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
@woodford - if there is sufficient demand for an early morning train ex WGA to Melbourne, could it not operate a different stopping pattern south of Albury?  Say operate Wagga, some in between stations (such as the Rock/Henty/Culcairn), Albury, Seymour, Broadmeadows and SCS?  I.e., cut out some of the intermediate stops south of Albury which probably are not destinations for Wagga or Albury pax anyway?  You could then keep the train consist the same length (or shorter even and offer greater speeds).  

Still has the trouble that there are no locos/wagons for such a service, and it may not be cost effective for Victoria.  This probably would be an additional service on top of what is there now. If we are talking timings, Id envisage something like a 4 or 5am departure from Wagga and then a return to arrive in Wagga around 10 or 11pm.  This might cannabilise some of the XPT traffic though which would need to be considered.
  woodford Chief Commissioner

@woodford - if there is sufficient demand for an early morning train ex WGA to Melbourne, could it not operate a different stopping pattern south of Albury?  Say operate Wagga, some in between stations (such as the Rock/Henty/Culcairn), Albury, Seymour, Broadmeadows and SCS?  I.e., cut out some of the intermediate stops south of Albury which probably are not destinations for Wagga or Albury pax anyway?  You could then keep the train consist the same length (or shorter even and offer greater speeds).  

Still has the trouble that there are no locos/wagons for such a service, and it may not be cost effective for Victoria.  This probably would be an additional service on top of what is there now. If we are talking timings, Id envisage something like a 4 or 5am departure from Wagga and then a return to arrive in Wagga around 10 or 11pm.  This might cannabilise some of the XPT traffic though which would need to be considered.
james.au
Unfortunately one must assume this mob of idiots controlling our destiny (the current state government) have not got the wit to add any extra services. A consist with a cruise speed of 130kph (the maximum the track will allow) with a power to weight ratio of at least 11bhp/tonne (ie a modern DMU) could leave Wagga around 0550 and still get to Southen Cross at 1030, with the current stopping pattern plus The Rock, Henty and Culcairn. In this setup the XPT would not run south of Wagga. Note, this IS what NSW originaly requested from Victoria, ie the idea that VLine should run to Wagga comes from the NSW railways.

This would in fact be a major boost to VLine Albury service as its very likely the actual cost of running the service the extra distance to Wagga would not amount to much but the fares paid by the Wagga passengers are all substantial, ie VLine is getting a lot more "buck for its bang", that is the amount of extra funds the service will receive would well exceed the extra cost of running the extra distance.

woodford
  Edith Chief Commissioner

Location: Line 1 from Porte de Vincennes bound for Bastille station
@woodford - if there is sufficient demand for an early morning train ex WGA to Melbourne, could it not operate a different stopping pattern south of Albury?  Say operate Wagga, some in between stations (such as the Rock/Henty/Culcairn), Albury, Seymour, Broadmeadows and SCS?  I.e., cut out some of the intermediate stops south of Albury which probably are not destinations for Wagga or Albury pax anyway?  You could then keep the train consist the same length (or shorter even and offer greater speeds).  

Still has the trouble that there are no locos/wagons for such a service, and it may not be cost effective for Victoria.  This probably would be an additional service on top of what is there now. If we are talking timings, Id envisage something like a 4 or 5am departure from Wagga and then a return to arrive in Wagga around 10 or 11pm.  This might cannabilise some of the XPT traffic though which would need to be considered.
james.au
Unfortunately one must assume this mob of idiots controlling our destiny (the current state government) have not got the wit to add any extra services. A consist with a cruise speed of 130kph (the maximum the track will allow) with a power to weight ratio of at least 11bhp/tonne (ie a modern DMU) could leave Wagga around 0550 and still get to Southen Cross at 1030, with the current stopping pattern plus The Rock, Henty and Culcairn. In this setup the XPT would not run south of Wagga. Note, this IS what NSW originaly requested from Victoria, ie the idea that VLine should run to Wagga comes from the NSW railways.

This would in fact be a major boost to VLine Albury service as its very likely the actual cost of running the service the extra distance to Wagga would not amount to much but the fares paid by the Wagga passengers are all substantial, ie VLine is getting a lot more "buck for its bang", that is the amount of extra funds the service will receive would well exceed the extra cost of running the extra distance.

woodford
"woodford"
  ARodH Chief Train Controller

Location: East Oakleigh, Vic
Regarding crossing loops between Gheringhap and Maryborough, currently the only crossing loops on this section are, Gheringhap, Meredith, Lal Lal and Warrenheip.
You will probably see half of these loops getting the chop (Gheringhap and Lal Lal) ?
Nightfire

I suspect the loop at Lal Lal would need a fair bit of rehabilitation sleeper wise, as when I dropped by there on the way back from Ballarat, track 1 had a number of dodgy ones and track 2 (the existing main)  is currently a bg concrete sleeper every 4-5. The level crossing at Lal Lal on the other hand is dual gauge on both tracks, which is something still to happen to the ones in suburban Ballarat (towards the workshops).
  LancedDendrite Chief Commissioner

Location: North Haverbrook; where the monorail is king!
Stage 1 of the Murray Basin Rail Project is humming along nicely - about 15 hi-rail excavators are replacing rotten sleepers with new sticks around Tempy at the moment, working south from Ouyen. New wooden sleepers are lineside between Tempy and Woomelang, plus accompanying smallish piles of fresh ballast.
  james.au Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
What is the ratio of concrete to wooden sleepers that is going to eventuate in this do we know?
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Why is anyone in this day and age still using timber sleepers?
  LancedDendrite Chief Commissioner

Location: North Haverbrook; where the monorail is king!
Why is anyone in this day and age still using timber sleepers?
YM-Mundrabilla
They're doing a resleepering cycle, not relaying whole sections of track at this point in time. As there are no gauge-convertible low-profile concrete sleepers (aka timber replacement sleepers) certified for use on V/Line perway, new timber sticks are the only option for future gauge conversion.
  Trainplanner Chief Commissioner

Location: Along the Line
There are to be gauge convertible concrete sleepers used and that contract has been let but I'm guessing there is a time lag between them coming on line and the need to keep the line in operating condition.
  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
Are there discussions happening about Ballarat and north ballarT and north Geelong yard for SG ?
  LancedDendrite Chief Commissioner

Location: North Haverbrook; where the monorail is king!
There are to be gauge convertible concrete sleepers used and that contract has been let but I'm guessing there is a time lag between them coming on line and the need to keep the line in operating condition.
Trainplanner
Murray Basin Rail Project Stage 1 works were tendered for and funded in State Budgets from previous years IIRC; at least before the final gauge conversion plan was released in the later half of last year.
Concrete sleepers would've been part of a later stage tender, presumably for full-blown perway rebuilding in some of the more heavily trafficked sections.
  prwise Locomotive Driver

Narranderra via Tocumwal? Not a prospect for passenger services.
LancedDendrite
Seem roadworks in place to convert the narrow road overpass about 30 K's south of Narrandera back to a level crossing.
  james.au Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
Narranderra via Tocumwal? Not a prospect for passenger services.
Seem roadworks in place to convert the narrow road overpass about 30 K's south of Narrandera back to a level crossing.
prwise
Are you saying the RMS has started works?  I had heard this was on the cards...
  Pressman Spirit of the Vine

Location: Wherever the Tin Chook or Qantas takes me
Narranderra via Tocumwal? Not a prospect for passenger services.
Seem roadworks in place to convert the narrow road overpass about 30 K's south of Narrandera back to a level crossing.
Are you saying the RMS has started works?  I had heard this was on the cards...
james.au
Would this be the overpass 8kms south of Morundah? (38kms south of Narrandera on the Newell Hwy)
And why would they spend money on building a level crossing on a closed railway line?
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Seem roadworks in place to convert the narrow road overpass about 30 K's south of Narrandera back to a level crossing.
prwise

Not sure I understand why this is significant?  Where does it fit into the scheme of things?
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Why is anyone in this day and age still using timber sleepers?
They're doing a resleepering cycle, not relaying whole sections of track at this point in time. As there are no gauge-convertible low-profile concrete sleepers (aka timber replacement sleepers) certified for use on V/Line perway, new timber sticks are the only option for future gauge conversion.
LancedDendrite
I am not a believer in the so called low profile (cheap/shorter life/higher maintenance/lower axleload - whatever) concrete sleepers but it is an indictment that a dual gauge version has not been 'certified' (whatever that means) for use in Victoria given the obvious intended use of them.

To me this is a continuation of the deep seated short sighted Victorian mentality to hinder the spread/success of SG at all costs.

We will make a balls of the project yet. Crying or Very sad
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
Narranderra via Tocumwal? Not a prospect for passenger services.
Seem roadworks in place to convert the narrow road overpass about 30 K's south of Narrandera back to a level crossing.
Are you saying the RMS has started works?  I had heard this was on the cards...
Would this be the overpass 8kms south of Morundah? (38kms south of Narrandera on the Newell Hwy)
And why would they spend money on building a level crossing on a closed railway line?
Pressman
On closed / out of service railways, history tells us that they just bypass the road around the old bridge and ripping up the railway so a level crossing doesn't need to be built !
  prwise Locomotive Driver

Narranderra via Tocumwal? Not a prospect for passenger services.
Seem roadworks in place to convert the narrow road overpass about 30 K's south of Narrandera back to a level crossing.
Are you saying the RMS has started works?  I had heard this was on the cards...
Would this be the overpass 8kms south of Morundah? (38kms south of Narrandera on the Newell Hwy)
And why would they spend money on building a level crossing on a closed railway line?
Pressman
Yes - that would be the one. May not be a level crossing, maybe  just bull doze through. New alignment to the west when heading north on Newell. Was up there about  2 months ago. Overpass narrow and no room for 2 full width vehicles. (well not for faint hearted). I am surprised there were ever sufficient rail movements to justify an overpass in the first place, as all other crossings north to at least Moree are level crossings, save one north of Dubbo and one more north of Moree on a branch line.
  ARodH Chief Train Controller

Location: East Oakleigh, Vic
This bridge ? I can't see any trace of that line past Finley on google earth/maps, nor any sign of it being able to be used without major repair after Berrigan. Actually I think
Morundah is the usable limit, though I noticed a dirt crossing covered over at Corobimilla.

Also what is the relevance of a
Narranderra - Tocumwal link to a Victorian project when Quyen - Pinnaroo & Mildura - Broken Hill has more?
  james.au Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
This bridge https? I can't see any trace of that line past Finley on google earth/maps, nor any sign of it being able to be used without major repair after Berrigan. Actually I think
Morundah is the usable limit, though I noticed a dirt crossing covered over at Corobimilla.

Also what is the relevance of a

Narranderra - Tocumwal link to a Victorian project when Quyen - Pinnaroo & Mildura - Broken Hill has more?
ARodH
The line has been lifted from Tocumwal to somewhere south of Finley. From Finley to Berrigan to Jerilderie the line is there but was built to light standards so grass has taken hold in various places and its been cut through to allow road access in some places.  From Jerilderie up, it is in better shape, and but for some sleeper repairs, may be in workable order, with exception of the bridges/culverts which probably all need replacing (especially the ones that have been cut through at Narrandera.

And agreed - this should be in the thread relating to the Narrandera/Tocumwal line here:

https://www.railpage.com.au/f-t11382146.htm

Perhaps @bevans/ @michaelgreenhill we should move it?

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