Have you ever seen a pigs breakfast, Victoria gov, MFB and the CFA

 
  woodford Chief Commissioner

I usually do not take to much notice of politics, now politicians are not REALLY stupid but boy somtimes they SURE act that way.

The current Andrews is currently involved in an issue thats got all the elements of classic stuff up. The United Firefighters (UFU) and Victoria's Metropolitan Fire Brigade are involved in an EBA, the issues are complex and the whole thing went before the Fair Work Commission. Its report appear to have thrown a major spanner in the works, The Andrews Government i saying it solves all issues and is pressing ahead with it. Unfortunately it appears NO ONE ELSE thinks that, it looks like the UFU, the MFB and the CFA have serious issues with it. The CFA has gone as far as puttiing the agreement to the Supreme Court, who have agreed with them and have granted an Injunction preventing them (the CFA board) from signing the agreement. Never the less the Andrews Government has risked angering the Supreme Court by sacking the CFA board for NOT signing an agreement a Supreme Court Injunction stops them from signing.

There's news articles all over the place about it down here, its making the Premier of Victoria looking like a right idiot, given his actions on this what hope has the Victorian rail system got.


I simply had to write about this, its SSSSSSSSSSSSSOOOOOOOOOOOOOO stupid, it begger's belief,

woodford

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  woodford Chief Commissioner
  Boss Chief Commissioner

Location: Caulfield Line
For a reasonable summary see............

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/victorian-firefighters-dispute-the-burning-questions-20160606-gpch0c.html

woodford
woodford
For an unreasonable summary of what the government is doing listen to the Premier or the newly elected Emergency Services Minister.  The CFA volunteer members do  not want their organisation taken over by the UFU.
  Carnot Chief Commissioner

I'm not surprised Dan the Dictator is trying to destroy the CFA through illegal means and handing the CFA over to the UFU control since they campaigned for him at the 2014 election.  Marxism is all about the ends justifying the means, no matter how destructive or stupid.

It's all going to backfire badly on the ALP since the whole debacle is a gift to Turnbull on the eve of the July 2 election.
  JimYarin Chief Commissioner

Location: Adelaide, South Australia
For a reasonable summary see............

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/victorian-firefighters-dispute-the-burning-questions-20160606-gpch0c.html

woodford
For an unreasonable summary of what the government is doing listen to the Premier or the newly elected Emergency Services Minister.  The CFA volunteer members do  not want their organisation taken over by the UFU.
Boss

Emergency Services?  prepare yourself for the firefighters union to take over the SES.  that will be next.
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
Does Andrews really believe that "divide and conquer" is clever?  Does he think he is above the directives of the Supreme Court? - ordering the CFA Board members to sign the agreement when they'd have been in contempt of Court if they had.
I don't know what Andrews has been taking, but he needs to get off it pronto. I keep wondering when the leadership challenge will come.
  Boss Chief Commissioner

Location: Caulfield Line
Does Andrews really believe that "divide and conquer" is clever?  Does he think he is above the directives of the Supreme Court? - ordering the CFA Board members to sign the agreement when they'd have been in contempt of Court if they had.
I don't know what Andrews has been taking, but he needs to get off it pronto. I keep wondering when the leadership challenge will come.
Valvegear
It will probably come from a CFMEU member.  When elected Premier, his movement from a worker to Premier will lift the average IQ of the CFMEU members remaining as well as the average IQ of the Minister & Premier combined.
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
ABC24 this morning were reporting the situ and said there was a chance CFA and SES members could potentially be seen in the yellows handing out LNP how to votes on polling day.
  Carnot Chief Commissioner
  mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner

I'm not surprised Dan the Dictator is trying to destroy the CFA through illegal means and handing the CFA over to the UFU control since they campaigned for him at the 2014 election.  Marxism is all about the ends justifying the means, no matter how destructive or stupid.

It's all going to backfire badly on the ALP since the whole debacle is a gift to Turnbull on the eve of the July 2 election.
Carnot
The only trouble is that the alternative is Matthew Guy. I hope Dan realizes what he has done and backtracks, because I sure do not want Matthew Guy running the State!

Michael
  doridori Chief Commissioner

Perhaps it's time the volunteer emergency services in Victoria bit the bullet and got into bed with each other, to form a single volunteer group?
Either that, or they could play hard to get and resign en masse, forcing Andrews government to employ hundreds more staff than budgeted for, let alone placing thousands in a retained position, costing hundreds of millions.
  RedEyeExpress Junior Train Controller

Location: Melbourne
Thanks everyone for the run-down on this debacle which to date I hadn't known much about (maybe I should look to Railpage for all my news from now on, rail-related or otherwise Laughing).
To date, the Andrews Government has done a remarkable job of spinning anything with the potential to dampen its electability/re-electability, but this CFA situation seems like a 'can't win' for the Government and it may yet prove unspinnable.
BTW looking at the Age 'burning questions' summary, I'm not surprised that "Ms Garrett indicated she would continue to serve as the member for Brunswick." That seat would be an easy gain for the Greens at a by-election and the ALP would I think struggle to ever get it back.
  Carnot Chief Commissioner

Some interesting info on the attempted union takeover of the CFA in the 1980s when John Cain was Premier: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-06-23/earl-victorian-firestorm-sends-shorten-scrambling/7535370
  justapassenger Chief Commissioner

BTW looking at the Age 'burning questions' summary, I'm not surprised that "Ms Garrett indicated she would continue to serve as the member for Brunswick." That seat would be an easy gain for the Greens at a by-election and the ALP would I think struggle to ever get it back.
RedEyeExpress
Perhaps she should jump over to the Greens?
  woodford Chief Commissioner

The following is a message from  the VFBV board to all brigade members,

It just keeps getting worse is the ALP completely stupid

"Dear Members,

On behalf of the VFBV Board and CEO, the following is an update on today legal proceedings.


The VFBV injunction on CFA to prevent furtherance of a CFA/UFU EBA until there had been
consultation on its content that affected the state 60,000 volunteers has been replaced
by a more onerous undertaking by CFA to the Supreme Court.

As you would be aware, on Friday 10th June, VFBV applied and was granted a Supreme Court
Injunction to require the Country Fire Authority (CFA) to enter meaningful consultation
with us on the contents of the proposed CFA-United Firefighters Union (UFU) 2016 Enterprise
Agreement, specifically those parts which may have an impact on CFA Volunteers organisational
arrangements and volunteer operational capacity. Incredibly, as of writing, we are still
yet to receive the actual current version of the Agreement that the Government have tried
to tell everyone fixes all volunteer concerns, despite Government having not formally engaged
in genuine consultation with VFBV on a single occurrence. Whilst the agreement has apparently
been in negotiation with the UFU for over 1,000 days, Government has yet to provide VFBV
a single day to hear and discuss volunteer concerns prior to decisions being made.

Our Supreme Court Injunction was due to expire today, Wednesday June 22.

Following the events of last week, where the Government sacked the nine members of the CFA
Board due to their refusal to approve the agreement (despite the court injunction), and
accepted the resignation of the CFA Chief Executive Officer Lucinda Nolan, we have been
in correspondence with CFA as to how they envisaged to genuinely consult.

Following negotiations between our legal teams, overnight last night we reached agreement
with the CFA on a proposal to not seek an extension of our initial injunction, on the basis
that CFA provide written undertakings to the Supreme Court, which would provide VFBV with
a court supervised process to ensure genuine engagement occurred with the new CFA Board and
CEO. Supreme Court Justice McDonald consented and approved the lifting of the injunction on
the basis that CFA make a legal undertaking supervised by the court to;

1.  On or before the 24 June 2016, the CFA must provide to VFBV for the purposes of
consultation, a copy of the proposed agreement to replace the current 2010 EBA

2.  The CFA Chair & CEO and/or the Board is to meet with VFBV on the 8th July 2016 and at
such further times as are mutually convenient to the parties for the purposes of consultation
and to provide opportunity for volunteer concerns and impacts to be heard and considered

3.  The CFA is not permitted to initiate the EBA approval process prior to the 20th July 2016

4.  And CFA is required to provide VFBV 3 business days notice of its intention to sign or
agree to a new EB on or after the 20th July


At approximately 10:45 this morning, Supreme Court Justice McDonald issued a Court Order
binding CFA to the above agreement. We are told the Court order has the same basic legal
affect and penalties as the injunction, but in addition provides us further assurances.


Whats the difference between an Injunction and a Court Order?

In layman terms, an injunction is a court order NOT to do something, whereas a court order
can also order CFA to DO something.

Shortly following todays court proceedings, the Premier released a Media Release under the
title "Setting the Record Straight on the CFA Dispute" and stating amongst other things;

The Government welcomes the lifting of the Supreme Court injunction.

By only giving half the story, it would appear to be an obvious ploy to spin or mislead
the public over what actually occurred in court today. We believe this approach goes directly
to the Governments credibility. We have attached a copy of the proposed consent orders agreed
last night, that CFA solicitors were required to read out in court this morning in order to
enter them on the record, so you can make your own mind up as to the governments version of
events. The certified Court documents will be available on our website as soon as they are available.

Make no mistake, todays Court order requires CFA to genuinely consult with VFBV and
volunteers, and we may make application to the court at any point if the orders are not
complied with."

volunteer fire fighter for over 30 years,
woodford
  Boss Chief Commissioner

Location: Caulfield Line
woodford

It seems to me that the government is spinning itself into hole so deep they will never recover.

The question which remains to answered by Andrews is why the UFU has so much control over him.
  Boss Chief Commissioner

Location: Caulfield Line
woodford

It seems to me that the government is spinning itself into hole so deep they will never recover.

The question which remains to answered by Andrews is why the UFU has so much control over him.
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
The question which remains to answered by Andrews is why the UFU has so much control over him.
"Boss"
He may be living proof of Henry Kissinger's words that, "when you've got them by the balls, their hearts and minds automatically follow."
  woodford Chief Commissioner

There's a problem when trying to make  a judgment on this story is that NO ONE is telling us the truth. Remember there's a power struggle going on here and with these truth is the first casualty. The EBA appears to have NOT been publicly released so its impossible to  make an independent judgment, and one certainly CANNOT rely on the media to be impartial.

Why anyone would want to be a polictician or a manager is beyond me!

woodford
  davesvline Chief Commissioner

Location: 1983-1998
A volunteer friend of mine stated in light of recent events with the spat with Premier and the debacle they're having with him / state government,  the CFA now stands for-
Cluster F--- Andrews

Next state election, remember the CFA, and Cluster F--Andrews.

I thought that's going to be real nice.

Regards
  kapow Junior Train Controller

There's a problem when trying to make  a judgment on this story is that NO ONE is telling us the truth. Remember there's a power struggle going on here and with these truth is the first casualty. The EBA appears to have NOT been publicly released so its impossible to  make an independent judgment, and one certainly CANNOT rely on the media to be impartial.

Why anyone would want to be a polictician or a manager is beyond me!

woodford
woodford
The UFU published the deal a while back http://http://www.ufuvic.asn.au/bulletin/ufu-bulletin-99-roll-over-the-old-eba-no-thanks/

You are correct that the media have failed to be impartial on this issue, the deal has some problems but media outlets like the Herald Sun really have overplayed this to ridiculous proportions but I guess this isn't a surprise. Also no hiding that the Andrews government has handled this poorly but first term governments notoriously make mistakes and it's how they recover and hopefully learn from it that's important.
  Donald Chief Commissioner

Location: Donald. Duck country.
The Government has now decided that the CFA members cannot campaign at polling booths on Saturday in their CFA uniform or overalls.   Also no CFA vehicles are to be parked nearby.

A bit different 18 months ago when you had MFB members and Ambos handing out ALP how to vote cards at the State election.
  Carnot Chief Commissioner

The Government has now decided that the CFA members cannot campaign at polling booths on Saturday in their CFA uniform or overalls.   Also no CFA vehicles are to be parked nearby.

A bit different 18 months ago when you had MFB members and Ambos handing out ALP how to vote cards at the State election.
Donald
So what if there's an emergency at a country polling booth?

Dan "the Dictator" Andrews really is turning out to be a tinpot fascist.  And it will backfire spectacularly on the ALP on July 2.
  Boss Chief Commissioner

Location: Caulfield Line
The Government has now decided that the CFA members cannot campaign at polling booths on Saturday in their CFA uniform or overalls.   Also no CFA vehicles are to be parked nearby.

A bit different 18 months ago when you had MFB members and Ambos handing out ALP how to vote cards at the State election.
So what if there's an emergency at a country polling booth?

Dan "the Dictator" Andrews really is turning out to be a tinpot fascist.  And it will backfire spectacularly on the ALP on July 2.
Carnot
Seems like one rule for the UFU and a different rule for the CFA Volunteers. I thought Andrews said he would govern for all Victorians.
  Carnot Chief Commissioner

The Government has now decided that the CFA members cannot campaign at polling booths on Saturday in their CFA uniform or overalls.   Also no CFA vehicles are to be parked nearby.

A bit different 18 months ago when you had MFB members and Ambos handing out ALP how to vote cards at the State election.
So what if there's an emergency at a country polling booth?

Dan "the Dictator" Andrews really is turning out to be a tinpot fascist.  And it will backfire spectacularly on the ALP on July 2.
Seems like one rule for the UFU and a different rule for the CFA Volunteers. I thought Andrews said he would govern for all Victorians.
Boss
He is governing on behalf of Trades Hall and Trotskyites aboard the gravy train...

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