Eureka Blog Update

 
  Newcastle Express Chief Commissioner

Poath Junction, while I understand what you are saying, but 4432 was only asking.

At 4432, if I paid in full several years ago, I would have got a refund almost several years ago.

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  Iain Chief Commissioner

Location: Concord, NSW
I think 4432 this is a common story with Eureka, almost all their models have run late due to various difficulties. The reason Ron has not replied to you is that he seems to have run out of excuses - old factories, new factories, almost new but not quite there factories, tools that don't fit, Chinese new year, Ivan coming or going, we've had them all except shipwreck! What a way to run a business.

Iain
  kingfisher Chief Train Controller

I think 4432 this is a common story with Eureka, almost all their models have run late due to various difficulties. The reason Ron has not replied to you is that he seems to have run out of excuses - old factories, new factories, almost new but not quite there factories, tools that don't fit, Chinese new year, Ivan coming or going, we've had them all except shipwreck! What a way to run a business.

Iain
Given their delivery record it's hard to understand why anyone would pre-order from Eureka.
  ianadunn Locomotive Fireman

Yes, as it ran from the time of stack modification (1954?) until repainting to red in 1960 (4002) or 1961 (4001). Sitting in an obviously new Delec, so that dates the pic to about 1957 and the loco still has shutters.

I don't think any 40 class would have been modified with a water cooled turbocharger as early as 1954.

The Southern Pacific was still taking delivery of new Alco locomotives with GE air cooled turbochargers in November 1953, and you might expect such an important modification to be applied to new locomotives first, simply for logistics reasons.

The SP purchased their first Alco locomotives with a water cooled turbocharger in April 1955, so I would expect that the 40 class would have been first modified in late 1955 or early 1956.

My recollection is that Delec still looked pretty new as late as 1962 when I first visited....

I was not ever suggesting that the 40 class didn't operate with transverse stacks and radiator shutters, just that when they worked the Royal Train, they still had longitudinal stacks, and did so for some time thereafter. It would seem to me that the most popular versions would be the Royal Train version and the current incarnation of 4001 as preserved, and neither of these is being offered. Equally the removal of the longitudinal stack green version from the list of available models is disappointing.

M636C
M636C
Looking at the photos in "Green Diesels", all except one of those dated 1955 have longitudinal stacks, while all those dated 1956 have transverse stacks, so it seems safe to assume the modification was made in late 1955-early 1956. In both cases, they all have radiator shutters.
  a6et Minister for Railways

Yes, as it ran from the time of stack modification (1954?) until repainting to red in 1960 (4002) or 1961 (4001). Sitting in an obviously new Delec, so that dates the pic to about 1957 and the loco still has shutters.

I don't think any 40 class would have been modified with a water cooled turbocharger as early as 1954.

The Southern Pacific was still taking delivery of new Alco locomotives with GE air cooled turbochargers in November 1953, and you might expect such an important modification to be applied to new locomotives first, simply for logistics reasons.

The SP purchased their first Alco locomotives with a water cooled turbocharger in April 1955, so I would expect that the 40 class would have been first modified in late 1955 or early 1956.

My recollection is that Delec still looked pretty new as late as 1962 when I first visited....

I was not ever suggesting that the 40 class didn't operate with transverse stacks and radiator shutters, just that when they worked the Royal Train, they still had longitudinal stacks, and did so for some time thereafter. It would seem to me that the most popular versions would be the Royal Train version and the current incarnation of 4001 as preserved, and neither of these is being offered. Equally the removal of the longitudinal stack green version from the list of available models is disappointing.

M636C
Looking at the photos in "Green Diesels", all except one of those dated 1955 have longitudinal stacks, while all those dated 1956 have transverse stacks, so it seems safe to assume the modification was made in late 1955-early 1956. In both cases, they all have radiator shutters.
ianadunn
Ian according to the Eureka site, the early longitudinal stack versions are no longer being made available, at least in the first run, problem is like many I have waited with a fully paid up model for 7 odd years now, no word on when the original types will come, to say disappointed is to say the least.

Surely it would be possible to somehow get around the problem by at least offering them with the stack not glued in place on the green variety with shutters. Would save potential damage to a model trying to refit the stack.
  catchpoint Assistant Commissioner

Location: At the end of a loop
Yes, as it ran from the time of stack modification (1954?) until repainting to red in 1960 (4002) or 1961 (4001). Sitting in an obviously new Delec, so that dates the pic to about 1957 and the loco still has shutters.

I don't think any 40 class would have been modified with a water cooled turbocharger as early as 1954.

The Southern Pacific was still taking delivery of new Alco locomotives with GE air cooled turbochargers in November 1953, and you might expect such an important modification to be applied to new locomotives first, simply for logistics reasons.

The SP purchased their first Alco locomotives with a water cooled turbocharger in April 1955, so I would expect that the 40 class would have been first modified in late 1955 or early 1956.

My recollection is that Delec still looked pretty new as late as 1962 when I first visited....

I was not ever suggesting that the 40 class didn't operate with transverse stacks and radiator shutters, just that when they worked the Royal Train, they still had longitudinal stacks, and did so for some time thereafter. It would seem to me that the most popular versions would be the Royal Train version and the current incarnation of 4001 as preserved, and neither of these is being offered. Equally the removal of the longitudinal stack green version from the list of available models is disappointing.

M636C
Looking at the photos in "Green Diesels", all except one of those dated 1955 have longitudinal stacks, while all those dated 1956 have transverse stacks, so it seems safe to assume the modification was made in late 1955-early 1956. In both cases, they all have radiator shutters.
Ian according to the Eureka site, the early longitudinal stack versions are no longer being made available, at least in the first run, problem is like many I have waited with a fully paid up model for 7 odd years now, no word on when the original types will come, to say disappointed is to say the least.

Surely it would be possible to somehow get around the problem by at least offering them with the stack not glued in place on the green variety with shutters. Would save potential damage to a model trying to refit the stack.
a6et

Perhaps you could ask Eureka yourself, directly this coming weekend (Sat 14th) at the Modelling the Railways of NSW convention at Loftus.

Eureka usually has a card table set up, spruiking its wares and showing off its latest samples.

And before you say you are "not going", then perhaps you could ask somebody you know who is going..... to ask on your behalf.....

Albeit that what your proposing / requesting, sounds like (willing to stand corrected) it would probably incur an alteration to the tooling and an additional delay.....if you are willing to wait....some more...

Regards,

Catchpoint
  a6et Minister for Railways

Yes, as it ran from the time of stack modification (1954?) until repainting to red in 1960 (4002) or 1961 (4001). Sitting in an obviously new Delec, so that dates the pic to about 1957 and the loco still has shutters.

I don't think any 40 class would have been modified with a water cooled turbocharger as early as 1954.

The Southern Pacific was still taking delivery of new Alco locomotives with GE air cooled turbochargers in November 1953, and you might expect such an important modification to be applied to new locomotives first, simply for logistics reasons.

The SP purchased their first Alco locomotives with a water cooled turbocharger in April 1955, so I would expect that the 40 class would have been first modified in late 1955 or early 1956.

My recollection is that Delec still looked pretty new as late as 1962 when I first visited....

I was not ever suggesting that the 40 class didn't operate with transverse stacks and radiator shutters, just that when they worked the Royal Train, they still had longitudinal stacks, and did so for some time thereafter. It would seem to me that the most popular versions would be the Royal Train version and the current incarnation of 4001 as preserved, and neither of these is being offered. Equally the removal of the longitudinal stack green version from the list of available models is disappointing.

M636C
Looking at the photos in "Green Diesels", all except one of those dated 1955 have longitudinal stacks, while all those dated 1956 have transverse stacks, so it seems safe to assume the modification was made in late 1955-early 1956. In both cases, they all have radiator shutters.
Ian according to the Eureka site, the early longitudinal stack versions are no longer being made available, at least in the first run, problem is like many I have waited with a fully paid up model for 7 odd years now, no word on when the original types will come, to say disappointed is to say the least.

Surely it would be possible to somehow get around the problem by at least offering them with the stack not glued in place on the green variety with shutters. Would save potential damage to a model trying to refit the stack.

Perhaps you could ask Eureka yourself, directly this coming weekend (Sat 14th) at the Modelling the Railways of NSW convention at Loftus.

Eureka usually has a card table set up, spruiking its wares and showing off its latest samples.

And before you say you are "not going", then perhaps you could ask somebody you know who is going..... to ask on your behalf.....

Albeit that what your proposing / requesting, sounds like (willing to stand corrected) it would probably incur an alteration to the tooling and an additional delay.....if you are willing to wait....some more...

Regards,

Catchpoint
catchpoint
Sounds reasonable I guess, & yes I'm not going, & I don't know of anyone who would be.

Two things with it though:  I know what he's most likely to say, as I've been down the path in the past.
Secondly, none of the diesels I have seen that has visible stacks usually have them part of the main molding.  Which brings another question regarding the grills, they would likely be inserts, as it would be a bit cheaper than having to do 2 bodies. But who knows anyway.
  catchpoint Assistant Commissioner

Location: At the end of a loop
More 40 class, tool transfer "crystal balling" in the News section of latest AMRM

and a 60 class re-run (news and full page advert)

6029 as preserved and running today, Unsure if any other numbers or types are included in this re-run or when it may eventuate, given comments about still locating tooling in news section

Regards,

Catchpoint
  Fairlight Station Master

Location: Always watching....
What about the forgotten DEB sets!!!
Thats getting almost as bad as the 40 class!!!!
  Poath Junction Chief Commissioner

Location: In front of a computer most of the time.


I noted a 2nd style of private owner coal hopper bucket (right) was on display at hobsons bay.
  Iain Chief Commissioner

Location: Concord, NSW
Ron was at Hobsons Bay and gave a bit of an overview with what is happening. Apparently after the collapse of Sanda Kan there were a number of companies formed by ex SK engineers and he placed work with some of these. Now some of these have failed or not produced what was required. Ron had now got a sort of manager in China who is sorting this out reclaiming tools...etc and bringing project back on-line.

Rob seemed optimistic especially from someone who must have invested considerable sums into tooling that he seems to have no control over.

Cheers

Iain
  gw0071 Deputy Commissioner

The song remains the same
  NSWGRules Locomotive Fireman

The song remains the same
gw0071
Yes unfortunately - Ron's used the ol' "collapse of Sanda Kan ......blah blah blah......" excuse number #748 yet again.  7 years on and the excuses are getting re-birthed. And our story line stays the same....."we ain't got nuthin yet!"  C'mon Ron!
  lkernan Deputy Commissioner

Location: Melbourne
The way I see it, the companies that have their own people monitoring the production in China or who visit often get stuff done.  
Those who rely on the Chinese to get things done on their own find themselves getting pushed back and stuffed around.

I've seen the same thing in other areas as well, it's not exclusive to the model production companies.
  a6et Minister for Railways

The way I see it, the companies that have their own people monitoring the production in China or who visit often get stuff done.  
Those who rely on the Chinese to get things done on their own find themselves getting pushed back and stuffed around.

I've seen the same thing in other areas as well, it's not exclusive to the model production companies.
lkernan
Ron does have fairly frequent visits to China, but like most they can only rely on the information they receive from the factories. I doubt if the factories would allow so called outside monitors to be checking up on them would be really beneficial.

While I & most get a bit sick of the same statements, especially no news  etc, I have always maintained that if the owners go to China, then there is no reason why even a short update cannot be posted on the home page, blog sites on what was found at the factory.
  Newcastle Express Chief Commissioner

7 years on and the excuses are getting re-birthed. And our story line stays the same....."we ain't got nuthin yet!"  C'mon Ron!
NSWGRules
NO ONE SHOULD BE WAITING 7 YEARS - No matter what the product.

And I would (no matter who it is) state "You have failed to deliver your product in a reasonable time frame, therefore I require you to give me a refund immediately, as you have breached the contract of the ETA in a time that this way unreasonable." It is NAME OF COMPANY responsibility to deliver on time."

It is not the manufacturers responsibility, but the company, be it model rail company or not. So in this case, it's Eureka Model's responsibility, NO one else.

Perhaps if more took this option, companies (including the above) will start to listen.
  Dazz Deputy Commissioner

the only issue with demanding your money back, is that if you want the product and there is no alternative available, what are you actually achieving, especially if you just end up buying it once they are eventually released?

I totally agree, 7-8 years to get a product finished really isn't acceptable, but for whatever reasons this is what has happened with the 40 class, and  all I know is that no amount of complaining has made it appear any faster.

As somebody who has 3 units fully paid for, for a long time, I'm not totally happy, but keep looking forward to the day when they actually arrive.
  Newcastle Express Chief Commissioner

the only issue with demanding your money back, is that if you want the product and there is no alternative available, what are you actually achieving
Dazz
I believe you are achieving something. You're saying to company XYZ "Oh no another customer has cancelled his/her order because I/we haven't delivered in a reasonable time - We are way over our ETA. Perhaps us as a company need to lift our game."

PS: I believe the NCR sets have no lighting - even though they are advertised as coming with lighting.
  a6et Minister for Railways

the only issue with demanding your money back, is that if you want the product and there is no alternative available, what are you actually achieving
I believe you are achieving something. You're saying to company XYZ "Oh no another customer has cancelled his/her order because I/we haven't delivered in a reasonable time - We are way over our ETA. Perhaps us as a company need to lift our game."

PS: I believe the NCR sets have no lighting - even though they are advertised as coming with lighting.
Newcastle Express
The original prepaid price applies to those who have ordered such as Dazz along with myself, non sound were $235.00 each & the current advertised after delivery price is shown as $330.00, which is also likely to increase in price, as such it is still a matter of either wait & get it at the original price, cancel & get a refund, & then once its here more than likely pay $350.00 or more for it. I will believe it when it arrives but, with limited model needs these days at least I don't have to budget for one & that's my only positive.

There are so many models coming out these days without items on them which were originally advertised, & not just from Eureka that its not really funny.  In the case of the 40cl for whatever reason Eureka has dropped not just lighting or the like but a full option, rather than 3 options, they are now only offering 2, with option 1 no longer on their order form.

Unfortunately as hobbyists we are just in the lump it or like it mold.
  2LaGrange Train Controller

I believe you are achieving something. You're saying to company XYZ "Oh no another customer has cancelled his/her order because I/we haven't delivered in a reasonable time - We are way over our ETA. Perhaps us as a company need to lift our game."

PS: I believe the NCR sets have no lighting - even though they are advertised as coming with lighting.
Newcastle Express
No all you achieve is getting your money back, and as others have said if you wait until said model eventually arrives your version may be sold out and also you will pay more, much more than the pathetic interest you would have got on that money sitting in the bank over the pre delivery period.
Model Companies don't deliberately delay models, why would they its make's no sense to do so.
Model Companies such as Eureka with their 40 class for example have much more money invested in tooling than any single purchaser of a 40 class so Eureka has a massive incentive there to get the model produced. Saying that Eureka 40 class is an extreme example.
  Just The Tip Junior Train Controller

Location: Danger zone
7 years on and the excuses are getting re-birthed. And our story line stays the same....."we ain't got nuthin yet!"  C'mon Ron!
NO ONE SHOULD BE WAITING 7 YEARS - No matter what the product.

And I would (no matter who it is) state "You have failed to deliver your product in a reasonable time frame, therefore I require you to give me a refund immediately, as you have breached the contract of the ETA in a time that this way unreasonable." It is NAME OF COMPANY responsibility to deliver on time."

It is not the manufacturers responsibility, but the company, be it model rail company or not. So in this case, it's Eureka Model's responsibility, NO one else.

Perhaps if more took this option, companies (including the above) will start to listen.
Newcastle Express
More a waste of time for the manufacturer? Then you run the risk of missing out?
It's been said so many times on this forum - Do it yourself, put your money where your mouth is! And if you have as much money as your mouth is big, then it should be easy.

I await a highly edited reply announcing your model project due in under 12 months.
(Worked out well last time someone did that...)
  comtrain Chief Commissioner

Location: Near Albury Wodonga
The original prepaid price applies to those who have ordered such as Dazz along with myself, non sound were $235.00 each & the current advertised after delivery price is shown as $330.00, which is also likely to increase in price, as such it is still a matter of either wait & get it at the original price, cancel & get a refund, & then once its here more than likely pay $350.00 or more for it. I will believe it when it arrives but, with limited model needs these days at least I don't have to budget for one & that's my only positive.
There are so many models coming out these days without items on them which were originally advertised, & not just from Eureka that its not really funny.  In the case of the 40cl for whatever reason Eureka has dropped not just lighting or the like but a full option, rather than 3 options, they are now only offering 2, with option 1 no longer on their order form.

Unfortunately as hobbyists we are just in the lump it or like it mold.
a6et
Now that's an interesting point Smile  I wonder how many people have cancelled?  I remember one Chinese Importer remarking that Railpage Australia™ only represented less than 5% of his clientele, and although he had no idea how many read the pages, he had learned to ignore the noisy 'minority' who actually post there. (message to me Smile )
It could well be that this manufacturer is hoping people do cancel, and if (when?) the model actually does get produced, he gets to sell them for $380 rather than $235? Thinking this way, he is actually making money while all the pre-buyers are losing as their frozen payments lose value from inflation as the years roll by. Their payments have long ago been used by the importer to produce other models, so the importer does not even have to pay interest on his borrowings. Great system for the importer.
Interestingly I started putting money into an account for the VR K Class from this manufacturer. I got a little interest on it, and after building it up to the advertised price, let it sit. When the price went up, I continued to save in that account. One day a well looked after brass K was  offered to me at $750 and I bought that. I started to reinvest in my account, and when Trainbuilder released his N Class, I only had to add another $300 to purchase that $1350 engine. Their was enough there recently to buy a white metal E Class. Best thing I ever did, and I doubt, if I will even buy that K Class, which also has been coming for about 6 years.
Cheers
Rod
  Dazz Deputy Commissioner

for those who aren't on Facebook.............

"News on the 40 class. At the Table of Knowledge today we were able to see the first test shots of the 40 class bodies --- in fact everything plastic that will be on the models! There are two bodies, for two models --- as delivered, and as altered. They got the thumbs up from all of us. As to when they can be expected, and how much, I didn't ask Ron. No doubt all will be revealed on the Eureka web site. So, it's happening!"
  davesvline Chief Commissioner

Location: 1983-1998
Eureka.

It's something you shout when you really mean "ABOUT F.... NG TIME!!!

The way he's going he might need a Stockade too.  

Regards
  Poath Junction Chief Commissioner

Location: In front of a computer most of the time.
Newsletter #31 has been emailed today, along with order form for the NSWGR MAL, ACS and AB carriages which will be available as individual carriages.

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