Train Vs Truck Colac

 
  fzr560 Chief Train Controller

[quote="Bullucked"][quote=fzr560][quote]According to listing of lx Phelps Road does not have any lx protection at this time. It certainly will after today.[/quote]

So, no stop sign?[/quote]Stop or give way sign, whatever, both mean give way. Maybe we should start testing motorists in the application of the rules.

No, they don't both mean give way. The first one means stop. Once you decide you don't need to obey the sign you are well on the way to the type of carnage we have seen today.

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  mikesyd Chief Commissioner

Location: Lurking
Google Street View (surprised they went down there!!) of the Crossing (which displays as a Satellite view - grrrrr).



Gravel Road, Good visibility when driving North, but when driving South a row of trees obscures the view East until 50metres from the Crossing. Stop Sign is the only "protection".

Somehow I think those trees have a limited life now.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Please see the response received from Vline this evening.  I thank Colin for returning my contact.

13 July 2016



Incident at Pirron Yallock

V/Line can confirm there has been an incident involving a V/Line train and truck at a level crossing at Pirron Yallock on the Warrnambool line.

Emergency services are at the scene, which is about 164 kilometres south west of Melbourne.  

The train involved is the 1:21pm Southern Cross Station to Warrnambool service.

Emergency services are on site with some minor injuries reported.

All services on the Warrnambool line have been suspended until further notice.

Concerned customers should call V/Line on 1800 800 007.

-ends-
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

Update 2050 hours.

The crossing does have STOP signs on both sides.

AGE is now reporting  funding was allocated in last years State Budget to upgrade as a priority 3 dangerous country level crossings of which Phalps Road was one.  Design was completed in December last year, but tragically  7 months later the funded level crossing protection was still not installed 18 months after its announcement .

One would think that once funded an installation could be designed and  completed within 12 monthsmaximum  .  Given this is a standard crossing in the middle of nowhere on a single line  there should be a fairly generic design that can be readied and put to tender within a month of funding being available .
  Bullucked Assistant Commissioner

[quote=fzr560][quote="Bullucked"][quote][quote]According to listing of lx Phelps Road does not have any lx protection at this time. It certainly will after today.[/quote]

So, no stop sign?[/quote]Stop or give way sign, whatever, both mean give way. Maybe we should start testing motorists in the application of the rules.

No, they don't both mean give way. The first one means stop. Once you decide you don't need to obey the sign you are well on the way to the type of carnage we have seen today.[/quote]So, according to you you don't give way? Stop and give way, or Give way both mean give way, it's just what you do before the give way bit....
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
I Google Earthed and Streetview-ed the level crossing too; granted, there's a row of trees obscuring the view when you approach from the north but the track approaching the crossing is straight and flat in both directions. I heard the truck driver is in critical condition which is really too bad but on the other hand it was incredibly lucky we didn't have a repeat of the Kerang disaster.
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
The row of trees look to be on private farmland.

Hard to see them been used as a contributing factor.

V Line/Vic Track would be only reasonable for trees (obscuring the line of sight) approaching level crossing within the railway reserve.
  fzr560 Chief Train Controller

[quote="Bullucked"]
[quote=fzr560][quote][quote][quote]According to listing of lx Phelps Road does not have any lx protection at this time. It certainly will after today.[/quote]

So, no stop sign?[/quote]Stop or give way sign, whatever, both mean give way. Maybe we should start testing motorists in the application of the rules.

No, they don't both mean give way. The first one means stop. Once you decide you don't need to obey the sign you are well on the way to the type of carnage we have seen today.[/quote]So, according to you you don't give way? Stop and give way, or Give way both mean give way, it's just what you do before the give way bit....[/quote]Yeah, stop and don't give way if you like. Me, I'd stop, consider the 300 tonnes coming toward me at 100 km/h and think about Charles Darwin. I recommend you try your theory with the nearest Highway Patrol Officer.
  Duncs Chief Commissioner

Can anyone determine if the train hit the truck, or did the truck hit the train?
  fzr560 Chief Train Controller

Can anyone determine if the train hit the truck, or did the truck hit the train?
Duncs
Reported earlier in this thread that there is damage to the front of the locomotive. Until the ATSB/ROTSI investigation is complete, you will probably have to draw your own conclusions.
  lkernan Deputy Commissioner

Location: Melbourne
Can anyone determine if the train hit the truck, or did the truck hit the train?
Duncs

From the substantial damage to the front of the loco, i'd say the train hit the truck.
(Based on the video from tonight's news that i saw)
  lkernan Deputy Commissioner

Location: Melbourne
With its customary stupidity, Channel 7 led with "V Line train derailed", when the correct terminology would have been something like" Truck hits V Line train."
Valvegear

If they're sticking to the known facts, they're right.  The train did indeed derail.
It's also looking like the truck was in the crossing first, which makes your statement the incorrect one.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Listening to the media today I can't help but get the feeling the finger is starting to be pointed toward V/Line.  The discussion is now around level crossing upgrades, not the facts around a stop sign and a truck driver who could not obey the road rules?  Could we be on the path toward another Kerang?
  woodford Chief Commissioner

Listening to the media today I can't help but get the feeling the finger is starting to be pointed toward V/Line.  The discussion is now around level crossing upgrades, not the facts around a stop sign and a truck driver who could not obey the road rules?  Could we be on the path toward another Kerang?
"bevans"


The media is ONLY interested in controversy. they are NOT there to relay factual information, not even the ABC.

Under similair condiftions as Phalps rd, they have closed level crossings in NE Vic for the areas having reasonable access from both ends of the road. VLine closed two level crossings between Violet Two and Baddaginnie and left Erreys rd road open as it gave access to the other side of the line line for the whole area. Note: Erreys road only got a warning system and boom gates after a fatal accident.

woodford
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
If they're sticking to the known facts, they're right.  The train did indeed derail.

It's also looking like the truck was in the crossing first, which makes your statement the incorrect one.
lkernan
Wrong on both counts.
1. The train did not "derail".  It was forced off the track. There's a big difference.
2. The train has absolute right of way - the truck should not be there and that, as far as I ( and others) are concerned, means the truck hit the train. In fairness, I suppose the correct terminology is, "collided with."

And now, the seemingly inevitable "this crossing has been an accident waiting to happen."  How may years has the crossing been in existence? How many collisions have occurred on it?
  BigShunter Chief Commissioner

Location: St Clair. S.A.
A major accident only just averted.

A bit more info here from the Wimmera Mailtimes / Fairfax site.

http://www.mailtimes.com.au/story/4029444/driver-critical-after-collision-with-train-that-left-18-others-hurt/?cs=2452

This statement sums up the story.

"It's the obligation of anyone travelling along this road to stop and give way to trains,” he said.

The exact cause of the incident is yet to be determined and the investigation is ongoing, however Sergeant Shane Howard said it appeared the semi-trailer had driven across in front of the Melbourne-Warrnambool passenger train.

BigShunter.
  SinickleBird Chief Train Controller

Location: Qantas Club at Mudgee International Airport
Unfortunately, media portrayal is invariably that the railway is at fault - inadequate protection (flashing lights are regularly ignored and boom gates get driven through in any case), train should give way etc etc.



I feel for the truck driver; I also feel for the train driver who was put in a situation where he/she had to try to stop a heavy load travelling at speed to minimize damage to an obstruction that should not have been there.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line

I feel for the truck driver; I also feel for the train driver who was put in a situation where he/she had to try to stop a heavy load travelling at speed to minimize damage to an obstruction that should not have been there.
SinickleBird

As nobody died it's fair game to comment that I DON'T feel for the truck driver who clearly wasn't paying attention to the road or the rail line.

As far as the trees go...they've been cleared from line of sight right along the Warrnambool line at least 5 years ago, so any other trees that may be seen would be on private property.

Mike.
  Trainplanner Chief Commissioner

Location: Along the Line
Time to take a deep breath.   There will as is always the case be a number of investigations no doubt, including the ATSB.   It is indeed extremely fortunate that no one was killed and because of that this will enable drivers of both the train and the truck to give statements etc along with downloads of whatever data loggers are available on the truck plus the data recorder on the locomotive.   I share Kuldalai's concern that what appears to be a relatively straightforward level crossing upgrade project seems to have taken a long time to implement so again as evidenced elsewhere have cuts to staff etc as a result of the reduction in V/Line's budget also been a contributing factor.

It maybe ok to say the funding for the level crossing upgrade program was there but if you've cut staff and also lost a lot of expertise then its going to impact.    Whilst the ATSB and others do not involve their accident investigation into those matters it doesn't stop Government pursuing some form of investigation on that aspect particularly as it could continue to impact the overall performance of the organization.  (This is not a criticism of V/Line or the current administration).
  BigShunter Chief Commissioner

Location: St Clair. S.A.

I feel for the truck driver; I also feel for the train driver who was put in a situation where he/she had to try to stop a heavy load travelling at speed to minimize damage to an obstruction that should not have been there.
As nobody died it's fair game to comment that I DON'T feel for the truck driver who clearly wasn't paying attention to the road or the rail line.

As far as the trees go...they've been cleared from line of sight right along the Warrnambool line at least 5 years ago, so any other trees that may be seen would be on private property.

Mike.
The Vinelander

Gidday Mike, if go into the link above that I included in my post, there is a picture that clearly shows that the trees are within the road easement, the stop signs are clearly visible as is the signage that says " look for trains " and railway crossing.
Whether there are trees present or not is totally irrelevant, the stop sign says it all and your about to cross a railway line.

BigShunter.
  historian Deputy Commissioner

Wait for the ATSB/TSV report. We don't know yet if the driver stopped at the level crossing or not.

However, there are a couple of things we do know.

Phelps Rd crosses the railway line at an angle of about 30 or 40 degrees from a right angle. There have been several heavy road vehicle/train accidents over the last decade or so in Victoria at similar level crossings. The first I am aware of was Saleyards Rd, Benalla, in October 2002 in which the driver, fireman, and visitor on the locomotive were killed and K183 wrecked. More recently, there was a collision at Lake Charm in February 2014. There are probably others.

In all these cases, but particularly the last one, the TSV investigator identified the design of the tractor cab as a causal factor. Simply put, the view from the driver's seat of a heavy road tractor to the left is extremely restricted. In particular, it is very hard to see things to the left and rear. Typically, the only window is in the left hand door, this is a long way across the cab from the driver's position, and is mostly forward of the driver.

Have a read of the Lake Charm report for a good discussion of the issues (http://www.atsb.gov.au/media/5770742/ro-2014-016_final-report.pdf) In particular, read the discussion of viewing angles at p13. Then consider how much blame you could fairly ascribe to the driver at Lake Charm.

The truck driver from the current accident is in a critical condition. Irrespective of whether he was at fault, I hope he survives, and doesn't have ongoing health issues.
  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
Media now stating there will be an e quiet I to the time it has taken to deliver the crossing when the funding had already been provided. Perhaps the money has been expensed on other projects or lunches ?

Seriously the media will try and protect the perpetrator and lead the victims to fend for theMselves what a strange culture we have here.
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

Listening to the media today I can't help but get the feeling the finger is starting to be pointed toward V/Line.  The discussion is now around level crossing upgrades, not the facts around a stop sign and a truck driver who could not obey the road rules?  Could we be on the path toward another Kerang?
bevans
How do you know that the truck did not stop at the STOP sign ?  it is well possible to Stop then get caught on the crossing with a slow truck accelerating from a dead halt  .  

The question to be answered is by either VLP or Victrack is why does it take 18 months from funding to install a set of boom barriers ?  It is hardly the first installation in the State .  If we  can now install 3 by the end of  2016, and  a further 14 by April 2017  why has it taken so long for us to address the 3  most dangerous lx which were funded and announced very early in 2015  ?  Failure to treat as priority in the case of  VLP / Victrack has now cost a very serious incident with totally avoidable personal injury, and a further cost of  $  m  in repairs to track and rollingstock .
  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
Stop means stop and then give way and then proceed when it is safe to do so.
  dthead Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Listening to the media today I can't help but get the feeling the finger is starting to be pointed toward V/Line.  The discussion is now around level crossing upgrades, not the facts around a stop sign and a truck driver who could not obey the road rules?  Could we be on the path toward another Kerang?
How do you know that the truck did not stop at the STOP sign ?  it is well possible to Stop then get caught on the crossing with a slow truck accelerating from a dead halt  .  

The question to be answered is by either VLP or Victrack is why does it take 18 months from funding to install a set of boom barriers ?  It is hardly the first installation in the State .  If we  can now install 3 by the end of  2016, and  a further 14 by April 2017  why has it taken so long for us to address the 3  most dangerous lx which were funded and announced very early in 2015  ?  Failure to treat as priority in the case of  VLP / Victrack has now cost a very serious incident with totally avoidable personal injury, and a further cost of  $  m  in repairs to track and rollingstock .
kuldalai

I do not think the cause of this  incident is political, so respectfully disagree with several people. That is diverting blame before we know WHAT caused this to occur. For all we know it could have happend with bells and booms !

So I look forward to the report on this. Some say the truck stopped, but if hit by the train did  he then try to beat the train? did get get stuck and the train came?  Speculation onlt the truck driver and the train driver can assist.

And while the train  did hit the truck, it was the truck that placed itself into that position to cause it.

Regards,
David Head

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