Sky rail for Pakenham Cranbourne line outlined

 
Topic moved from News by bevans on 13 Jan 2016 16:51
  Connex Station Master

I really don't like the idea of Skyrail. When i was on the way back from Melbourne to Pakenham on Comeng carriage 387M on June 12th, I saw a poster on someones else that said "No Skyrail" at around Murrumbeena.
Connex
So you don't like skyrail just because of a poster some idiot put up?
"TheMetman"

No, I've disliked ever since I first heard about it. I even made pervasive speech on it at secondary school.

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  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
The reality Is the current State Government Is going to ram this project through, regardless of who likes It or not.

The Government has the power to bypass all the usual bureaucratic process.

The State Government has more power than the Commonwealth Government and can easily override/rule Local Government.
  woodford Chief Commissioner

The reality Is the current State Government Is going to ram this project through, regardless of who likes It or not.

The Government has the power to bypass all the usual bureaucratic process.

The State Government has more power than the Commonwealth Government and can easily override/rule Local Government.
Nightfire

If governments listened to everyone that complained about major projects we would still be living in the open and hunting our own food with stone tools. Thats why governments have power.

Also in Australia the state governments have responibilty for the railways thats why they have more power under these particular circumstances. All the federal government can do is with hold funds.

woodford
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
I can't believe the "You Deserve to Know More" website is still in operation and that people believe it presents a viable solution.  Quick background, the "people" who are promoting this site believe that the line can be put in cut-n-cover trenches covered with chequered concrete decks.  While it's being constructed they think they can operate a single line between Oakleigh & Caulfield. This site is full of quite an amount of half-truths or no-truths.

See for yourself: http://www.noskyrail.net/you-deserve-to-know-more/you-deserve-to-know-more
The NoSkyrail Facebook page can be rather entertaining to read from time to time.

Posters are having a big sook about trimming and removal of trees along the railway corridor In the Murrumbeena area (If the got their trench wish all trees would have to go, but they don't accept this)

Posters all get their hopes up about some pie In the sky challenge against the State Government, only to see It fail, than they slam the people who lead It to fail.

The Idea of cut-n-cover trenches covered with chequered concrete decks would have to have a rather bazar acoustic effect when a heavy freight train Is powering along (unlikely they have studied this one)

There Is no chance of double stacked container trains running along the electrified suburban lines through Caulfield nor the likes of Finders Street Station !

Also It Is pointless answering any of their fear factor claims as their admin just deletes any message that goes against their philosophy and they can get Into personal attacks.

But hey It's their page, they can do as they please !
Nightfire
That kind of thing shows that they are just looking for any reason to derail the project no matter how uninformed it is.
  ZH836301 Chief Commissioner

Location: BleakCity
Their krappy site is down.

Bunch of simpletons.
  Adogs Chief Train Controller

Their krappy site is down.

Bunch of simpletons.
ZH836301

Cash from the Liberals to pay for web hosting dried up after the election? (joking) (maybe).
  jdekorte Deputy Commissioner

Location: Near Caulfield Station
Their krappy site is down.

Bunch of simpletons.

Cash from the Liberals to pay for web hosting dried up after the election? (joking) (maybe).
Adogs
Sorry to disappoint you but the website appears to be alive & well...not that their posturing is going to achieve much now since major construction starts next month. I've heard that the Murrumbeena station footbridge will be gone by the end of August.
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
I assume the construction site security will be extremely tight 24 hours a day.

To eliminate the possibility of protesters getting I the way of the works.
  Connex Station Master

I'm shocked that nothing is being done to save the buildings at Carnegie, Murrmbenna, and Clayton. Disgraceful destruction to heritage.
  TheMeddlingMonk Deputy Commissioner

Location: The Time Vortex near Melbourne, Australia
I'm shocked that nothing is being done to save the buildings at Carnegie, Murrmbenna, and Clayton. Disgraceful destruction to heritage.
Connex
With the exception of Clayton station, none of the buildings are heritage-listed. The heritage-listed building at Clayton is to be preserved and relocated.
  Adogs Chief Train Controller

I'm shocked that nothing is being done to save the buildings at Carnegie, Murrmbenna, and Clayton. Disgraceful destruction to heritage.
Connex

Carnegie and Murrumbeena station buildings aren't really of particular heritage value.  Clayton station building, which has heritage listing, is being retained (although moved).

Secondly though - you understand that the under-road option being touted by the NoSkyRailers would also have obliterated them, right?

The station that springs to mind where heritage issues are likely to make things difficult to achieve a good outcome is Mentone.  Possibly also Chelt.
  Connex Station Master

I wasn't aware of Clayton being heritage listed. There's nothing mentioning its heritage listed at the actual station. I'm starting a petition to save the buildings at Carnegie & Murrumbeena. I think it's worth a shot.
  jdekorte Deputy Commissioner

Location: Near Caulfield Station
I wasn't aware of Clayton being heritage listed. There's nothing mentioning its heritage listed at the actual station. I'm starting a petition to save the buildings at Carnegie & Murrumbeena. I think it's worth a shot.
Connex
LXRA applied for a permit to Heritage Victoria to relocate the Platform 2 building of Clayton within the station precinct as part of the CD9 project. This information was freely available on the LXRA webpage for the Clayton Road Level Crossing removal: http://levelcrossings.vic.gov.au/crossings/clayton-road-clayton.  If you run a search through the Victorian Heritage Council database for Clayton Station, you will find quite an extensive description on the significance of the building: http://vhd.heritagecouncil.vic.gov.au/places/293

Murrumbeena & Carnegie are also listed on the register but are not as historically significant given that they're of the same post-war design - the current buildings for both were built in 1922 even through the platforms appear to be original.  You can run a search for them in the database and read the (identical) information for both.  The best case scenario is that the buildings can be preserved in some form and relocated somewhere else. VicTrack do have a program for repurposing old railway material including station buildings for Heritage rail operators to use.  Whatever construction method was to have been chosen, those station buildings would've been gone.  Even the Liberals didn't see them as 'fit for purpose' when they were proposing their own project.
  Adogs Chief Train Controller

I wasn't aware of Clayton being heritage listed. There's nothing mentioning its heritage listed at the actual station. I'm starting a petition to save the buildings at Carnegie & Murrumbeena. I think it's worth a shot.
Connex

From memory when I lived in Clayton South and used the station quite a bit, there is a sign up somewhere on the south side of the building with historical information.  It's a while since I've been there though.

A petition is all well and good, but what are you actually proposing?  The only way to keep the station buildings intact in the place they are now, would be to not separate the crossings at all.

Both sides of the argument want the crossings gone, the difference (at least on paper) is just in the method.  So one way or the other, the buildings are goners.  And as said previously, putting the crossing underground as per the NoSkyRailers wishes would make a significantly bigger change to the physical site.  

Best case, someone wants the buildings elsewhere, as per old Walhalla being recycled to Hartwell.  Or potentially shift the building to a tourist railway.  You'd want to be quick though, it's all going to happen pretty quickly from here.
  Connex Station Master

What about the Platform 1 building at Clayton?

BTW, My petition will see all three station buildings being relocated. Thanks for helping me.

EDIT: Petition started. https://www.change.org/p/heritage-council-of-victoria-save-historic-stations-at-carnegie-murrumbeena-clayton-from-the-wrecking-crew
  ZH836301 Chief Commissioner

Location: BleakCity
I'm shocked that nothing is being done to save the buildings at Carnegie, Murrmbenna, and Clayton. Disgraceful destruction to heritage.
Connex
They have no heritage value.
  jdekorte Deputy Commissioner

Location: Near Caulfield Station
What about the Platform 1 building at Clayton?
Connex
The Platform 1 building has been extensively altered over the years. Whatever heritage value it might've had has probably been lost. It's unfortunate that the Platform 1 shelter was burnt down quite a number of years ago but it was never replaced - perhaps they saw that the station would eventually go anyway. The Platform 2 building has not really been altered which means it can be moved elsewhere.
  ZH836301 Chief Commissioner

Location: BleakCity
Some people don't seem to realise historical preservation is not simply about keeping everything that is old.

If you have 15 examples of the same construction you save the most unaltered and ditch the rest.
  stooge spark Train Controller

First post here, one of the arguments  I have heard against skyrail is people peering down onto the backyards. However, this would still be better than right now, where, on a train travel home, seen a couple of houses in Hughesdale, where I could see into the house themselves! And besides, there will probably be some screens on either side for privacy.
  jdekorte Deputy Commissioner

Location: Near Caulfield Station
First post here, one of the arguments  I have heard against skyrail is people peering down onto the backyards. However, this would still be better than right now, where, on a train travel home, seen a couple of houses in Hughesdale, where I could see into the house themselves! And besides, there will probably be some screens on either side for privacy.
stooge spark
Yes, added to the fact that any glimpse of a backyard will be a half-second long due to the speed of the train.

Depending on which forum you trawl, there are a variety of myths or half-myths coming from anti-skyrail people. Twitter seems to accommodate some interesting views, as does the No Skyrail Facebook page. People on Twitter just seem to be repetitive, like Mr David "no one voted for skyrail" Davis and others:

#skyrail: no business case, options analysis, EES, comprehensive noise study, No meaningful community consultation #springst—  July 19, 2016

They are welcome to their opinions of course, but since construction activities are accelerating, I don't think there's much they can do. At least the Andrews Government, despite some misgivings, is actually doing something and starting projects within a four-year term.
  ozfreight Chief Train Controller

Location: hawthorn 3122
I can't believe the "You Deserve to Know More" website is still in operation and that people believe it presents a viable solution.  Quick background, the "people" who are promoting this site believe that the line can be put in cut-n-cover trenches covered with chequered concrete decks.  While it's being constructed they think they can operate a single line between Oakleigh & Caulfield. This site is full of quite an amount of half-truths or no-truths.

See for yourself: http://www.noskyrail.net/you-deserve-to-know-more/you-deserve-to-know-more
The NoSkyrail Facebook page can be rather entertaining to read from time to time.

Posters are having a big sook about trimming and removal of trees along the railway corridor In the Murrumbeena area (If the got their trench wish all trees would have to go, but they don't accept this)

Posters all get their hopes up about some pie In the sky challenge against the State Government, only to see It fail, than they slam the people who lead It to fail.

The Idea of cut-n-cover trenches covered with chequered concrete decks would have to have a rather bazar acoustic effect when a heavy freight train Is powering along (unlikely they have studied this one)

There Is no chance of double stacked container trains running along the electrified suburban lines through Caulfield nor the likes of Finders Street Station !

Also It Is pointless answering any of their fear factor claims as their admin just deletes any message that goes against their philosophy and they can get Into personal attacks.

But hey It's their page, they can do as they please !
That kind of thing shows that they are just looking for any reason to derail the project no matter how uninformed it is.
railblogger
the best one I came across was from a lady who claimed that 80.000t freight trains would pass by her property every night!
  ARodH Chief Train Controller

Location: East Oakleigh, Vic
the best one I came across was from a lady who claimed that 80.000t freight trains would pass by her property every night!
ozfreight
If one of them was run, it wouldn't be daily, more like once a year.
  bomberswarm2 Locomotive Driver

Thinking of doing some constructive vandalism, go to the area at night and cover all the anti sky rail posters with Pro Donald Trump posters.
  ARodH Chief Train Controller

Location: East Oakleigh, Vic
What even the house at Edithvale? I too can think of some constructive vandalism ideas, doing them on another hand is something else.
  bomberswarm2 Locomotive Driver

What even the house at Edithvale? I too can think of some constructive vandalism ideas, doing them on another hand is something else.
ARodH

all the posters overhang public property, its legal

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