Fears for Melbourne's west as huge growth outpaces infrastructure

 
Topic moved from News by bevans on 25 Jul 2016 11:44
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Calling for more stations on the RRL link to be brought forward as the population is growing at such a rate.  This is likely to slow Geelong transit times even more with overtaking capability on the network between West Werribee and Deer Park Junction?

Of those who have read the network development plan what are the plans for new stations on the existing RRL network?  Is there scope to create the connection to Werribee and run trains via both paths from the RRL lines north and east?

Fears for Melbourne's west as huge growth outpaces infrastructure

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  Watson374 Chief Commissioner

Location: Fully reclined at the pointy end.
They don't need more stations. They need:
  1. More train frequency. This reduces peak overcrowding and increases off-peak mobility.
  2. More feeder buses. This improves local circulation.
  3. More local community facilities. This prevents Wyndham from becoming a 'dormitory town', in turn reducing the need for people to commute all the way into the City. The council needs to jump onto this immediately.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
They don't need more stations. They need:
  1. More train frequency. This reduces peak overcrowding and increases off-peak mobility.
  2. More feeder buses. This improves local circulation.
  3. More local community facilities. This prevents Wyndham from becoming a 'dormitory town', in turn reducing the need for people to commute all the way into the City. The council needs to jump onto this immediately.
Watson374
I was going to continue the discussion about train capacity on the Sydney metro thread but I was concerned about the possibility of needing chemotherapy afterwards Wink

The opportunity for Melbourne passed some years ago when they could have installed high capacity signalling but they instead appear to have opted for ripping seats out of the trains. The other issue is that train travel times are not competitive with driving - especially given the very long distances you need to sometimes cover from the outer east or north to the city or elsewhere. Some years ago I was living inner east but commuting to Dandenong and Berwick for work - the train wasn't anywhere near as fast as driving, particularly in the counter-peak direction.

I also hear what you're saying about missing Sydney - for some reason I think large peak hour crowds get handled better there and frankly Melbourne's (mostly) 19th century infrastructure just doesn't cope. Adding 1 million plus new residents in the space of 14 years also hasn't helped.
  Watson374 Chief Commissioner

Location: Fully reclined at the pointy end.
They don't need more stations. They need:
  1. More train frequency. This reduces peak overcrowding and increases off-peak mobility.
  2. More feeder buses. This improves local circulation.
  3. More local community facilities. This prevents Wyndham from becoming a 'dormitory town', in turn reducing the need for people to commute all the way into the City. The council needs to jump onto this immediately.
I was going to continue the discussion about train capacity on the Sydney metro thread but I was concerned about the possibility of needing chemotherapy afterwards Wink

The opportunity for Melbourne passed some years ago when they could have installed high capacity signalling but they instead appear to have opted for ripping seats out of the trains. The other issue is that train travel times are not competitive with driving - especially given the very long distances you need to sometimes cover from the outer east or north to the city or elsewhere. Some years ago I was living inner east but commuting to Dandenong and Berwick for work - the train wasn't anywhere near as fast as driving, particularly in the counter-peak direction.

I also hear what you're saying about missing Sydney - for some reason I think large peak hour crowds get handled better there and frankly Melbourne's (mostly) 19th century infrastructure just doesn't cope. Adding 1 million plus new residents in the space of 14 years also hasn't helped.
don_dunstan
I told you the chemotherapy didn't work! In addition to the previously mentioned super-foods and healing waves, I've also since adopted a caveman diet and joined a neo-pagan cult.

I agree with everything you've said, except about reverse-peak commuting. I'm now a veteran of Flinders Street to Moonee Ponds and Flinders Street to Box Hill, and it isn't that bad — even though I make endless jokes about "Cancelburn" trains.

What does suck enormously is the cross-town commute. I have friends who have to do mind-bogglingly stupid commutes such as Vermont South to Bundoora, which is both in the peak direction and damn near impossible to do by public transport, now that we don't have the railway link between the Clifton Hill group and the 75 tram.

Another great example was Macleod to Werribee, but I think he gave up and crashed with a mate for the five weeks he was posted there.

The word we're looking for, I think, is cooked.
  Heihachi_73 Chief Commissioner

Location: Terminating at Ringwood
Sounds just like those NLA articles from the turn of last century. Shows you how much has changed regarding public transport in Melbourne over a hundred years.
  ZH836301 Chief Commissioner

Location: BleakCity
Great, add more stations and turn it into the Werribee line, which was bypassed because...
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
The word we're looking for, I think, is cooked.
Watson374
There are certainly sections of the network that work better than others but Melbourne badly needs something put in place like a light rail that follows the old Outer-Circle reservation (now-days quite an Inner-Circle really!), potentially from Murumbeena through to Ashburton, Camberwell East, East Kew, Alphington and all the way to Parkville like it used to. It would mean that people could interchange between the major trunk lines without having to go all the way into the city - thinking like this is probably too much to expect from the government though and you could expect the NIMBYism to be enormous from people in places like Kew.

Melbourne is getting too crowded, that's the bottom line, and the strain on services and amenity is starting to show.
  Carnot Chief Commissioner

The word we're looking for, I think, is cooked.
There are certainly sections of the network that work better than others but Melbourne badly needs something put in place like a light rail that follows the old Outer-Circle reservation (now-days quite an Inner-Circle really!), potentially from Murumbeena through to Ashburton, Camberwell East, East Kew, Alphington and all the way to Parkville like it used to. It would mean that people could interchange between the major trunk lines without having to go all the way into the city - thinking like this is probably too much to expect from the government though and you could expect the NIMBYism to be enormous from people in places like Kew.

Melbourne is getting too crowded, that's the bottom line, and the strain on services and amenity is starting to show.
don_dunstan
Nah.  Go the whole hog and build a Skyrail along there to really ruffle some feathers.  And run a spur line all the way along Canterbury Rd from Camberwell and down Boronia Rd to Wantirna.

Back on topic (Western burbs) - just build gigantic satellite cities with interchange train stations along the E6 Outer Ring Rd and Railway at places like Manor (Geelong Line), Rockbank (Melton/Ballarat Line), Diggers Rest (Bendigo/Sunbury Line), and Beveridge (Seymour Line).  And make provision for a connection to future Melb Airport Line from Bulla.
  Watson374 Chief Commissioner

Location: Fully reclined at the pointy end.
The word we're looking for, I think, is cooked.
There are certainly sections of the network that work better than others but Melbourne badly needs something put in place like a light rail that follows the old Outer-Circle reservation (now-days quite an Inner-Circle really!), potentially from Murumbeena through to Ashburton, Camberwell East, East Kew, Alphington and all the way to Parkville like it used to. It would mean that people could interchange between the major trunk lines without having to go all the way into the city - thinking like this is probably too much to expect from the government though and you could expect the NIMBYism to be enormous from people in places like Kew.

Melbourne is getting too crowded, that's the bottom line, and the strain on services and amenity is starting to show.
Nah.  Go the whole hog and build a Skyrail along there to really ruffle some feathers.  And run a spur line all the way along Canterbury Rd from Camberwell and down Boronia Rd to Wantirna.

Back on topic (Western burbs) - just build gigantic satellite cities with interchange train stations along the E6 Outer Ring Rd and Railway at places like Manor (Geelong Line), Rockbank (Melton/Ballarat Line), Diggers Rest (Bendigo/Sunbury Line), and Beveridge (Seymour Line).  And make provision for a connection to future Melb Airport Line from Bulla.
Carnot
The word we're looking for, I think, is polycentricity.
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

This is a condensation of what the public sees as Transport  infrastructure issues to be addressed .  PTV / Governemnt have to have their input on those public suggestions yet .  If you dig into the documents more fully the suggestion is to  electrify the RRL to Wyndamvale and quadruplicate  Sunshine - Robinsons Road - Wyndam Vale so VLP trains can run express past Metro sparks serving out to Wyndamvale .  There is also the suggestion of a dedicated new high speed line to Geelong altogether .
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
This is a condensation of what the public sees as Transport  infrastructure issues to be addressed .  PTV / Governemnt have to have their input on those public suggestions yet .  If you dig into the documents more fully the suggestion is to  electrify the RRL to Wyndamvale and quadruplicate  Sunshine - Robinsons Road - Wyndam Vale so VLP trains can run express past Metro sparks serving out to Wyndamvale .  There is also the suggestion of a dedicated new high speed line to Geelong altogether .
kuldalai
If the RRL to Wyndam Vale gets quaded, a new pair of express V/Line tracks should be built down the powerline transmission corridor from Ravenhall, South West towards Davis Road (West of Tarneit) this cutting out some of that silly Tarneit dogleg.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
This is a condensation of what the public sees as Transport  infrastructure issues to be addressed .  PTV / Governemnt have to have their input on those public suggestions yet .  If you dig into the documents more fully the suggestion is to  electrify the RRL to Wyndamvale and quadruplicate  Sunshine - Robinsons Road - Wyndam Vale so VLP trains can run express past Metro sparks serving out to Wyndamvale .  There is also the suggestion of a dedicated new high speed line to Geelong altogether .
If the RRL to Wyndam Vale gets quaded, a new pair of express V/Line tracks should be built down the powerline transmission corridor from Ravenhall, South West towards Davis Road (West of Tarneit) this cutting out some of that silly Tarneit dogleg.
Nightfire
When you look at it on a map it simply doesn't make any sense why they did it that way - other than to provide a new suburban service to Tarneit.
  melbtrip Chief Commissioner

Location: Annoying Orange
This is a condensation of what the public sees as Transport  infrastructure issues to be addressed .  PTV / Governemnt have to have their input on those public suggestions yet .  If you dig into the documents more fully the suggestion is to  electrify the RRL to Wyndamvale and quadruplicate  Sunshine - Robinsons Road - Wyndam Vale so VLP trains can run express past Metro sparks serving out to Wyndamvale .  There is also the suggestion of a dedicated new high speed line to Geelong altogether .
If the RRL to Wyndam Vale gets quaded, a new pair of express V/Line tracks should be built down the powerline transmission corridor from Ravenhall, South West towards Davis Road (West of Tarneit) this cutting out some of that silly Tarneit dogleg.
Nightfire
what is need is the following:

  • Electrification of the Geelong so the Geelong train can run via Sunshine or Werribee.
  • High-capacity electrified rolling stock
  Heihachi_73 Chief Commissioner

Location: Terminating at Ringwood
Agree with Carnot, services are downright pathetic on Canterbury Rd regardless of which end you're at (the 285 takes the cake, although 679 and 742 aren't much better). I suppose because there are three railway stations nearby the road, including Chatham, it doesn't need any additional services anywhere else. Nearly every bus is north-south besides the 765 and 679.
  Altona Loopy Station Master

The RRL has had a massive affect on Werribee Metro services. I was one of only 15 passengers in my carriage who boarded the 7.18 City service on 8/8 a far cry from pre RRL days. Williams Landing, supporting new residential areas to the north and Point Cook to the south is now the most used station in the Wyndham metro area. Without RRL the Werribee metro services wouldn't cope in peak hours.

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