V-Set replacement contract announced

 
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
Agree.  Like I said, give the customer what they want or suffer the consequences.

Bugger what happens overseas.

There is no point in installing fold down tables in a commuter train without any meal service.  

Long distance regional trains such as the XPT and Explorer are a different matter.
Transtopic
When the customer is the taxpayer, not commuter. When the commuter actually pays for the service they can be more demanding.

Ignore OS practices at our peril.

So the only thing that ever goes on a table is food?

Agree, and why their (XPT) seats need to be reversible!

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  theanimal Chief Commissioner



The fixed seats offer so much more flexibility than the fixed seats.  
Would you care to explain this missive?
  Jim K Train Controller

Location: Well west of the Great Divide in NSW but not as far as South Australia
Even if its based upon the oscar train, the internal layout will be different.  When billionaires order a private 737 jet, it doesn't come with 170 economy seats.  The plane is the same, but the internal layout isn't.
From a technical perspective, the OScar is a very good train.  Fully capable of service speeds of 160, and it runs in service up to 130.
The only downsides are with regards to internal layout, which are easily fixed.
... and can't travel west of Springwood
My understanding is that the trains will be slightly narrower than the OSCARs to fit within the loading gauge west of Springwood (like the V sets).  It shouldn't be assumed that it will be an internally modified design within the existing OSCAR body shell.  Although it may look like an OSCAR, I suspect that it will be a completely different train.
Transtopic
According to the Government the new train is apparently an 'off-the-shelf' from Sth Korea. So if that is the case, it will have nothing to do with any current NSW train.
  tazzer96 Deputy Commissioner

When I have travelled in Germany on the ICE trains and France on the Euro, seats were facing the direction of travel. They were comfortable, usb provided and had tray tables. I'm not sure why you have such a problem with what is considered to be the best in the world? The argument that the best systems have fixed seating isn't correct. Visit http://www.seat61.com where you can check out seating diagrams for trains around the world.

I would argue that the fixed seating option is pushed by organisations seeking second best.
thopkins
You are comparing two different things, apples to BBQ ribs different.   Does the french RER or german IC or regional express have that?  Those two are comparable to the new NSW trains.   And they face the direction of travel because they employ someone to spin them around at the end of the journey.
  ANR Assistant Commissioner

I took an Oscar train yesterday along a suburban route and wondered how much thought went into the design and development of the V-set compared to an Oscar. Was the V-set design borrowed from anywhere overseas? Interested to know!

Sydney Trains or whatever it calls itself needs to start with a blank sheet of paper. It needs to ask the paying pax what they want. Nobody wants to lose a Vset to an inferior product, rather, it should be an improvement over it.

An Oscar with a new seating plan is a joke.

To increase use of public transport, you need to provide a decent product.
  tazzer96 Deputy Commissioner

No, V-set was one of the first successfull double decked trains in the world.

Anyway back then, everything was australian designed and built.
  nswtrains Chief Commissioner

No, V-set was one of the first successfull double decked trains in the world.

Anyway back then, everything was australian designed and built.
tazzer96
The first powered double deckers in the world were actually the 4 prototypes built by Tullochs based on their double deck trailer design. I believe the Germans had loco hauled double deckers prior to us. The Americans had double deckers also but they were of a galley design and not a true double deck and they were used in push/pull services.

The new design of NSW IC trains will be totally adequate for the traffic on offer, which is more of a high density commuter type service. I always thought a modified OSCAR was the go. The bigger doors will definitely reduce dwell times compared to the V sets with their totally inadequate doorways.

The V sets were probably over kill when they were introduced. The authorities were still thinking country services when the V sets were designed. It is amazing the number of persons who refer to V set services as country service when they do not really go anywhere near the country.
  tazzer96 Deputy Commissioner

The v-sets did use to go to bowenfels (158km) and currently go to newcastle (170km).  Its not a country service for an australian, but it is a country service for a european.  There are also a few V-sets that form part of proper country services.  (form coach connections at broadmeadow and lithgow)

I meant to say first successful double decked MU trains.  Definitely a few loco hauled ones out there.

The door: train length ratio has also increased, along with the door size.
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
The V-sets are no longer suitable for the traffic on offer to the Central Coast or Blue Mountains, however if there were wires to Canberra, I think they would be in their element.
  tazzer96 Deputy Commissioner

The V-sets are no longer suitable for the traffic on offer to the Central Coast or Blue Mountains, however if there were wires to Canberra, I think they would be in their element.
RTT_Rules
Not without some serious refit to at least one of the carriages in a set so anyone with a disability can use them.  Once any form of modification has to be done, its not worth it.  The line to canberra also has some decent sections of line speed greater than the 115km/h the v-sets can operate to, so even with the better acceleration, it may not be faster than the xplorers.

In the short term, they could be used on the cumberland line, central coast short runs. Or use a 3-car unit on the carlingford line or lidcombe-liverpool (via mian south) short runs.
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
The V-sets are no longer suitable for the traffic on offer to the Central Coast or Blue Mountains, however if there were wires to Canberra, I think they would be in their element.
Not without some serious refit to at least one of the carriages in a set so anyone with a disability can use them.  Once any form of modification has to be done, its not worth it.  The line to canberra also has some decent sections of line speed greater than the 115km/h the v-sets can operate to, so even with the better acceleration, it may not be faster than the xplorers.

In the short term, they could be used on the cumberland line, central coast short runs. Or use a 3-car unit on the carlingford line or lidcombe-liverpool (via mian south) short runs.
tazzer96
I think you put the nail in the coffin with DAA.
  nswtrains Chief Commissioner

The V-sets are no longer suitable for the traffic on offer to the Central Coast or Blue Mountains, however if there were wires to Canberra, I think they would be in their element.
RTT_Rules
I agree 100% with you on this one. But it aint going to happen ever.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

The V-sets are no longer suitable for the traffic on offer to the Central Coast or Blue Mountains, however if there were wires to Canberra, I think they would be in their element.
Not without some serious refit to at least one of the carriages in a set so anyone with a disability can use them.  Once any form of modification has to be done, its not worth it.  The line to canberra also has some decent sections of line speed greater than the 115km/h the v-sets can operate to, so even with the better acceleration, it may not be faster than the xplorers.

In the short term, they could be used on the cumberland line, central coast short runs. Or use a 3-car unit on the carlingford line or lidcombe-liverpool (via mian south) short runs.
tazzer96
We do not want V sets on the main south or Cumberland line. The doors are useless for the stopping patterns on these lines and they don't hold a candle to a waratah/millennium for acceleration and braking.

To me the V set is overated by people. The AC is weak, doors and walkways too narrow, toilets stink and the seats aren't as comfortable as some people make them out to be. The V sets are similar to an xplorer/xpt in that they aren't designed to unload passengers that quickly. Sure the suspension is good but the 4G electrics all have better ride characteristics over the V set. A narrow 4G would be an marked improvement.

The Oscars seats are obviously horrible but fix those seats up and they are perfectly capable of handling current Newcastle and Wollongong service loads. The Oscar is designed for short dwell and moving large amounts of people in and out quickly. Which is what is needed on the Central Coast, Newcastle and Wollongong services these days.
  johnboy Chief Commissioner
  icdog Train Controller

Location: Smegville
Ok ladies,

My sources tell me that a V set replacement will be a narrow bodied OSCar, UG have had these plans for years, built in Korea, with fixed seating, in different configurations, in 4 and 6 car consists, making up to a total of a 10 car set.

Enjoy.................... your V sets while they last!!!

And the reason you are getting this is because they are cheap and TfNSW doesn't give a smeg or care about the importance of the V sets, as they only will run into Labor held seats.
  tazzer96 Deputy Commissioner

From a technical perspective, the Oscar is a great train.  Why so much hate for something in which all the problems it currently will be fixed.  
Heck, a narrow bodied Oscar may be able to run fully to the white speed boards.
  Jim K Train Controller

Location: Well west of the Great Divide in NSW but not as far as South Australia
meanwhile in Victoria....https://www.railpage.com.au/news/s/new-2-billion-train-deal-to-create-1000-local-jobs
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

From a technical perspective, the Oscar is a great train.  Why so much hate for something in which all the problems it currently will be fixed.  
Heck, a narrow bodied Oscar may be able to run fully to the white speed boards.
tazzer96

I agree the Oscar is a great train only ruined by the horribly uncomfortable seats. Oscars can already hit the white speed boards speeds, as can a waratah and millennium.
  tazzer96 Deputy Commissioner

Also they would definitely need at least two toilets per 4 car set.  That's the only other issue for oscars running 3+ hour trips.
  meh Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney
meanwhile in Victoria....https://www.railpage.com.au/news/s/new-2-billion-train-deal-to-create-1000-local-jobs
Jim K
From the article:

The consortium Evolution Rail is headed by Downer Rail and the Chinese Railway Rolling Stock Corporation.

So it would seem to be a similar deal as per the Waratah's (assuming body's built OS and assembly and fit-out done here.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

Also they would definitely need at least two toilets per 4 car set.  That's the only other issue for oscars running 3+ hour trips.
tazzer96
Oscars rarely do 3 hour trips and the toilets on the Oscars are significantly cleaner then those on the v sets. They are also larger to accommodate wheelchair bound persons. The toilets on v sets are not wheelchair friendly and neither is the corridor to get in and out of wheelchairs.
  tazzer96 Deputy Commissioner

Thats my point, if the new trains are going to be based on the OScars, then you need more than 1 toilet.   Its also for redundancy purposes in case one breaks.

The oscars also do a fair amount of newcastle trips. And going all the way to kiama isn't a short trip.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

Thats my point, if the new trains are going to be based on the OScars, then you need more than 1 toilet.   Its also for redundancy purposes in case one breaks.

The oscars also do a fair amount of newcastle trips. And going all the way to kiama isn't a short trip.
tazzer96
kiama is only 2 hours and Newcastle depends on whether or not the train stops at all stations. Which is sort of silly since half the stations are short platforms and should be covered by a local 2 car service.

Most of those services are V sets in any case.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

Adding a second lavatory shouldn't be that hard to the Oscar design in any case.
  tazzer96 Deputy Commissioner

The newcastle all stops should be run with a 2 car electric single deck train.  Or at least portions of the line should be.  However if you introduced a shuttle service, you would need track amplification. I would amplify the gosford-morrisett section, since that would likely be the cheapest, and it has the most benefits due to the higher track speeds for most of it.  The freight companies would love amplification like this.
Maybe when the finally electrify the hamilton-telarah section of the main north they might so this.  (this electrification should have been done 20 years ago.)

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