Could it be and this is a real long shot here that the factory that was going to produce both the C30T for Shrike and the Ixion 32 class models claimed the C30T tooling as their own when Shrike found them selves scraping the bottom of the barrel for some money. So in lieu of money changing hands the tooling was simple given to them at no cost to clear the debt. The factory could then lease the tooling to a manufacture/distributor and at least get some money back on the investment, which looks like it might have happened. But in the mean time cost's for production have gone up and as the third party has to pay for leasing the dies etc and then getting the models put together the cost per item simply blew out. This does sound feasible though.

I do not know if the above is true but then again it might just be so.

No, not true.

The truth is much more "juicy" than that!

Paul

Not the first time you have claimed to know the truth behind the situation Paul. The last time you made the same claim several months ago on this thread you went quiet when I challenged you to spill the beans. I issue the same challenge again to put up or shut up.

I was naive enough to think monies paid for pre-orders would go into a trust fund, and released to the principals (who put up their own money, mortgaged houses etc) when the orders started flowing and being delivered. Silly me.

No, not true.

The truth is much more "juicy" than that!

Paul

Not the first time you have claimed to know the truth behind the situation Paul. The last time you made the same claim several months ago on this thread you went quiet when I challenged you to spill the beans. I issue the same challenge again to put up or shut up.

Really, this is like figuring out who and what "cancer man" was in the X files...

What is going to be the net benefit of knowing such information? other than scuttlebutt, notoriety and or perhaps loss of reputation.....

Perhaps I can quote an earlier (somewhat inflammatory) post that fired this thread up again.

"Meanwhile Paul has the right  not to talk any further, detail wise". To which in the original post this should have been added "nah nah nah naanuuha"

Regards,
Catchpoint

I am sorry that people appear to have lost the money that they paid to Shrike - but how is that Ixon's fault? Ixon clearly have stated that they 1) didn't own the tooling, 2) the project was contingent on good sales of the C32 model, 3) they weren't Shrike.

Notice that someone intendeds to produce a model is not a contract with anyone.

Taking orders and deposits clearly is and whoever is in that situation should take advice about what to do from and appropriately qualified and experienced person which, with all due respects, seems unlikely to be found on this thread.

Clearly since Ixon's announcement Austrains has come into the market and as Ixon says in their announcement costs have gone up and sales of the C32 have been slower than expected. It is not surprising that the project has stopped.

As for crowd funding - I would say once bitten twice shy.

Iain

Iain,
Are you saying "once bitten twice shy" because you know of a crowd funding venture that failed, costing people money?
Or are you thinking that the Shrike 30T has had two incarnations already, and a third is not a wise course of action?
Can you tell us what you know of failures?
Cheers
Rod Young

No, not true.

The truth is much more "juicy" than that!

Paul

Not the first time you have claimed to know the truth behind the situation Paul. The last time you made the same claim several months ago on this thread you went quiet when I challenged you to spill the beans. I issue the same challenge again to put up or shut up.

Really, this is like figuring out who and what "cancer man" was in the X files...

What is going to be the net benefit of knowing such information? other than scuttlebutt, notoriety and or perhaps loss of reputation.....

Perhaps I can quote an earlier (somewhat inflammatory) post that fired this thread up again.

"Meanwhile Paul has the right  not to talk any further, detail wise". To which in the original post this should have been added "nah nah nah naanuuha"

Regards,
Catchpoint

What was the point of his comment if he isn't going to elaborate. I'm of the opinion he has no more of an idea than the rest of us. I would have thought that anyone who has lost their money in this debacle has the right to know what went wrong and it might make it easier to pursue a refund.

To Comtrain / Rod young

I think you have a conflict of interest when it comes to Shrike models / Geoff Hope

1 . Geoff is / was a friend

2 . You where the PR manager for Shrike models on Railpage . Which would of helped more people hand over money to shrike .

3.  You made it clear that when Shrike models went bust that you where going to miss out on your two free models .

4 . You have often said don't make lawyers rich by going after a refund .


And for all of the Shrike customers if you get to together as a group and get one lawyer and say he cost $ 10,000 to get your money back and the cost is split  between 100 to 150 customers or models.

Eg full refund minus $ 50 to $100 per model which would depend on numbers and cost etc or you can just give up to the fact all money lost

Something to think about

Dear Mr Bear,
Nothing to think about it at all. Your argumentative nature all through this sorry episode is all written here. Should change your name to sore head bear
You don't have to be a PR manager to be a good friend, and good friends don't always treat you properly when you do act as a friend. Some do hang you out to dry, as you have previously noted.
I said I had not paid for my models, and (possibly) that I was getting a special price when they arrived, which was the truth as I knew it. You don't think John Eassie does not throw around a few "deals" even freebies among his friends?

Mr Bear you are more than welcome to gather as many people as you can, and go sue Mr Hope and Shrike, and make as many Lawyers rich as you can. In fact I really, really believe you should give it a go See you have my blessings

My thoughts are simply this. If you think glass half empty, no body wins except the smegging.......

But their may be an avenue to recover if the 100 odd creditors gather together and build the 30T themselves?  (Ixion have asked for an offer)

As you rightly pointed out I lost no cash, however I did lose a couple of models.

IF..  someone takes the Ixion project on and compensates the Shrike customers, I will buy two engines at retail to help it along. That's my commitment (from a VR blue and Gold modeller with over the border workings)

Here is a glass half full answer for you Mr Bear....

If you gather all those folk together and build the model, then nobody will lose much more than the $85 worked out by Ixion, and everybody will be happy except the lawyers?

Your alternative is that anybody wanting a C30T has to pay Austrains over $600 added to their loss of $495 and another Lawyers fee?

You still want to be king of this pile of bulldust? Why not leave that to Austrains? Or you can help.
God helps those that help themselves, or so the nuns told us as kids, and it always worked for me, I do admit.
(Actually seeing that in writing after all these years, it now looks to me  like a thieves mantra?)
The real king is Austrains who broke Ixion and now has a free 30T market, don't you think?  
Well of course most of those who already paid out $495 might decide not to spend another $600 on their C30T Would you spend $1095 on an unseen C30T, when a great little model has already reached the manufacturing stage and is ready to go?


By the way you are chasing an Rx, aren't you Mr Bear?  Did you buy a 30T? No?
  Did you pay for your Rx? Then you have your refund already, don't you?
Rod Young

No, not true.

The truth is much more "juicy" than that!

Paul

Not the first time you have claimed to know the truth behind the situation Paul. The last time you made the same claim several months ago on this thread you went quiet when I challenged you to spill the beans. I issue the same challenge again to put up or shut up.

Really, this is like figuring out who and what "cancer man" was in the X files...

What is going to be the net benefit of knowing such information? other than scuttlebutt, notoriety and or perhaps loss of reputation.....

Perhaps I can quote an earlier (somewhat inflammatory) post that fired this thread up again.

"Meanwhile Paul has the right  not to talk any further, detail wise". To which in the original post this should have been added "nah nah nah naanuuha"

Regards,
Catchpoint

Which "Inflammatory" post are you talking about.

Coke v Pepsi
Holden v Ford
McDonalds v Hungry Jacks
Austrains v Ixion
Woolworths v Coles
Bunnings v Masters (oh wait...)
One Chinese Factory vs Another Chinese Factory

See the trend here... it's not a new thing!

The only person who is squarely to blame for the 30T mess is Geoff Hope. He came out spouting about the fact he could make the best model for a much lower price than everyone else. Without experience in the industry or management. I remember him stating at a model show that 'the other producers are just ripping you off' and that he was going to lead the industry in a new direction. Well, turns out he was partially correct.
Just send me a cheque or some cash. That made me suspicious.
Yes, they have arrived. Oh, well he has done it.
Yes, they have arrived. Hmmm, didn't he say that two months ago?
Yes, they have arrived.... Now I'm suspicious again.

Well, then, you know the rest.

Ixion ends up with a bad name from all the conspiracy theorists.
Austrains end up with a bad name because they saw an opportunity.
And we still don't have an explanation on how Shrike messed it all up, advertised a product as delivered, hadn't paid for it, disappeared. I doubt it was on purpose - just poor management and an overwhelming capitulation of lies.

In most industries, when the final payment can't be made, anything that has been produced (or lent) becomes the property of the producer (or lender) and is then sold off to recoup some or all of the costs.

To comtrain / rod young

You do have a massive conflict of interest on the Shrike models mess being a PR manager then didn't like Ixion models being involved then falling in love with Ixion models then trying to come with the idea of crowd funding idea to solve shrike problems .

You are in dream land if you think that this idea can work in Australia which is a small market when the so called pro's have problems with budgets and time frames .

To make things clear this is about per paid customers of shrike models that have No models and No refund . There is only one of the Rx class customers that has a refund on Railpage that I know of . There is people of the facebook groups that don't have a refund for a Rx class loco .

I don't care about Austrains or Ixion models . I do care about people being ripped of in the hobby . But for some reason some people think its a hobby business so if it goes bad it doesn't matter that much which is wrong as the customer has lost money .

When Shrike models put on their Facebook page back In February company saved from going down the drain .I put the comment  '' Company only saved when customers get there models or a refund " This was removed within 12 hours from there site .

It is time for Shrike models to face the music and refund it's customers for bad management or whatever reason .

thread locked until further notice. new thread will be removed without warning, post on this in other threads will be removed.