Moscow – Berlin Talgo starts on December 17

 

News article: Moscow – Berlin Talgo starts on December 17

Russian Railways is to launch its Moscow – Minsk – Warszawa – Berlin Talgo train service in December, the national railway confirmed on October 28.

  Rossco T Chief Train Controller

Location: Camberwell, Victoria
Passing through a newly-built automatic gauge changer at Brest on the Belarus-Poland border will take around 20 min. RZD’s inter-city subsidiary Federal Passenger Co ordered seven Talgo trainsets in June 2011, at a cost of €100m. Designed for operation at up to 200 km/h, the 20-vehicle locomotive-hauled trainsets are formed of 17 passenger coaches, a dining car and two technical cars. Offering a mix of first and second class seats and two-berth sleeping compartments, each train has a total capacity of 414 passengers.
Somebody


Would these train sets be good value in an Australian context (i.e. €14m per 20 car set)?  Could this be a way of undertaking gauge conversion of regional lines whilst leaving metro lines as BG or NG depending on the state?

Ross

Moscow – Berlin Talgo starts on December 17

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  duttonbay Minister for Railways

We have never had any Talgo cars in Australia. Given our tendency to follow the "not invented here" custom it might be difficult to convince the operators to introduce what would be, here, quite a radical change in rolling stock. These cars a quite small - if you do the sums the capacity of each car is about 25 passengers - so to replace a three-car VLocity would require a train of about 9 cars. Given the quoted 20 minutes conversion time, this would add 10 minutes or more to each service, which people living in Seymour might not appreciate. You would also need a gauge-conversion facility to be located on each line, rather than just a single one - and the locos themselves are not converted, so you would require two locomotives for each service, one each side of the convertor.

It's an interesting concept, the gauge convertible Talgos. They work well in Spain and other places in Europe. It would be fascinating to see a genuine quote to supply and implement in Victoria, but I suspect it would be very expensive.
  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney
We have never had any Talgo cars in Australia. Given our tendency to follow the "not invented here" custom it might be difficult to convince the operators to introduce what would be, here, quite a radical change in rolling stock. These cars a quite small - if you do the sums the capacity of each car is about 25 passengers - so to replace a three-car VLocity would require a train of about 9 cars. Given the quoted 20 minutes conversion time, this would add 10 minutes or more to each service, which people living in Seymour might not appreciate. You would also need a gauge-conversion facility to be located on each line, rather than just a single one - and the locos themselves are not converted, so you would require two locomotives for each service, one each side of the convertor.

It's an interesting concept, the gauge convertible Talgos. They work well in Spain and other places in Europe. It would be fascinating to see a genuine quote to supply and implement in Victoria, but I suspect it would be very expensive.
duttonbay
The Talgo cars are indeed very short, and they are articulated with each car with one axle resting on the previous car, except for the first car which rests on the locomotive.

The locomotive is not necessarily gauge convertible.

It may also be the case that the whole train is not reversible, since the locomotive cannot be attached to the rear cars.

If the Talgo were any good, then why don't the manufacturers post small adverts in australian magazines and on websites such as Railpage, and put to rest all these uncertainties?
  duttonbay Minister for Railways

If the Talgo were any good, then why don't the manufacturers post small adverts in australian magazines and on websites such as Railpage, and put to rest all these uncertainties?
awsgc24
Possibly because Talgo couldn't see a market here. The reality is that passenger travel is very much a minority form of transport away from the capital cities.

A couple of years ago I was booked on a Talgo between Seattle and Vancouver, but it was replaced by an Amtrak superliner. It would have been interesting to compare Talgo as modified for the US market with the Spanish version.
  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney
If the Talgo were any good, then why don't the manufacturers post small adverts in australian magazines and on websites such as Railpage, and put to rest all these uncertainties?
Possibly because Talgo couldn't see a market here. The reality is that passenger travel is very much a minority form of transport away from the capital cities.
duttonbay

A small advert would not cost much.

In addition, the Talgo may need a triangle or balloon loop at the termini to reverse the whole train.
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
We have never had any Talgo cars in Australia. Given our tendency to follow the "not invented here" custom it might be difficult to convince the operators to introduce what would be, here, quite a radical change in rolling stock. These cars a quite small - if you do the sums the capacity of each car is about 25 passengers - so to replace a three-car VLocity would require a train of about 9 cars. Given the quoted 20 minutes conversion time, this would add 10 minutes or more to each service, which people living in Seymour might not appreciate. You would also need a gauge-conversion facility to be located on each line, rather than just a single one - and the locos themselves are not converted, so you would require two locomotives for each service, one each side of the convertor.

It's an interesting concept, the gauge convertible Talgos. They work well in Spain and other places in Europe. It would be fascinating to see a genuine quote to supply and implement in Victoria, but I suspect it would be very expensive.
duttonbay
The concept would be totally unviable for the Victorian market, the safety regulators would never approve of such of a rolling stock.
  duttonbay Minister for Railways

The concept would be totally unviable for the Victorian market, the safety regulators would never approve of such of a rolling stock.
Nightfire
And yet they run in the US, which has far more stringent rules than here.  Modified I admit, stronger than the European version, but the same single axle per car concept.
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
And yet they run in the US, which has far more stringent rules than here.  Modified I admit, stronger than the European version, but the same single axle per car concept.
duttonbay
You only have to look at the dead weight of the Vlocity rail cars, to see the standards required In Victoria by the regulators !
  duttonbay Minister for Railways

Fair enough. It was, to my mind, always a dead duck. Never going to happen. Just tossed up a few comments.

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