Ticket inspectors ‘intimidating’ passengers on Melbourne’s trains and trams

 

News article: Ticket inspectors ‘intimidating’ passengers on Melbourne’s trains and trams

HEAVY-handed ticket inspectors are “intimidating” passengers on trams and trains — and even calling police when they don’t get their way.

  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Probably not much. Perhaps people on welfare payments should be granted free travel on public transport. I think that may be the case in Adelaide?
Graham4405
No. If you are on the dole you need to apply for a Transport Concession Card in order to actually get the concessions - I'm not sure why that is the case in South Australia but not Victoria.

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  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
Not necessarily disagreeing with you, however in Victoria unless there has been a complete power outage to the station or severe vandalism it would be an extremely rare event to not be able to touch on due to equipment failure.
Codswallop, my dear sir, absolute codswallop. Trams and buses, when operating, do not have power outages, and I have lost count of the number of times I have attempted to touch on, and had the Myki reader refuse to act. I will try any other machine within reach, and then I quit. Anyone who thinks I am going to try and force my way along a crowded tram in an attempt to find a machine that actually works can go and whistle. I have had the experience of AO's trying to pin me for fare evasion on one such occasion. One bloke was a bull necked slob whose manners had been learnt at the feet of Genghis Khan; the other guy and his female accomplice were polite and actually listened to what I said. I took the trouble to report Genghis, but heard no more.
With respect Valvegear, it is far from codswallop.

Trams and buses do not have power outages in the traditional sense such as a mains failure at a station, however the Myki system on both types of vehicles does run off its own 24v system with its own fuses and breakers etc which can and do fail leaving the system as dead as a door knob even though the vehicle is continuing on its merry way. It is rare and usually fixed pretty quickly which is why you probably haven't experienced it.

In the end it comes down to the definition of 'reasonable lengths to validate' and how that's viewed in the eyes of the AO's and the law. If you physically could not access another working FPD due to crush load in a tram, I would hope an AO's would recognize this and act accordingly. If the tram was just crowded and you couldn't be bothered walking to another FPD i'm not sure they would be terribly sympathetic towards you.
jakar
The system does not have to have a power outage for the reader to be faulty - it could be that the reader is not responding, or that the reader is stuck in a boot loop for instance.
  HardWorkingMan Chief Commissioner

Location: Echuca
Some of these AOs don't even know the rules.  My wife travelled to Melbourne on a paper ticket (we don't have Myki up here) which stated words to the effect that it included all rail, tram and buses in zones 1 and 2 (that may not be the exact words, I don't have the ticket).  She caught the train to Southern Cross then a train to Jolimont for an appointment only to be booked for travelling without a valid ticket getting off at that station.  Not only that they kept her paper ticket requiring her to purchase another one for the way home.

Once she got home she stopped at the V/Line office and the person on duty recognised her - having sold her the ticket a couple of days earlier.  They said it wasn't the first time and helped my wife fill out the form to contest the decision and ask for the ticket home she was forced to buy when the took her paper ticket to be refunded.  About 2 months later she got a letter saying the fine had been dropped but they were reviewing whether the reimbursement for the extra ticket was warranted as they should be able to reimburse her Myki. We replied that a myki is useless where we live as  we are in a paper ticket area. About 4 months after that we got a cheque for the price of a single ticket.
  Graham4405 Minister for Railways

Location: Dalby Qld
Some of these AOs don't even know the rules.  My wife travelled to Melbourne on a paper ticket (we don't have Myki up here) which stated words to the effect that it included all rail, tram and buses in zones 1 and 2 (that may not be the exact words, I don't have the ticket).  She caught the train to Southern Cross then a train to Jolimont for an appointment only to be booked for travelling without a valid ticket getting off at that station.  Not only that they kept her paper ticket requiring her to purchase another one for the way home.

Once she got home she stopped at the V/Line office and the person on duty recognised her - having sold her the ticket a couple of days earlier.  They said it wasn't the first time and helped my wife fill out the form to contest the decision and ask for the ticket home she was forced to buy when the took her paper ticket to be refunded.  About 2 months later she got a letter saying the fine had been dropped but they were reviewing whether the reimbursement for the extra ticket was warranted as they should be able to reimburse her Myki. We replied that a myki is useless where we live as  we are in a paper ticket area. About 4 months after that we got a cheque for the price of a single ticket.
HardWorkingMan
That is just crazy! Only in Victoria (hopefully)...
  justapassenger Chief Commissioner

Probably not much. Perhaps people on welfare payments should be granted free travel on public transport. I think that may be the case in Adelaide?
No. If you are on the dole you need to apply for a Transport Concession Card in order to actually get the concessions - I'm not sure why that is the case in South Australia but not Victoria.
don_dunstan
The availability (upon application, which requires jumping through an arcane series of hoops) of this concession discount card (only a discount, not free travel) to the unemployed is kept very quiet by the SA Government.

It's probably because the SA Government is already pissing away too much money providing free travel to all seniors, which they brought in to buy the grey vote in the run up to a state election. Previously, there was a concession card supplied to those who were receiving a government pension which entitled them to a very generous discount on fares which were already subsidised.

I would like to see it reined in so it is only available to actual pensioners, and perhaps a one year card also given to other seniors upon them voluntarily handing back their driver's licence.
  jakar Assistant Commissioner

Location: Melbourne
The system does not have to have a power outage for the reader to be faulty - it could be that the reader is not responding, or that the reader is stuck in a boot loop for instance.
railblogger
Thanks railblogger, I am very familiar with all the potential faults that an FPD could have. The point I was trying to make is that there are normally multiple readers at any given location/vehicle so it would take an event such as a power outage or a driver not logged into the TDC/BDC for you not to be able touch on at all. If you come across a faulty FPD and choose not to walk to another working one it is hardly accidental as claimed. Yes, as always, there are exceptions to this which then gets back to the training the AO's receive and their ability to use their own discretion and to verify your claim on the spot before issuing a fine.
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
The system does not have to have a power outage for the reader to be faulty - it could be that the reader is not responding, or that the reader is stuck in a boot loop for instance.
Thanks railblogger, I am very familiar with all the potential faults that an FPD could have. The point I was trying to make is that there are normally multiple readers at any given location/vehicle so it would take an event such as a power outage or a driver not logged into the TDC/BDC for you not to be able touch on at all. If you come across a faulty FPD and choose not to walk to another working one it is hardly accidental as claimed. Yes, as always, there are exceptions to this which then gets back to the training the AO's receive and their ability to use their own discretion and to verify your claim on the spot before issuing a fine.
jakar
Wow - such knowledge!
A meaningless post to most of us who do not speak MYKI.

FPD  TDC  BDC ???????????????????
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
The system does not have to have a power outage for the reader to be faulty - it could be that the reader is not responding, or that the reader is stuck in a boot loop for instance.
Thanks railblogger, I am very familiar with all the potential faults that an FPD could have. The point I was trying to make is that there are normally multiple readers at any given location/vehicle so it would take an event such as a power outage or a driver not logged into the TDC/BDC for you not to be able touch on at all. If you come across a faulty FPD and choose not to walk to another working one it is hardly accidental as claimed. Yes, as always, there are exceptions to this which then gets back to the training the AO's receive and their ability to use their own discretion and to verify your claim on the spot before issuing a fine.
Wow - such knowledge!
A meaningless post to most of us who do not speak MYKI.

FPD  TDC  BDC ???????????????????
YM-Mundrabilla
Presumably:

  • FPD refers to the readers/gates used to touch on/off, and
  • TDC/BDC refers to the gate attendant's console that sits besides some gate arrays.
  Lad_Porter Chief Commissioner

Location: Yarra Glen
Some of these AOs don't even know the rules.  My wife travelled to Melbourne on a paper ticket (we don't have Myki up here) which stated words to the effect that it included all rail, tram and buses in zones 1 and 2 (that may not be the exact words, I don't have the ticket).  She caught the train to Southern Cross then a train to Jolimont for an appointment only to be booked for travelling without a valid ticket getting off at that station.  Not only that they kept her paper ticket requiring her to purchase another one for the way home.

Once she got home she stopped at the V/Line office and the person on duty recognised her - having sold her the ticket a couple of days earlier.  They said it wasn't the first time and helped my wife fill out the form to contest the decision and ask for the ticket home she was forced to buy when the took her paper ticket to be refunded.  About 2 months later she got a letter saying the fine had been dropped but they were reviewing whether the reimbursement for the extra ticket was warranted as they should be able to reimburse her Myki. We replied that a myki is useless where we live as  we are in a paper ticket area. About 4 months after that we got a cheque for the price of a single ticket.
HardWorkingMan
Unbelievable, both for the initial reaction of the AOs, and for the process involved in rectifying it.  Presumably the wife pointed out the wording on the paper ticket?  Quite clearly it was not a case of fare evasion, and as the paper ticket still had a valid return part, it should never have been confiscated.

Surely the training given to AOs would include what V/Line paper tickets provide?  Or is there so much animosity between Metro and V/Line that it is not even mentioned?
  jakar Assistant Commissioner

Location: Melbourne
Presumably: FPD refers to the readers/gates used to touch on/off, and TDC/BDC refers to the gate attendant's console that sits besides some gate arrays.
railblogger
Close-

FPD: As i mentioned in my first post in this thread, Fare payment device. The device you hold your card against to touch on and off. Comes in Stationary, mobile, and gate variety's but all do the same thing.

BDC: Bus driver console. This is the device next to the driver that they log into with an operator card to select a shift/route and used to add credit to patron cards among other things.

TDC: Tram driver console. Similar to a bus except there is a primary and secondary device due to a tram having two cabs.

Unless a driver is logged into a BDC/TDC the FPD's do not become active on that particular vehicle and therefore you will not be able to touch on/off. This should be clear as day to an AO and can be easily verified by time stamps and status in the back end. An FPD at a fixed location (station) should always be active except during maintenance or failure.

The console that sits beside some gate arrays that you mentioned is called a GAC, which is short for Gate attendant control or Gate access console depending on who you speak to.

@YM-Mundrabilla, If I come across some lingo, a component, location, whatever, on this forum or others that I don't know the meaning of or what or where it is, I don't get upset, I show some initiative and try and find out for myself. And if I can't find out I politely ask the person to explain it a bit better. A simple google search which would have probably taken a fraction of the time it took you to type your post would have revealed the answers for you with even having to click on a link. If that isn't enough there are even links back to existing Railpage threads which explain what they are. I did not use the abbreviations as a show of knowledge or arrogance or any other way you wish to spin it, I simply did it out of habit and the fact that that is what anyone who deals with them calls them. You can lead a horse to water.........

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