Gippsland has worst passenger rail service in Victoria

 
Topic moved from News by bevans on 12 Dec 2016 08:18
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
V/Line performance and Public Transport planning is becoming a thorn in the side of Andrews.  He chooses to ignore this as did Denis when he was in and look what happened.

Andrews has now allocated $6b to roads.

Gippsland has worst passenger rail service in Victoria

Sponsored advertisement

  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
V/Line performance and Public Transport planning is becoming a thorn in the side of Andrews.  He chooses to ignore this as did Denis when he was in and look what happened.

Andrews has now allocated $6b to roads.

Gippsland has worst passenger rail service in Victoria
bevans

Well he's spending $500 Million on my line alone from this years budget so I'm not complaining...

Denis had a one seat majority with the clown MP Geoff Shaw holding the conservative government to ransom.

Mike.

PS link doesn't work.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia

Well he's spending $500 Million on my line alone from this years budget so I'm not complaining...

Denis had a one seat majority with the clown MP Geoff Shaw holding the conservative government to ransom.

Mike.
The Vinelander

Are you referring Mike to the Mildura upgrades?

Regardless, V/Line services are not keeping pace with the expectations of customers and many V/Line projects are years behind in delivery.  Echuca for example.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line

Well he's spending $500 Million on my line alone from this years budget so I'm not complaining...

Denis had a one seat majority with the clown MP Geoff Shaw holding the conservative government to ransom.

Mike.
Are you referring Mike to the Mildura upgrades?

Regardless, V/Line services are not keeping pace with the expectations of customers and many V/Line projects are years behind in delivery.  Echuca for example.
bevans

Nope...Mildura upgrades will have little to do with Ballarat to Melbourne via Ballan.

The $500 million I spoke of will double track from Caroline Springs to Melton, a second platform and crossing loop at Ballan and a second platform and stabling yards at Bacchus Marsh.

Unfortunately for Echuca residents...they live in safe National Party territory.

Mike.
  DalyWaters Chief Commissioner

There is one outstanding project that will make a massive difference to passenger rail in Victoria.

That is the quadruplication of tracks from Caulfield to Dandenong.

This is the reason that commuting from the Latrobe Valley is not practical.  It is ridiculous that V/Line trains and Metro express trains are forced to dawdle along at 40 kmh because there is only one track for the direction and the number of trains means that a stopper is often caught up to by an express or V/Line train within a station or two of leaving Dandenong (on the Up).

I am a full on supporter of the "skytrain" concept.  However, what they are doing now is condemning the Latrobe Valley to misery for years to come. There is only one sensible way to do it.  Do two tracks now and, whilst the machinery is still here, do the next two tracks immediately after.  Instead, the proposal is to do two tracks then consider the other two tracks in 12 years time!  In that time, the nimbys will ensure it is never done.

So, the only winners out of skytrain will be the road users in the immediate suburbs.  The rail commuters will get absolutely nothing out of all the work and expense.

No other project should be as much as started until this project is under way to make it a four track corridor.  Is there anywhere else in the world where what we have is acceptable?

The announcement of the closure of Hazelwood power station is the perfect opportunity for the Government to provide better conditions for Latrobe Valley people to commute to Melbourne. They could bring forward the quadruplication. This would preserve jobs in the Valley from all the shops and industries that provide for these commuters.

I am guessing that none of the PTV/TfV/DOT/DOI bureaucrats that advise the Government live in the Valley.
  steve195 Train Controller

There is one outstanding project that will make a massive difference to passenger rail in Victoria.

That is the quadruplication of tracks from Caulfield to Dandenong.

This is the reason that commuting from the Latrobe Valley is not practical.  It is ridiculous that V/Line trains and Metro express trains are forced to dawdle along at 40 kmh because there is only one track for the direction and the number of trains means that a stopper is often caught up to by an express or V/Line train within a station or two of leaving Dandenong (on the Up).

I am a full on supporter of the "skytrain" concept.  However, what they are doing now is condemning the Latrobe Valley to misery for years to come. There is only one sensible way to do it.  Do two tracks now and, whilst the machinery is still here, do the next two tracks immediately after.  Instead, the proposal is to do two tracks then consider the other two tracks in 12 years time!  In that time, the nimbys will ensure it is never done.

So, the only winners out of skytrain will be the road users in the immediate suburbs.  The rail commuters will get absolutely nothing out of all the work and expense.

No other project should be as much as started until this project is under way to make it a four track corridor.  Is there anywhere else in the world where what we have is acceptable?

The announcement of the closure of Hazelwood power station is the perfect opportunity for the Government to provide better conditions for Latrobe Valley people to commute to Melbourne. They could bring forward the quadruplication. This would preserve jobs in the Valley from all the shops and industries that provide for these commuters.

I am guessing that none of the PTV/TfV/DOT/DOI bureaucrats that advise the Government live in the Valley.
DalyWaters
For starters expanding skyrail to be four tracks would be political suicide in the current landscape. It's a sad reality, but property acquisitions would be required and you can be sure that the Herald Sun would't deride displaced residents as latte-sipping, traffic jam-loving, car-hating, hippie scum like they did with those who lost their homes for the east west link.

In the mean time, why can't v/line trains overtake suburban ones at Dandenong, Oakleigh or Westall? Surely if a Metro service is holding up a v/line one it could wait in the platform for 90 seconds to let it past. It might not be a great solution, but it would improve punctuality some of the time for not cost at all.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
For starters expanding skyrail to be four tracks would be political suicide in the current landscape. It's a sad reality, but property acquisitions would be required and you can be sure that the Herald Sun would't deride displaced residents as latte-sipping, traffic jam-loving, car-hating, hippie scum like they did with those who lost their homes for the east west link.

In the mean time, why can't v/line trains overtake suburban ones at Dandenong, Oakleigh or Westall? Surely if a Metro service is holding up a v/line one it could wait in the platform for 90 seconds to let it past. It might not be a great solution, but it would improve punctuality some of the time for not cost at all.
steve195

This happens already...particularly if the V/Line driver is switched on and has a word with the train controller or vice versa, particularly when following a spark.

Mike.
  L1150 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Pakenham Vic.
So Mike,

Dan favours some areas and the rest who aren't aligned with his political bent can go jump? Hardly the mark of a good politician! Sky rail in its present form will condemn Gippsland pax to a slow journey through the Metro area for decades and assurances from the minister that sky rail can be easily expanded to extra tracks is bunk!

Overtaking at Westall and Oakleigh is possible and I've occasionally been on a Vline that has actually been able to overtake but it is a rarity and as far as I'm aware is not a regular feature of the timetable. Metro regards Gippsland trains as a nuisance and has even tried to have all Vline terminate at Pakenham with pax then having to endure a crowded, slow Met service to complete their journey!

I emailed the minister pointing out the substantial difference in the time a Bendigo train takes to complete its journey compared to the much longer time for a Traralgon to SCS, service given that the distances are almost the same. Her reply ignored my comments completely and simply gave me some cut and paste garbage about how wonderful Dans improvements will be.
  steve195 Train Controller

For starters expanding skyrail to be four tracks would be political suicide in the current landscape. It's a sad reality, but property acquisitions would be required and you can be sure that the Herald Sun would't deride displaced residents as latte-sipping, traffic jam-loving, car-hating, hippie scum like they did with those who lost their homes for the east west link.

In the mean time, why can't v/line trains overtake suburban ones at Dandenong, Oakleigh or Westall? Surely if a Metro service is holding up a v/line one it could wait in the platform for 90 seconds to let it past. It might not be a great solution, but it would improve punctuality some of the time for not cost at all.

This happens already...particularly if the V/Line driver is switched on and has a word with the train controller or vice versa, particularly when following a spark.

Mike.
The Vinelander
Never seen it myself but I stand corrected. Maybe the next contract the government signs with metro could include a detailed policy for this type of manoeuvre. That might make metro a little more accommodating.
  woodford Chief Commissioner

A woodford opinion, you have been warned


So Mike,

Dan favours some areas and the rest who aren't aligned with his political bent can go jump? Hardly the mark of a good politician! Sky rail in its present form will condemn Gippsland pax to a slow journey through the Metro area for decades and assurances from the minister that sky rail can be easily expanded to extra tracks is bunk!

"L1150"


NO, No, No, No,

Firstly I am not a fan of any political partiy and I normal do not vote for anyone at an election as there is usually no candidate the actually real cares. Now.................

Under the current politcal climate, with much public dissatisfaction with the major political parties, a government simply is NOT strong enough to do something that will be against a significant group of voters. In this case 4 tracks in from anywhere, be it Clifton Hill, Essendon or Dandenong, would require bulldozing large numbers of house's No current government would survive that, the current premier is just being a political realist. Look at what happened to his predecessor who did not take any notice of public opinion.

Why do you think they put the new Geelong line out in the middle of nowhere, because it effected less voters an d it meant there was a good chance the government of the day would survive.

woodford
  Lad_Porter Chief Commissioner

Location: Yarra Glen
Two irrefutable facts emerge from this discussion:

1.  There is a desperate need for quadruplication through the Dandenong corridor.  It simply must be done, if any kind of reasonable service is to be provided into the future.

2.  But, as Woodford points out, it will never happen - too politically inexpedient.

How sad that actual reality is subservient to political reality.
  DalyWaters Chief Commissioner

The responses here pretty well sum up the state of play in Australia compared to elsewhere.

Everyone knows what is best but then devotes so much time to finding reasons why it can't be done.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
For starters expanding skyrail to be four tracks would be political suicide in the current landscape. It's a sad reality, but property acquisitions would be required and you can be sure that the Herald Sun would't deride displaced residents as latte-sipping, traffic jam-loving, car-hating, hippie scum like they did with those who lost their homes for the east west link.

In the mean time, why can't v/line trains overtake suburban ones at Dandenong, Oakleigh or Westall? Surely if a Metro service is holding up a v/line one it could wait in the platform for 90 seconds to let it past. It might not be a great solution, but it would improve punctuality some of the time for not cost at all.

This happens already...particularly if the V/Line driver is switched on and has a word with the train controller or vice versa, particularly when following a spark.

Mike.
Never seen it myself but I stand corrected. Maybe the next contract the government signs with metro could include a detailed policy for this type of manoeuvre. That might make metro a little more accommodating.
steve195

From my experience of travelling in the cab with a driver who likes his job and actually wants to keep to the timetable, particularly when the spark ahead is running late, depending on where this occurs the V/Line driver will start a conversation with the controller OR the controller who is switched on will have a word with the driver about running through the spark.

This can happen at Caulfield or Westall.

On the UP...same goes and in the event of the V/Line train running late, a word to the controller...provided the V/Line train is no more than 4" late will see a spark held at Pakenham so the V/Line train will get a good run.

However this whole process tends to be very ad-hoc and depends on the whim of the driver or the train controller.

I think a performance incentive should be introduced to encourage drivers to maintain the schedule and in the event of unavoidable late running incentive bonuses should be awarded to drivers or controllers who path trains at a given time and situation for the best advantage of all passengers.

This does not occur at present, however I think it should.

This is no real substitute for the addition of an express bi-directional third track from Caulfield to Dandenong, but at least it would be a good start.

Mike.
  woodford Chief Commissioner

Two irrefutable facts emerge from this discussion:

1.  There is a desperate need for quadruplication through the Dandenong corridor.  It simply must be done, if any kind of reasonable service is to be provided into the future.

2.  But, as Woodford points out, it will never happen - too politically inexpedient.

How sad that actual reality is subservient to political reality.
"Lad_Porter"



Sorry to butt in, never is along time, what will happen is the traffic situation will gradual worsen around the metro area, the situation will NOT be help by a sudden rise in fuel prices. WHICH WILL OCCUR. the public will the start a great out cry to improve public transport which will with any doubt droun out any protests and the government will simply have to act. Note: This is in fact how most such things come about, by the government of day being forced into a position it cannot escape from.

I may also mention that the Metro Tunnel MUST BE FINISHED FIRST as the core network has no more time slots left and any extra services comming in will have nowhere to go.

woodford
  DalyWaters Chief Commissioner

The need for quadruplication has nothing to do with new services. It is about fixing the existing services.

Again, another of Australia's infrastructure problems:

Don't let fixing an existing problem get in the way of a fancy new project of dubious benefit.
  DirtyBallast Chief Commissioner

Location: I was here first. You're only visiting.
V-Line services being held up by sparks between Dandenong and Caulfield annoy the crap outta me too, but I only use that train drug on a casual and recreational basis and not as a daily fix, so no real harm done...Wink

Does anyone not realise that quadruplication (or at the very least, overtaking loops)  can easily be constructed within the existing reservation BETWEEN the sections of skyrail, particularly between Up of Clayton and Oakleigh? Same between Sandown Park and Up of Westall too, although excavation would be needed at Springvale. It would be a relatively cheap solution, and the loops would not necessarily need to be electrified!
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
The rail futures strategy has track quadruplication between Oakleigh and Dandenong but not Caulfield and Oakleigh !
The LXRA grade separation viaducts have the provision for quadruplication through Clayton and Noble Park (above where the current tracks sit)

As of how 4 tracks would be configured ? It would nearly have to be DOWN, DOWN, UP, UP, with platforms for every track, ells there would be a flat junction conflict at both Dandenong and Oakleigh.

Sponsored advertisement

Subscribers: bevans, Boss, doyle, Nightfire

Display from:   

Quick Reply

We've disabled Quick Reply for this thread as it was last updated more than six months ago.