Thornlie - Cockburn Central 'missing link' question

 
  chooke Station Master

Hi

I know there have been discussions on completing this link (ie Labor's Metronet and Coalition's promise of sometime in the future).

I think it is a good idea as much of the infrastructure is already in place, eg the carriageway, tunnels on the Armadale and Mandurah lines.  

The question I have is have any of the costings done to date include what would be a considerable upgrade cost of the level crossings on the Armadale line?  The reason I ask is that the level crossings are already substandard (and appear in the top 5 worst suburban crossings) and in need of grade separations.  

The other week I was stuck turning right into Wharf Street for nearly 10 minutes as six separate trains used the crossing (a couple of them had an inordinate wait as the crossing was still active before the trains arrived at the Cannington and Queens Park stations).  I cannot see how this could be sustainable with extra trains on the missing link.

Sponsored advertisement

  Northmetro Junior Train Controller

Why would there be extra trains - other than special events at Perth stadium? Surely the Thornlie trains will simply be extended to Cockburn
  Bulbous Assistant Commissioner

As above, there will be only extra specials for the football. The only grade separations along there currently planned are Welshpool Road and Oats Street, although I wouldn't rule out another mid-block overpass like the one just south of Cannington station.
  chooke Station Master

Ok, thanks.  I would have thought that regular suburban train linking the eastern suburbs with Mandurah and the southern suburbs would be a step in cross city accessibility.  Isn't that part of the Metronet premise?

Another part which puzzles me, given the traffic congestion, is why do the Wharf St signals commence operating before the train arrives at Cannington when all trains have to stop there?  For example, the Woodville Station in Adelaide has a red stop.  The signals are activated when the train is at the station and turn yellow or green when the boom gates are down.  This system not only allows a little extra time for traffic but also eliminates the long wait between trains at either end.
  witzendoz Junior Train Controller

Location: Fremantle
With the Thornlie line extended to Cockburn, it would require an extra platform at Cockburn to turn back the trains through Thornlie, as the platforms at Cockburn are too busy to handle more trains.  The turn back platform would also need easy change of trains between both directions of the Mandurah line and the Thornlie trains.  Could end up with an interesting layout at Cockburn.

One day, probably not in my life time, trains may also run to Fremantle from Cockburn for the forgotten south of Fremantle coastal suburbs, we can only hope.
  aliG Beginner

I agree that most of the infrastructure is in place and this could be brought on relatively quickly. Hence, bring it on.
As for the crossings....Welshpool Rd (and Wharf) are ridiculous. FFS....grade separate the bloody things and rapidly.
  chooke Station Master

It seems both major parties are committed to the Thornlie and Cockburn connection.

The question remains, does this include grade separation of Wharf St, Hamilton St, Welshpool Rd, Oats st - and possibly, but less critically, William st and Mint st?

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-01-25/wa-thornlie-cockburn-rail-line-announced-by-barnett-government/8210902
  Tennyson76 Beginner

Sorry, excuse my ignorance but why would it be less important to grade-separate William and Mint Streets, compared to the other four?
  chooke Station Master

Sorry, excuse my ignorance but why would it be less important to grade-separate William and Mint Streets, compared to the other four?
Tennyson76
They are not as busy.  In addition, both the Oats St and Wharf St crossings usually require a long wait as the trains seem to cross each other around each other, with long waiting times as the trains stop at the nearby stations.
  Tennyson76 Beginner

Sorry, excuse my ignorance but why would it be less important to grade-separate William and Mint Streets, compared to the other four?
They are not as busy.  In addition, both the Oats St and Wharf St crossings usually require a long wait as the trains seem to cross each other around each other, with long waiting times as the trains stop at the nearby stations.
chooke
Thanks.  Fair enough.
  62440 Chief Commissioner

With the Thornlie line extended to Cockburn, it would require an extra platform at Cockburn to turn back the trains through Thornlie, as the platforms at Cockburn are too busy to handle more trains.  The turn back platform would also need easy change of trains between both directions of the Mandurah line and the Thornlie trains.  Could end up with an interesting layout at Cockburn.

One day, probably not in my life time, trains may also run to Fremantle from Cockburn for the forgotten south of Fremantle coastal suburbs, we can only hope.
witzendoz
The turnback roads at Cockburn are in place. They are designed so trains can leave out of arrival sequence if needed. This was part of the original Mandurah design via Thornlie dumped in 2001 at the change of government
  witzendoz Junior Train Controller

Location: Fremantle
With the Thornlie line extended to Cockburn, it would require an extra platform at Cockburn to turn back the trains through Thornlie, as the platforms at Cockburn are too busy to handle more trains.  The turn back platform would also need easy change of trains between both directions of the Mandurah line and the Thornlie trains.  Could end up with an interesting layout at Cockburn.

One day, probably not in my life time, trains may also run to Fremantle from Cockburn for the forgotten south of Fremantle coastal suburbs, we can only hope.
The turnback roads at Cockburn are in place. They are designed so trains can leave out of arrival sequence if needed. This was part of the original Mandurah design via Thornlie dumped in 2001 at the change of government
62440
I know there are turnback roads, but the platforms will get very busy during peak times, at the moment there is only a tight gap of 2 mins for trains departing to Perth and trains arriving from Perth are coming in every 4 mins.  If you add in the Thornlie line with the same departure thats a train every Min.  If the trains are terminating then there is a slowdown as the train is emptied.  Also it will be a station where people change trains so there could be dwell time when the train will sit in the station?  Extra platforms, logically extra turnback platform for the Thornlie line?
  Mouse Chief Train Controller

Location:
Word from the Skyscrapercity forum (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=896898&page=956#post137943587) is that they're looking at an additional dock platform to the north of the current island, and 3 to 4 tracks from there to the Jandakot tunnel to keep Thornlie-bound trains separate from current Mandurah line services.

Chooke - Labor are promising to grade-separate Oats and Wharf Streets, while there's been nothing from the Libs so far.

https://www.railpage.com.au/news/s/labor-to-remove-rail-crossings
  62440 Chief Commissioner

With the Thornlie line extended to Cockburn, it would require an extra platform at Cockburn to turn back the trains through Thornlie, as the platforms at Cockburn are too busy to handle more trains.  The turn back platform would also need easy change of trains between both directions of the Mandurah line and the Thornlie trains.  Could end up with an interesting layout at Cockburn.

One day, probably not in my life time, trains may also run to Fremantle from Cockburn for the forgotten south of Fremantle coastal suburbs, we can only hope.
The turnback roads at Cockburn are in place. They are designed so trains can leave out of arrival sequence if needed. This was part of the original Mandurah design via Thornlie dumped in 2001 at the change of government
I know there are turnback roads, but the platforms will get very busy during peak times, at the moment there is only a tight gap of 2 mins for trains departing to Perth and trains arriving from Perth are coming in every 4 mins.  If you add in the Thornlie line with the same departure thats a train every Min.  If the trains are terminating then there is a slowdown as the train is emptied.  Also it will be a station where people change trains so there could be dwell time when the train will sit in the station?  Extra platforms, logically extra turnback platform for the Thornlie line?
witzendoz
With the double turnback, two terminating trains can enter the turnbacks within the 2 minute window.. Trains can leave the turnbacks right behind a through stopper. Are the crowds disgorging at Cockburn really going to take more than 30 seconds to leave? The turnbacks were specifically designed for this.
  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney

The other week I was stuck turning right into Wharf Street for nearly 10 minutes as six separate trains used the crossing (a couple of them had an inordinate wait as the crossing was still active before the trains arrived at the Cannington and Queens Park stations).  I cannot see how this could be sustainable with extra trains on the missing link.
chooke

Is it possible to point to a link to a electronic map that takes you direct to Wharf Street.

This link, http://www.street-directory.com , takes you only to the top page of a map, and then you have to type more stuff to get to Wharf, and zoom in to the required extend.
  chooke Station Master


The other week I was stuck turning right into Wharf Street for nearly 10 minutes as six separate trains used the crossing (a couple of them had an inordinate wait as the crossing was still active before the trains arrived at the Cannington and Queens Park stations).  I cannot see how this could be sustainable with extra trains on the missing link.
Is it possible to point to a link to a electronic map that takes you direct to Wharf Street.

This link, http://www.street-directory.com , takes you only to the top page of a map, and then you have to type more stuff to get to Wharf, and zoom in to the required extend.
awsgc24

Sponsored advertisement

Subscribers: awsgc24, Tennyson76, witzendoz

Display from:   

Quick Reply

We've disabled Quick Reply for this thread as it was last updated more than six months ago.