Hawson-Port Pirie Iron Ore

 
  Pressman Spirit of the Vine

Location: Wherever the Tin Chook or Qantas takes me
Does the port at Wallaroo see any use whatsoever?
Yes grain is still exported, but all road served.

So residents would prefer a large number of truck movements through their town to a single train movement?
x31
You'll find grain truck traffic skirts the township using Sharples Road (to the East) and Magazine Road (to the south)
Bunker storage is located 2 kms south of the silo block

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  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney
Does the port at Wallaroo see any use whatsoever?
Yes grain is still exported, but all road served.
Yes but berth is limited to ships under 230m length, 32m beam and 8.4m draft
Grain Loader limited to 600 tph
Pressman
What is the size of ship in terms of tonneage?
  kipioneer Chief Commissioner

Location: Aberfoyle Park
Does the port at Wallaroo see any use whatsoever?
Yes grain is still exported, but all road served.

So residents would prefer a large number of truck movements through their town to a single train movement?
Stupid thing to say.

The nature of the catchment means that Wallaroo has always been largely road served. The amount delivered by rail was never big in the greater scheme of things and a fair bit of that would now go via the rail served silo at Snowtown.
bingley hall
Except for the occasional transfer from the Snowtown silos which does see a lot of trucks coming through Kadina  I would think most of the grain into Wallaroo comes from the south.    There is a by-pass around Wallaroo but not Kadina to cater for anything from the east or north.
  SA_trains Deputy Commissioner

Location: ACT
Whoever has thought up this plan would seem to have not consulted a nautical chart. Spencer Gulf is quite shallow. Infact, there is verrrrrrry little deep water. Check out this chart here: http://fishing-app.gpsnauticalcharts.com/i-boating-fishing-web-app/fishing-marine-charts-navigation.html#11/-33.0655/137.8567

(note that you may need to change depth to metres and that depth is lowest astronomical tide)

There is a very long narrow channel leading into Port Pirie. Surrounding that channel out to some distance are shallow waters that are generally around 4 metres depth. Out a bit further are a few deeper holes around 15 metres depth. Those depths are barely adequate for small coastal ships. A Panamax ship (50,000/80,000 tonnes) have a draft of about 12 metres. There is not much deep water until a little bit south of Whyalla and even then, only about 20 metres. The chart above shows four anchorage swing areas off Whyalla. Wallaroo is also quite shallow. The channel is about 10 metres depth into Wallaroo.

There is insufficient water depth around Port Pirie, Wallaroo and Port Bonython to operate even Panamax ships. Cape Class are right out!

LaughingLaughing
  SA_trains Deputy Commissioner

Location: ACT
Does the port at Wallaroo see any use whatsoever?
Yes grain is still exported, but all road served.
Yes but berth is limited to ships under 230m length, 32m beam and 8.4m draft
Grain Loader limited to 600 tph
What is the size of ship in terms of tonneage?
awsgc24

Its a bit hard to say, but 20,000 through to about 40,000 tonnes depending on the type of ship. The real limiting factor is the draft irrespective of the tonnage
  wogman Station Staff

Location: One good foam away from Hawthorn station.
Whoever has thought up this plan would seem to have not consulted a nautical chart. Spencer Gulf is quite shallow. Infact, there is verrrrrrry little deep water. Check out this chart here: http://fishing-app.gpsnauticalcharts.com/i-boating-fishing-web-app/fishing-marine-charts-navigation.html#11/-33.0655/137.8567

(note that you may need to change depth to metres and that depth is lowest astronomical tide)

There is a very long narrow channel leading into Port Pirie. Surrounding that channel out to some distance are shallow waters that are generally around 4 metres depth. Out a bit further are a few deeper holes around 15 metres depth. Those depths are barely adequate for small coastal ships. A Panamax ship (50,000/80,000 tonnes) have a draft of about 12 metres. There is not much deep water until a little bit south of Whyalla and even then, only about 20 metres. The chart above shows four anchorage swing areas off Whyalla. Wallaroo is also quite shallow. The channel is about 10 metres depth into Wallaroo.

There is insufficient water depth around Port Pirie, Wallaroo and Port Bonython to operate even Panamax ships. Cape Class are right out!

LaughingLaughing
SA_trains
Crikey!!

Someone should tell Arrium this.

http://www.arrium.com/our-businesses/arrium-mining/infrastructure/middleback-ranges-supply-chain
  SA_trains Deputy Commissioner

Location: ACT
Whoever has thought up this plan would seem to have not consulted a nautical chart. Spencer Gulf is quite shallow. Infact, there is verrrrrrry little deep water. Check out this chart here: http://fishing-app.gpsnauticalcharts.com/i-boating-fishing-web-app/fishing-marine-charts-navigation.html#11/-33.0655/137.8567

(note that you may need to change depth to metres and that depth is lowest astronomical tide)

There is a very long narrow channel leading into Port Pirie. Surrounding that channel out to some distance are shallow waters that are generally around 4 metres depth. Out a bit further are a few deeper holes around 15 metres depth. Those depths are barely adequate for small coastal ships. A Panamax ship (50,000/80,000 tonnes) have a draft of about 12 metres. There is not much deep water until a little bit south of Whyalla and even then, only about 20 metres. The chart above shows four anchorage swing areas off Whyalla. Wallaroo is also quite shallow. The channel is about 10 metres depth into Wallaroo.

There is insufficient water depth around Port Pirie, Wallaroo and Port Bonython to operate even Panamax ships. Cape Class are right out!

LaughingLaughing
Crikey!!

Someone should tell Arrium this.

http://www.arrium.com/our-businesses/arrium-mining/infrastructure/middleback-ranges-supply-chain
wogman

There is deeper water over by Whyalla, Handimax ships are 40,000 to 50,000 tonnes. The harbour channels are about  10 metre water depth at low tide. I can't find a decent reference for the draft of a Capesize, but, they are bigger than Neopanamax (18 m draft) so I assume a greater draft than 18 metres! Anchorages TP 3 and TP 4 are in about 20 metre water which may be possible. The problem is, if there is bad weather, then that water may not be deep enough to navigate safely. Anyway, I still find Capesize vessels being a bit doubtful..... (or should that be hopeful??)
  David Peters Dr Beeching

Location: "With Hey Boy".
Does the port at Wallaroo see any use whatsoever?
Yes grain is still exported, but all road served.

So residents would prefer a large number of truck movements through their town to a single train movement?
Stupid thing to say.

The nature of the catchment means that Wallaroo has always been largely road served. The amount delivered by rail was never big in the greater scheme of things and a fair bit of that would now go via the rail served silo at Snowtown.
bingley hall
Not really as stupid as it sounds and is basically correct though if Wallaroo was a major export port which it is not not being restricted by the depth of water. In the future if Wallaroo is kept as a grain holding site and the berth deepened then the answer to that question will undoubtedly be yes about the trucks in the town.
  Pressman Spirit of the Vine

Location: Wherever the Tin Chook or Qantas takes me
Does the port at Wallaroo see any use whatsoever?
Yes grain is still exported, but all road served.

So residents would prefer a large number of truck movements through their town to a single train movement?
Stupid thing to say.

The nature of the catchment means that Wallaroo has always been largely road served. The amount delivered by rail was never big in the greater scheme of things and a fair bit of that would now go via the rail served silo at Snowtown.
Not really as stupid as it sounds and is basically correct though if Wallaroo was a major export port which it is not not being restricted by the depth of water. In the future if Wallaroo is kept as a grain holding site and the berth deepened then the answer to that question will undoubtedly be yes about the trucks in the town.
David Peters
As mentioned in my earlier post Trucks from North and East skirt around the township (I even posted a friggin map!)
The rail corridor passes through the middle of the "cbd" of Wallaroo (and as mentioned a lot of it is built over!)
  Radioman Chief Train Controller

Hello SA Trains and All ,

I am I correct in saying that there is also a rather inconvenient reef in Spencer Gulf , only discovered about a decade ago ( longer ? ) by the RAN Aerial Survey using lasers  if I recall the article the Captain was amazed no ship had foundered on it,

Regards, Radioman
  bingley hall Minister for Railways

Location: Last train to Skaville
Hello SA Trains and All ,

I am I correct in saying that there is also a rather inconvenient reef in Spencer Gulf , only discovered about a decade ago ( longer ? ) by the RAN Aerial Survey using lasers  if I recall the article the Captain was amazed no ship had foundered on it,

Regards, Radioman
Radioman
There well may be, but Capesize ships have been anchoring offshore from Whyalla and visiting Port Bonython for quite some years now without issue. But let's not let the facts get in the way of a good story.

Pirie might be another matter, but then the chances of the project going ahead are very slim to say the least.
  kipioneer Chief Commissioner

Location: Aberfoyle Park
Hello SA Trains and All ,

I am I correct in saying that there is also a rather inconvenient reef in Spencer Gulf , only discovered about a decade ago ( longer ? ) by the RAN Aerial Survey using lasers  if I recall the article the Captain was amazed no ship had foundered on it,

Regards, Radioman
Radioman
I would suggest that this has been known about for a long time.

There was a story on ABC RN's Off Track back in 2015 about an occasional cricket match between Port Pirie and Whyalla yachties on Cockle Spit in the middle of the gulf between the two cities.

The spit is exposed every few years.

It can be found here: The Spencer Gulf Wars
  rhino Chief Commissioner

Location: Oakbonk SA
The "reef" discovered 10 or so years ago was much further south in the gulf, and was a seamount which had gone undiscovered due to the grid nature of bathymetric surveys. They happened to move the grid over a little bit for an updated survey, and found a seamount which until then had sat in a grid square but not on a survey line (it was very small in area). And yes, they were quite surprised that no ship had ever run into it, so I guess the gulf is reasonably shallow over it.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
How much of Port Pirie Port which has rails is actually available for use?
  SA_trains Deputy Commissioner

Location: ACT
Hello SA Trains and All ,

I am I correct in saying that there is also a rather inconvenient reef in Spencer Gulf , only discovered about a decade ago ( longer ? ) by the RAN Aerial Survey using lasers  if I recall the article the Captain was amazed no ship had foundered on it,

Regards, Radioman
Radioman

Hi Radioman,

Sorry can't comment on the reef/bank, but the system you are talking about is called LASER Airborne Depth Sounder (LADS). It is operated by the Hydrographic service in the Navy. LADS underwent test and evaluation 15-20 years ago in South Australia. There is also a commercial version operated out of Adelaide (or at least it used to be).

I've had a quick look at the Chart, and whilst there is lots of shallow water in the Gulf, I suspect the main reason no one has parked themselves on it is that larger vessels probably stick to the middle which seems to be the main channel. Good chance fishermen have known where it was for sometime as often that's where the fish are! Perhaps a case of good fortune over good navigation!

Cheers
  rwatts Junior Train Controller

Location: Adelaide SA
Sorry can't comment on the reef/bank, but the system you are talking about is called LASER Airborne Depth Sounder (LADS). It is operated by the Hydrographic service in the Navy. LADS underwent test and evaluation 15-20 years ago in South Australia. There is also a commercial version operated out of Adelaide (or at least it used to be).
SA_trains

LADS is much older than that, as suggested by its original name of WRELADS and dates back to 1975.  First trial flights were in 1976-77.  My own involvement on the periphery goes back to the early 1980s by which time trials were being flown in a C47.  LADS went operational with the RAN in 1993 but development was still continuing by DSTO and its partners.  It came about because the RAN had estimated it would take about 80 years for a full survey of the Australian shelf using depth sounders.
  kipioneer Chief Commissioner

Location: Aberfoyle Park
Sorry can't comment on the reef/bank, but the system you are talking about is called LASER Airborne Depth Sounder (LADS). It is operated by the Hydrographic service in the Navy. LADS underwent test and evaluation 15-20 years ago in South Australia. There is also a commercial version operated out of Adelaide (or at least it used to be).

LADS is much older than that, as suggested by its original name of WRELADS and dates back to 1975.  First trial flights were in 1976-77.  My own involvement on the periphery goes back to the early 1980s by which time trials were being flown in a C47.  LADS went operational with the RAN in 1993 but development was still continuing by DSTO and its partners.  It came about because the RAN had estimated it would take about 80 years for a full survey of the Australian shelf using depth sounders.
rwatts
There is also a private organisation Fugro LADS headquartered here in Kidman Park that is a spin-off from that original research.    Mark Sinclair heads it up.    Owned by the Dutch Fugro group it works worldwide and also works closely with the RAN.

It was another division of Fugro that conducted the underwater search for MH370 using techniques more suited for deep water rather than the relatively shallow water that LADS can map.
  rwatts Junior Train Controller

Location: Adelaide SA
There is also a private organisation Fugro LADS headquartered here in Kidman Park that is a spin-off from that original research.    Mark Sinclair heads it up.    Owned by the Dutch Fugro group it works worldwide and also works closely with the RAN.

It was another division of Fugro that conducted the underwater search for MH370 using techniques more suited for deep water rather than the relatively shallow water that LADS can map.
kipioneer
I was never involved in the commercialisation side.  I'm aware there's quite a history in that area as well - originally for example BHP was involved in partnership with Vision Systems - but it's way off topic!

Yes, LADS maxes out around 70m depth from memory but that is fine for its purpose which it does extremely well.
  62440 Chief Commissioner

Getting back to Hawsons, they were still looking at options when the orer priced crashed as far as I am aware. The Braemar miners wouldn't work together so there were options including Whyalla, Port Bonython, 15km north of Wallaroo by rail, Port Pirie etc with direct loading or barge transfer. The slurry line was to a fixed offshore vessel with side transfer to larger ore carriers. Other rail projects were on the Eyre Peninsula with a large multi user port near Ungarra.
  allan Chief Commissioner

Those pubs just out of Broken Hill are alas no longer with us.
kipioneer
I've had a look, and you're not wrong! Silverton is the only survivor. I knew where Quondong was, and had to look hard to find any trace.  Not quite sure what to make of Stephens Creek, now... but the likelyhood of burninig a chop in the creekbed again is nil.

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