Inland rail: Station costs derailed Shepparton line option

 

News article: Inland rail: Station costs derailed Shepparton line option

AN ALTERNATIVE inland rail route through Shepparton was considered but rejected early on because the costs did not stack up.

  LancedDendrite Chief Commissioner

Location: North Haverbrook; where the monorail is king!
How steep are the grades looking on the QLD part of the inland. A full DS train might need 8 locomotives to get a full DS train up the hill.
simstrain
Have you ever considered using a question mark at the end of your questions?

The answer you seek is on the Inland Rail website.

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  Pressman Spirit of the Vine

Location: Wherever the Tin Chook or Qantas takes me
RTT ...... only one railway corridor was built from scratch to DS standards and that was Alice Springs to Darwin.

the Trans line, Kalgoorlie to Perth, Port Augusta to Adelaide, Crystal Brook to Parkes were all modified to allow DS
Australian National did the Trans, PA to Adelaide and Crystal Brook to Broken Hill off their own back. Kal to Perth by WAGR and Broken Hill to Goobang Junction by NSWGR
Agreed, although I doubt there was a hell of alot to do between Perth and Parkes to convert to DS.

I think some of the clearances were originally a lower height DS and later improved with various capital projects.
RTT_Rules
From Forrestfield (suburban Perth) to Midland there are 5 overbridges, then a further 17 over bridges to Parkeston.
Then two more overbridges to Spencer Junction, three in Port Augusta. The loop line adjacent to Port Augusta station was lower to allow clearances on two of these. Over bridge at Port Germein, another just north of Crystal Brook, Dowds Hill tunnel just east of Peterborough, Overbridge at Cockburn, and two overbridges in Broken Hill
Total of 31.
I believe Dowds Hill Tunnel was the last to be completed (a 135m Armco tunnel under state Hwy B56)
Since ARTC took over the DIRN, the standards for any overbridge clearance on the DIRN was change to allow double stack clearances as a minimum height.
Because of this standard all new overbridges and tunnels on the inland line will be built to allow double stack clearances.
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland

Because of this standard all new overbridges and tunnels on the inland line will be built to allow double stack clearances.
Pressman
The minimum overhead clearance standard should be 7100 mm

The minimum width clearance Is around 2500 mm each side of the track centre line.

These are the standards used for new construction projects In Victoria.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
RTT ...... only one railway corridor was built from scratch to DS standards and that was Alice Springs to Darwin.

the Trans line, Kalgoorlie to Perth, Port Augusta to Adelaide, Crystal Brook to Parkes were all modified to allow DS
Australian National did the Trans, PA to Adelaide and Crystal Brook to Broken Hill off their own back. Kal to Perth by WAGR and Broken Hill to Goobang Junction by NSWGR
Agreed, although I doubt there was a hell of alot to do between Perth and Parkes to convert to DS.

I think some of the clearances were originally a lower height DS and later improved with various capital projects.
From Forrestfield (suburban Perth) to Midland there are 5 overbridges, then a further 17 over bridges to Parkeston.
Then two more overbridges to Spencer Junction, three in Port Augusta. The loop line adjacent to Port Augusta station was lower to allow clearances on two of these. Over bridge at Port Germein, another just north of Crystal Brook, Dowds Hill tunnel just east of Peterborough, Overbridge at Cockburn, and two overbridges in Broken Hill
Total of 31.
I believe Dowds Hill Tunnel was the last to be completed (a 135m Armco tunnel under state Hwy B56)
Since ARTC took over the DIRN, the standards for any overbridge clearance on the DIRN was change to allow double stack clearances as a minimum height.
Because of this standard all new overbridges and tunnels on the inland line will be built to allow double stack clearances.
Pressman
Considering the distance, not alot of structures and hence the win for the operators was huge.
  cootanee Chief Commissioner

Location: North of the border!
Most of the Cootamundra - Macarthur railway alignment needs a total rebuild, to get rid of the steam age alignments.

Is there an opportunity to build a bypass of Cootamudra for Mel - Syd and Syd - Parkes, using some of this new proposed diversion ?

We all know the main south needs realignment but who is going to do that. The Feds aren't going to invest in it when the priority is the inland and the NSW Government isn't going to get the ARTC to build new alignments on it's behalf.
...
simstrain

The 2010 inland rail study noted ARTC’s forward plans for double stacking from Melbourne to Parkes (Sydney–Cootamundra in 2015 and Cootamundra–Melbourne in 2016). There were a raft of projects advised to Infastructure Australia that didn't happen.

Federal guvmnt investment in the years following the ARTC NSW lease signing was essentially triage. The follow up investment from the feds didn't happen. Even the Inland Railway funding is funny money.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
The Inland project will get DS from Brisbane to Melbourne via Illabo and south.

What are the obstacles north of Illabo to SSFL for DS?
  Pressman Spirit of the Vine

Location: Wherever the Tin Chook or Qantas takes me
The Inland project will get DS from Brisbane to Melbourne via Illabo and south.

What are the obstacles north of Illabo to SSFL for DS?
RTT_Rules
Six Tunnels, and numerous overbridges
  cootanee Chief Commissioner

Location: North of the border!
The Inland project will get DS from Brisbane to Melbourne via Illabo and south.

What are the obstacles north of Illabo to SSFL for DS?
Six Tunnels, and numerous overbridges
Pressman

Biggest obstacle was $214m (2008) Rolling Eyes

In its 2008 IA submission ARTC indicated Melbourne – Sydney double stacking provided operators a cost saving of 1.5% to 2.5% and significant additional capacity. They suggested a 2015/16 timeframe in a high growth scenario. The report also referred to the intermodal terminal at Moorebank as facilitating the introduction of double-stacking.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
The Inland project will get DS from Brisbane to Melbourne via Illabo and south.

What are the obstacles north of Illabo to SSFL for DS?
Six Tunnels, and numerous overbridges

Biggest obstacle was $214m (2008) Rolling Eyes

In its 2008 IA submission ARTC indicated Melbourne – Sydney double stacking provided operators a cost saving of 1.5% to 2.5% and significant additional capacity. They suggested a 2015/16 timeframe in a high growth scenario. The report also referred to the intermodal terminal at Moorebank as facilitating the introduction of double-stacking.
cootanee
Thanks for that, shows you that perhaps S-M on its own probably isn't worth the effort, but if the Inland is built to DS, then the cost-benefit analysis has significantly less cost and also includes freight to Adelaide/Perth/Darwin and would more than likely completely change the economics and hence within 5 to 10 years of the Inland being built DS trains would be headed to Sydney.

Additional questions/assistance
1) Within last 6 weeks in one of the many Inland threads, someone posted the Western Qld coal current coal sources/tonnages and future projects expected, maybe Sulla. I've looked but I cannot find. If someone can point me right direction, appreciated.

2) Probably a year ago, someone posted the current tonnages on rail for inter-capital freight, ie S-B, S-M, B-M, S-A etc again in one of the many Inland threads. I have Sims in my head, again if someone can point me in the right direction I would appreciate it.

I'll keep looking

Regards
Shane
  cootanee Chief Commissioner

Location: North of the border!
...
I'll keep looking
RTT_Rules

http://www.inlandrail.artc.com.au/documents
Good place to start as it includes the 2010 study as well as the latest business case.
  james.au Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW

Thanks for that, shows you that perhaps S-M on its own probably isn't worth the effort, but if the Inland is built to DS, then the cost-benefit analysis has significantly less cost and also includes freight to Adelaide/Perth/Darwin and would more than likely completely change the economics and hence within 5 to 10 years of the Inland being built DS trains would be headed to Sydney.

Additional questions/assistance
1) Within last 6 weeks in one of the many Inland threads, someone posted the Western Qld coal current coal sources/tonnages and future projects expected, maybe Sulla. I've looked but I cannot find. If someone can point me right direction, appreciated.
RTT_Rules

Agreed RE DS from Illabo-Sydney.  Though big issues would be things like Bethungra spiral.  But in other threads its been suggested that perhaps with modern power, this is no longer required.

On 1), I asked for this, but didn't get a response.  IR business case assumes 12.9mt in 2024-25 and 19.5mt for the rest of the project assessment (to 2069-70).  Average travel distance (back solving from the NTK data) is 322km (round trip I think that has to be).
  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney
Could gauge changing wagons be of use here?

Inland rail: Station costs derailed Shepparton line option
x31
If gauge changing wagons were any good (ie variable gauge axles) then the makers would already be advertising in Australian rail magazines and websites. Which they are not.

In the 1920s, over 200 gauge changing devices were found to be unsatisfactory, and consequently were not adopted.

The high and mighty Lord Harold Clapp was totally against any gauge device other than complete gauge conversion of the track, and who is X31 to criticised this policy.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
The Inland project will get DS from Brisbane to Melbourne via Illabo and south.

What are the obstacles north of Illabo to SSFL for DS?
Six Tunnels, and numerous overbridges

Biggest obstacle was $214m (2008) Rolling Eyes

In its 2008 IA submission ARTC indicated Melbourne – Sydney double stacking provided operators a cost saving of 1.5% to 2.5% and significant additional capacity. They suggested a 2015/16 timeframe in a high growth scenario. The report also referred to the intermodal terminal at Moorebank as facilitating the introduction of double-stacking.
cootanee
Thats $214 for the whole route, I'm guessing a reasonable bit less from Illabo and route to Stockibal.
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland

Agreed RE DS from Illabo-Sydney.  Though big issues would be things like Bethungra spiral.  But in other threads its been suggested that perhaps with modern power, this is no longer required.
james.au
Not knowing the local terrain around Cootamudra  

Is there an opportunity to build a rail bypass of Cootamudra for Melbourne - Sydney trains using the new proposed Illabo - Stockinbingal diversion, than turning East at Stockinbingal and roughly following B94 Burley Griffin Way than rejoining to Main South between Jindalee and Wallendbeen (Sydney - Parkes trains could also use this diversion)

Could render the Up track through the Bethungra Spiral redundant ?
  BDA Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney
What sort of gradients would this involve .
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
The Inland project will get DS from Brisbane to Melbourne via Illabo and south.

What are the obstacles north of Illabo to SSFL for DS?
Six Tunnels, and numerous overbridges

Biggest obstacle was $214m (2008) Rolling Eyes

In its 2008 IA submission ARTC indicated Melbourne – Sydney double stacking provided operators a cost saving of 1.5% to 2.5% and significant additional capacity. They suggested a 2015/16 timeframe in a high growth scenario. The report also referred to the intermodal terminal at Moorebank as facilitating the introduction of double-stacking.
cootanee
Not doubting what you say but 1.5% to 2.5% saving from double stack seems odd to me.

Broadly speaking:

  • Halve your rolling stock requirement
  • Halve you rolling stock maintenance
  • Halve your crew costs
  • Halve your track access charges for wagon tare
  • Halve the hauled wagon tare
  • Halve your terminal track requirements

I realise that the above is crude and probably not achievable but looks a hell of a lot better than 1.5% to 2.5% to me.

I bet the transition from semi trailer to B-double saved Linfox more than about 2%
  cootanee Chief Commissioner

Location: North of the border!
The Inland project will get DS from Brisbane to Melbourne via Illabo and south.

What are the obstacles north of Illabo to SSFL for DS?
Six Tunnels, and numerous overbridges

Biggest obstacle was $214m (2008) Rolling Eyes

In its 2008 IA submission ARTC indicated Melbourne – Sydney double stacking provided operators a cost saving of 1.5% to 2.5% and significant additional capacity. They suggested a 2015/16 timeframe in a high growth scenario. The report also referred to the intermodal terminal at Moorebank as facilitating the introduction of double-stacking.
Not doubting what you say but 1.5% to 2.5% saving from double stack seems odd to me.

Broadly speaking:

  • Halve your rolling stock requirement
  • Halve you rolling stock maintenance
  • Halve your crew costs
  • Halve your track access charges for wagon tare
  • Halve the hauled wagon tare
  • Halve your terminal track requirements

I realise that the above is crude and probably not achievable but looks a hell of a lot better than 1.5% to 2.5% to me.

I bet the transition from semi trailer to B-double saved Linfox more than about 2%
YM-Mundrabilla
Maybe ARTC was being ultra conservative Surprised

Just to clarify, in its 2008 IA submission, ARTC broke down the DS cost as Sydney-Coota $214m and Coota - Mel $107m. It also noted 4 deviations between Sydney - Coota at a cost of $351m for completion by 2014 (no details though).
  arctic Deputy Commissioner

Location: Zurich
Looking to the cost benefit of DS I looked up the book "Piggyback and Containers" by David J DeBoer. A history of Rail Intermodal. It gives the following data on page 173:

Cost for 1000 mile haul / 6000 ft train
1 89 Foot Trailer Cars $413.00 per box
2 89 Foot Car Container $401.00 per box
3 Spine Trailer         $413.00 per box
4 Spine Container         $400.00 per box
5 Stack Container         $312.00 per box
6 Roadrailer                 $430.00 per box

Benefit of DS 5 vs 4 is 22.00%



So on the US experience the DS benefit between a spine car and a DS car train is 22%. No wonder the operators would want it, if true.

Cheers
  cabidass Chief Train Controller

Just for the uninitiated, a Shepparton route would skip Wang and connect to Albury?
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Just for the uninitiated, a Shepparton route would skip Wang and connect to Albury?
cabidass
I think the proposal would follow the existing BG route joining the interstate at Seymor.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Maybe ARTC was being ultra conservative Surprised

Just to clarify, in its 2008 IA submission, ARTC broke down the DS cost as Sydney-Coota $214m and Coota - Mel $107m. It also noted 4 deviations between Sydney - Coota at a cost of $351m for completion by 2014 (no details though).
cootanee
The southern route is ultra-cheap and you can see why they are doing it.

The route to Sydney is fairly cheap and very practical and viable to me once they get to Coota. DS trains to Melbourne, Adelaide, Darwin and Perth has to be attractive.
  LancedDendrite Chief Commissioner

Location: North Haverbrook; where the monorail is king!
Just for the uninitiated, a Shepparton route would skip Wang and connect to Albury?
cabidass
Nope. This is the usually-accepted Shepparton route as championed by National Trunk Rail and the Food Bowl Inland Rail Alliance:
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

Just for the uninitiated, a Shepparton route would skip Wang and connect to Albury?
cabidass

How exactly does it do that? Has Albury magically moved 143km's west.

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