Port Adelaide to get new train station served by 1km rail spur

 
  Halo Chief Train Controller

I agree with RTT, a two tier timetable would be ideal. Is it correct the Port Adelaide spur is to be 1km? For (at a rough guess) 300m train?
That can't be right, I still think if you need a 1km train extension, you'd be better getting on a bus that has stops 300m or 500m apart.

Taking a train from Adelaide to Brighton, you spend more time at stops (or braking and accelerating) than you do travelling.

I'm all for convenience, but trains from the big 3 lines are way too slow.

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  kipioneer Chief Commissioner

Location: Aberfoyle Park
There was plans to build a multi story modern hotel there as well near or alongside the Number 1 shed, but with hotel rooms in the CBD in places empty or whole floors locked out of use in places would a high class hotel ever get booked out down there, I doubt it in the least because tourist wise it is to far off the beaten track really.
There is a new multi storey hotel built in only the past couple of years between No. 1 shed and Nelson Street, over the road from the British.

The developer is the same fellow.
Actually it is still being built as on Google Earth they show it as 2017 and it still has scaffolding around the building! I still say it will be a white elephant though for who ever owns it! But as long as it is not government money being wasted what does anyone really care.
David Peters
http://www.questapartments.com.au/properties/sa/port-adelaide/quest-port-adelaide/overview

There is another building being built behind No 1 Shed and the Quest Hotel and a lot of stall holders have left the market in No. 1 Shed prior to it being demolished.
  62430 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Metro Adelaide
There is a new multi storey hotel built in only the past couple of years between No. 1 shed and Nelson Street, over the road from the British.

The developer is the same fellow.
Actually it is still being built as on Google Earth they show it as 2017 and it still has scaffolding around the building! I still say it will be a white elephant though for who ever owns it! But as long as it is not government money being wasted what does anyone really care.
David Peters
There are two buildings, one the Quest serviced apartment hotel next to the quay which is operational and a second nearer St Vincent St which is very much under construction at present.
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

I agree with RTT, a two tier timetable would be ideal. Is it correct the Port Adelaide spur is to be 1km? For (at a rough guess) 300m train?
Halo
Just to be clear, if it happens* the distances involved would be:
New spur: 1.0km
Alberton station to new Baker St station: 1.8km
Length of a train: 25/50/75m (1/2/3 cars)

* I would not put money on it, lots of these proposals in Adelaide vanish into black holes. Best not to get too excited until shovels hit the ground.
  David Peters Dr Beeching

Location: "With Hey Boy".
Yes a lot of these schemes for things get put up before an election to make it look like the govt is actually doing something for the electors. But after they get re-elected most are conveniently forgotten or the plug gets pulled on them. Most people see it as a gross waste of money any how for 1km of railway track that at the moment goes no where really and it could be years before it actually does go somewhere. It will not encourage anyone to really go to the Port at all and being hidden like it would almost is not going to be used that much at all.

Now a tourist that goes to the Port by train, lets say Mr and Mrs Average here, go to the old Port Adelaide station because it is nearer the shops etc and they can stroll through and see the shops etc you can easily walk just strolling along between the current railway station, , Port Canal shopping centre and the Port Mall shopping centre, the last one is situated right in the CBD of Port Adelaide if you want to go walkabout to have a look as well. Now they do go for a walk say around the place and decide to go back to Adelaide by train. Now as the new station is well back off the main road and cannot be seen to clearly then they will simply back track a bit to get back to the old Port Adelaide station to get back to the city. Even if signs are put up, you still have to find the station if you have never been there before or you do not know your way around.  In other words they will use what they know.

And if at the moment they take the train to the new station and all they can see is the NRM, Car Park, police station rear and the rear of the courts and a lot of run down industrial buildings then they are not going to stay long, probably going back on the train that bought them there first up. More so if they find that they have a long walk through virtually nothing though to get somewhere! Most Tourists are elderly or middle aged at least and the woman at least like to go window shopping etc not just a long walk for nothing really.

Sure you can get a map or check it out on Google Earth or something, but how often have those maps etc on there been really accurate though.
  patsstuffnow Junior Train Controller

I have just moved out of Central Port Adelaide, I was very close to no 1shed, Quest etc. I had to park on street because of the age of my accommodation. Parking in the Port is a smeg. ( I am being polite !!)

The Quest apartments have reasonable occupancy levels with students and workers from ASC, silos, Adelaide Brighton Cement etc.

The new building next to it is a government building to house about 500 employees. It has cost about 100 car parks for public use and the latest version I have heard is that there will be no public parking.

All new developments in the Port are provided with inadequate parking and connections ( especially on weekends) are completely useless.
I tried to get from no 1 shed to the Cumberland hotel at Glanville on a Sunday. Took 2 hours because I missed a bus by a couple of minutes.
When the trains are not running it can take an hour to get to the city.





As a result the 500 employees are unlikely to add much to the demand for public transport into the Port as most will drive and park there.
To effectively service the (possible), alledged, pie in the sky new Port Dock service it will be necessary to obtain 1 or 2 new railcar sets.
(It is a pity Mullighan and cronies did not retain a few Jumbos for this service) A refurbishment and minor overhaul would have been cheaper  than new railcars!!

There have been a few people having discussions about a loop bus service to service the Port, Glanville, Port Adelaide station, the Clipper ship, market, rail museum, maritime museum, aviation museum, Fort Glanville, Semaphore, Largs Bay, for both locals and tourists.

Watching people wander around the Port on weekends is an interesting exercise. I can reasonably accurately pick nationalities of many tourists, spot the backpackers from the hostels, I met the German solar car challenge crew who were wandering aimlessly around the port as they could find nothing open at 5pm on a Sunday. If there had been a shuttle bus they would have loved to visit the museums, semaphore and Largs. but links were too hard as the trains were not running ( AGAIN, STILL, ALWAYS !!!!!).
I met them as I walked to the market for some donuts about 4.30 as nothing else was open except the pubs for a counter meal. There were about 15 of them and could not arrange their bus so I could not show them the rail museum, or go to see a 1.8km freight train, or the Islington or port flat rail yards. fish and chips on Semaphore jetty would have been good, . A trip to Belair by train would have revealed a great sunset, they may have seen some koalas. But because nothing works here , nothing happens, and no money gets spent.




A recent letter from Mullighan said that the beneficiaries of the service should pay for it. ( but he ignores the bus services provided free to large shopping centres etc. )

If you look at Labor power brokers have a look at the local members here. Mullighan, Close, Weatherill, Atkinson( being replaced by Melanauskis). You would think they would be pork barrelling the electorate but because so many people here are rusted on labor voters they think they do not need to do anything for the electorate.
Lets see what happens in March.
  patsstuffnow Junior Train Controller

I have just moved out of Central Port Adelaide, I was very close to no 1shed, Quest etc. I had to park on street because of the age of my accommodation. Parking in the Port is a smeg. ( I am being polite !!)

The Quest apartments have reasonable occupancy levels with students and workers from ASC, silos, Adelaide Brighton Cement etc.

The new building next to it is a government building to house about 500 employees. It has cost about 100 car parks for public use and the latest version I have heard is that there will be no public parking.

All new developments in the Port are provided with inadequate parking and connections ( especially on weekends) are completely useless.
I tried to get from no 1 shed to the Cumberland hotel at Glanville on a Sunday. Took 2 hours because I missed a bus by a couple of minutes.
When the trains are not running it can take an hour to get to the city.





As a result the 500 employees are unlikely to add much to the demand for public transport into the Port as most will drive and park there.
To effectively service the (possible), alledged, pie in the sky new Port Dock service it will be necessary to obtain 1 or 2 new railcar sets.
(It is a pity Mullighan and cronies did not retain a few Jumbos for this service) A refurbishment and minor overhaul would have been cheaper  than new railcars!!

There have been a few people having discussions about a loop bus service to service the Port, Glanville, Port Adelaide station, the Clipper ship, market, rail museum, maritime museum, aviation museum, Fort Glanville, Semaphore, Largs Bay, for both locals and tourists.

Watching people wander around the Port on weekends is an interesting exercise. I can reasonably accurately pick nationalities of many tourists, spot the backpackers from the hostels, I met the German solar car challenge crew who were wandering aimlessly around the port as they could find nothing open at 5pm on a Sunday. If there had been a shuttle bus they would have loved to visit the museums, semaphore and Largs. but links were too hard as the trains were not running ( AGAIN, STILL, ALWAYS !!!!!).
I met them as I walked to the market for some donuts about 4.30 as nothing else was open except the pubs for a counter meal. There were about 15 of them and could not arrange their bus so I could not show them the rail museum, or go to see a 1.8km freight train, or the Islington or port flat rail yards. fish and chips on Semaphore jetty would have been good, . A trip to Belair by train would have revealed a great sunset, they may have seen some koalas. But because nothing works here , nothing happens, and no money gets spent.




A recent letter from Mullighan said that the beneficiaries of the service should pay for it. ( but he ignores the bus services provided free to large shopping centres etc. )

If you look at Labor power brokers have a look at the local members here. Mullighan, Close, Weatherill, Atkinson( being replaced by Melanauskis). You would think they would be pork barrelling the electorate but because so many people here are rusted on labor voters they think they do not need to do anything for the electorate.
Lets see what happens in March.
  62440 Chief Commissioner

Re-reading the flummery, it appears the intent is to provide a rail link to serve the local residents around the station who live nearer than to the existing station and who commute to Adelaide. Have they done a survey to find out how many that is? Look at the aerial photo to give an idea. Not many. If this is for future benefit of Dock 1, let the developers pay for it and build it when it is needed. It is of no significant benefit in bringing visitors to the Port over the existing station, the existing station is next to Port Canal redevelopment and gives access directly on to Commercial Road with a walk under shop arcades to the waterfront. It will confuse visitors who have to choose from which station to go back to Adelaide.
In transport planning, 800m is an acceptable walk to a railway station, 400m to a busstop. From the station to, say the Dockside Tavern is 950m.
A better option, as suggested above is a circular bus with stops at the station, museums, Semaphore, Largs Pier ets, targeted at visitors. This is a lot cheaper especially now they are talking about double track!!!
  DJPeters Deputy Commissioner

Well going by the latest animation on YouTube about it the car park there is set to be decimated as well as they are planning on putting in a bus interchange as well there. This could mean all bus services go through the inter change or only some do. It seems a stupid idea though to change the buses to go there, as now if all services go there and no longer on Commercial Road what will happen to Commercial Road it is nearly dead now and doing this could be the final nail in the coffin so to speak. The business's that are there will lose their walk by trade as people get off of the bus! And then asking people to walk back to Commercial Road from there is a bit rich as well. Not a well thought out plan by a country mile but anything to win votes by the look of it.

I have to agree if the developers of that now industrial land want a train service then they have to get it put in, as it is now it really for the average user goes no where although it will make going to the NRM a lot easier though. But places like Macca's at the port  and the other eating places down that way will lose my custom as it would now be a special trip to get something from them rather than something to do while waiting for a train to arrive to go home. Not that I eat much Macca's though.
  patsstuffnow Junior Train Controller

I Just had a look at the "flummery"
Interesting points I noticed.
1 The "kiss n ride"

You can easily get there from the east.
So you drive down the prexy and lose the trouble and strife.
She can get a coffee from the food van parked there that will be really popular with the existing business places that have not gone broke yet.
Then you drive to your place of work.

OK , why not do the same at Mawson Lakes, Glanville, Port Adelaide?

There is only one platform there.
So you leave the crossovers travelling from Alberton, exit the up main and enter the Port section as double track.
Get to the end and revert to single track.

Return to Adelaide via the double track, retravel on the crossovers bit you use before.
Why is double  track needed? one kilometre each way, ten minutes tops, and five minutes turnaround.

So the section will clear in 15 minutes tops.

Would it not be better to have two platforms , ( or at least two tracks. !!!) so a (failed train), ( tourist train), ( charter) could load or wait clearance.

The platform itself has a cover that seems to be well clear of the train, made from expensive curved glass or plastic that would cost a fortune to keep clean.

The only protection from wind seems to be the shed at the rail museum.

My estimate of traffic on weekdays may be AM  inbound 200 max and 150 outbound.
                                                              PM inbound 150 and 200 outbound.

Weekends maybe on a festival weekend 500 each way.

So we have a double track able to serve a ten minute headway program to serve three or four hundred people.

A new railcar costs ???? 4 million or so. Would it be better to spend that money to buy 3 or four extra centre cars to bolster the size of the electric railcars? They would carry a lot more than 400 passengers per day.

Does anybody remember back to Media Mike and Phat Colon? They promised to standardise the metro system. So if that were to occur services could be introduced outside of Adelaide again, and the Rosewater loop could be reborn as a link towards , Barossa Valley, Virginia, ( Melbourne?????) Port Pirie etc.

I presume the need for the double track is to allow for a failed service, or to allow a five minute headway.
Well why not hook up the existing Rosewater line to provide a quick service from Elizabeth etc, so all the relocated Holdens workers could use public transport to get to the subcorp in under 2 hours.

I used to employ a worker who travelled from Elizabeth to Woodville to start work at 10 am.
Took almost two hours as the Gawler train would be held in the Adelaide yard to watch the Port line trains leave and wait the maximum time for the next one. Same occurred for the trip home.
The circle line bus would also add time as the bus would be held at the Woodville crossing waiting for the inbound train to depart, then you wait for the next train.
Using the circle line bus from Woodville to Islington involved changing bus at Arndale and quite a walk to change at Islington. And only fifty percent of trains stop at Islington. So delays were ridiculous.

Elsewhere there was discussion about services to Roseworthy.
There are several hundred houses there already, and many residents are forced to drive to Gawler. This 16.5mill would do a lot towards providing a good service to there.
That would be a better use of funds.
  patsstuffnow Junior Train Controller

I Just had a look at the "flummery"
Interesting points I noticed.
1 The "kiss n ride"

You can easily get there from the east.
So you drive down the prexy and lose the trouble and strife.
She can get a coffee from the food van parked there that will be really popular with the existing business places that have not gone broke yet.
Then you drive to your place of work.

OK , why not do the same at Mawson Lakes, Glanville, Port Adelaide?

There is only one platform there.
So you leave the crossovers travelling from Alberton, exit the up main and enter the Port section as double track.
Get to the end and revert to single track.

Return to Adelaide via the double track, retravel on the crossovers bit you use before.
Why is double  track needed? one kilometre each way, ten minutes tops, and five minutes turnaround.

So the section will clear in 15 minutes tops.

Would it not be better to have two platforms , ( or at least two tracks. !!!) so a (failed train), ( tourist train), ( charter) could load or wait clearance.

The platform itself has a cover that seems to be well clear of the train, made from expensive curved glass or plastic that would cost a fortune to keep clean.

The only protection from wind seems to be the shed at the rail museum.

My estimate of traffic on weekdays may be AM  inbound 200 max and 150 outbound.
                                                              PM inbound 150 and 200 outbound.

Weekends maybe on a festival weekend 500 each way.

So we have a double track able to serve a ten minute headway program to serve three or four hundred people.

A new railcar costs ???? 4 million or so. Would it be better to spend that money to buy 3 or four extra centre cars to bolster the size of the electric railcars? They would carry a lot more than 400 passengers per day.

Does anybody remember back to Media Mike and Phat Colon? They promised to standardise the metro system. So if that were to occur services could be introduced outside of Adelaide again, and the Rosewater loop could be reborn as a link towards , Barossa Valley, Virginia, ( Melbourne?????) Port Pirie etc.

I presume the need for the double track is to allow for a failed service, or to allow a five minute headway.
Well why not hook up the existing Rosewater line to provide a quick service from Elizabeth etc, so all the relocated Holdens workers could use public transport to get to the subcorp in under 2 hours.

I used to employ a worker who travelled from Elizabeth to Woodville to start work at 10 am.
Took almost two hours as the Gawler train would be held in the Adelaide yard to watch the Port line trains leave and wait the maximum time for the next one. Same occurred for the trip home.
The circle line bus would also add time as the bus would be held at the Woodville crossing waiting for the inbound train to depart, then you wait for the next train.
Using the circle line bus from Woodville to Islington involved changing bus at Arndale and quite a walk to change at Islington. And only fifty percent of trains stop at Islington. So delays were ridiculous.

Elsewhere there was discussion about services to Roseworthy.
There are several hundred houses there already, and many residents are forced to drive to Gawler. This 16.5mill would do a lot towards providing a good service to there.
That would be a better use of funds.
  DJPeters Deputy Commissioner

The current minister of Transport here has hinted that in the future it could be converted to a tram track, I am not saying it will be but he said it not me. So if that goes ahead and is done then it will need a double track and space has been allowed even on the single line part to actually do it.

10 minutes for a a kilometre is a bit long though, even the track that is there now takes less time than that, Adelaide Metro will rip up and relay the whole track to current standards on concrete sleepers so at the most it should take somewhere between 2 to 3 minutes and even that might be a gross exaggerating as well. By timetable it is supposed to that 9 minutes to get to Kilkenny and that is stopping all stations from Adelaide as well and that is 6 Km exactly as the 6 Km post is on the down platform at Kilkenny!
  patsstuffnow Junior Train Controller

Sorry David, I did not make it clear enough for you. 10 minutes tops was meant to be for the up and down journey combined.
And five minutes for a change of direction is also more than the allowed minimum time, but a few drivers still smoke.

Tops means maximum.

Do I need to explain minimum?

For such a short distance on existing track with minimal services, I would re sleeper the line as needed , use the existing signalling as it works already with the system,
But the rivers of gold labour party will make a track capable of 150 km hr speeds, use a foreign company  to provide the equipment, then place a 50kmhr restriction after the first accident.


I just read an earlier part of this thread about why not use Glanville instead.
Glanville is no longer used to terminate trains, when they occasionally run !!!

It is less than 1 km to Mullighans electorate office and there are seven hotels within walking distance.

Mullighan has not been seen on a train for a long time, and never goes near a pub here. ( It would be interesting to see if he would be served, just like getting sex in a brothel !!! LOLOLOL)

The electoral redistribution means his recently refurbished offices will no longer be in Lee.

While drinking in one of the pubs recently his name was mentioned and the comments were not very savoury about him.
One person had been to the station to organise his trip to the Grand Final. The recorded message on the platform said there would be no travel on Grand Final Day. Luckily I had heard the announcement that they would be delaying the latest ridiculous closure. If he had been forced to use a bus replacement he would not have gone.

The reason I mention pollies in pubs!
When I started work at Woodville Hotel we would regularly see Kevin Hamilton in the front bar.
He worked for the railways in his time at Port Pirie and would call in several times a year, buy a round and spend an hour or two with the punters.
When looking for sponsors for his heart health walks to Pirie he would call past , and get a good response.

He was willing to listen, and would help if someone had a problem.
Before the last Federal election I happened upon The PM in a pub at Torrensville.

That was a stage managed fiasco that had less credibility than a temperance tour of the Barossa Valley.

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