1200 Class Trial

 
  walfactor Station Staff

In previous posts mentioned that the NRE 1200 class were doing a trial in SA for couple of weeks / month, the time has long expired, and I may have missed some info.

Is the trial finished / extended, awaiting decision or Loco's placed back in storage, just like to know. please advise.

Wal Hurst

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  bingley hall Minister for Railways

Location: Last train to Skaville
Only used a handful of times.


To go back to the eastern states at some stage?
  greasyrhys Chief Commissioner

Location: MacDonald Park, SA
Both are currently being used to shunt at Penfield, neither have even left the SCT depot since March 16.
  David Peters Dr Beeching

Location: "With Hey Boy".
Both are currently being used to shunt at Penfield, neither have even left the SCT depot since March 16.
greasyrhys
If that is the case then it might just show that they are not quite right for SCT use on trains. But then again it could just be that the experiment was curtailed early and SCT are just getting their money's worth out of them so to speak.
  ThyRiverina Station Master

Both were transferred from SCT Barnawatha to the SSR / LVR yard at Cootamundra today, evaluation by SSR will take place over the next few weeks, GM27-GM22 were the assist loco's.
  greasyrhys Chief Commissioner

Location: MacDonald Park, SA
SCT only ended up using the Gensets on the 'wine train' for a week before being captive to Penfield yard until this week.
  bingley hall Minister for Railways

Location: Last train to Skaville
Both were transferred from SCT Barnawatha to the SSR / LVR yard at Cootamundra today, evaluation by SSR will take place over the next few weeks, GM27-GM22 were the assist loco's.
ThyRiverina
Evaluation by QUBE........
  ThyRiverina Station Master

Both were transferred from SCT Barnawatha to the SSR / LVR yard at Cootamundra today, evaluation by SSR will take place over the next few weeks, GM27-GM22 were the assist loco's.
Evaluation by QUBE........
bingley hall
If you wish.
  David Peters Dr Beeching

Location: "With Hey Boy".
From the sound of things they are not all that they are cracked up to be. Similar findings to the use of these things elsewhere though a bit. Good idea in practice but reality is another thing altogether.  They are good as shunt type locos genset loco's but not that good as mainline locomotives though by the looks of it! They are not what you would call a roaring success anywhere really as very few are in service as against normal diesel locomotives!
  Beta4Me Locomotive Driver

From the sound of things they are not all that they are cracked up to be. Similar findings to the use of these things elsewhere though a bit. Good idea in practice but reality is another thing altogether.  They are good as shunt type locos genset loco's but not that good as mainline locomotives though by the looks of it! They are not what you would call a roaring success anywhere really as very few are in service as against normal diesel locomotives!
David Peters
What's "wrong" with them?
  David Peters Dr Beeching

Location: "With Hey Boy".
Like I have said they are good for shunting and you can get a bit more power when you need it if the load is beyond the setting you are on but on the mainline you need all the horsepower you can spare at any one time in case one of the other units in the consist drop's off line. Starting up extra motors just after your train has had a normal unit drop off line while going up a grade is going to need some very careful manipulation to get it done. Generators do not respond favorably to being started with a load on the motor, you have to start it up and get it to full revs before you introduce the load onto it.  Meanwhile your train has possibly come to a halt because of lack of horsepower to move the train. Also to keep the motors on all genset's warm and ready they would need to be in idle all the time if not in actual traction use. That makes for easy start up if needed!

Commonwealth Railways years ago tried an experiment that kept the GM's idling overnight to keep them warm for the next days use, but it was found they guzzled more juice idling than they did actually out on the track in service. So it was back to closing them down each night and starting them up again in the mornings.

On a mainline it could be a while till you are able to again move the train even slowly to clear the line, and what happens if a genset or two just does not wan't to start or work at all, you have even less power available then. So really whether the complete loco fails and you cannot pull the load or a genset drops on that locomotive on the same train, it amounts to the same thing lack of power to clear the grade or section. Also a genset loco would be a lot more complicated wiring wise than a normal diesel would, by virtue of the fact that each genset can be bought on line or closed down as needed. You would not like to be the driver that has to take out a train and be a bit dubious about actually how much horsepower you really have especially if it is in an emergency or something!

So it might simply be the simple things in life are still the best, rather than trying to persevere with a complicated one off type of loco. Yes I know there is more than one of them in Australia and in use!

If used as a shunter you have less worries as if it fails or a genset or two fail and it is out of service any diesel locomotive can do the shunting in a pinch if needed. Also if it fails in a yard you can get it put somewhere out of the way as well till repairs are made to it. They are virtually standard diesel Genset's in them and you only have had to use one to know that if anything can go wrong with one it probably will.
  steam4ian Chief Commissioner

From what I can see they are probably underpowered; three engines at 700bhp leaves less than 2000 hp available for traction. The other problem with them could be that they are "different" which makes operators less likely to persevere with problems; too easy to blame the new fangled thing than to see the problem as something simple.

It would be illuminating to discover what the problems, if any are rather than speculate.
  xdford Chief Train Controller

Like I have said they are good for shunting and you can get a bit more power when you need it if the load is beyond the setting you are on but on the mainline you need all the horsepower you can spare at any one time in case one of the other units in the consist drop's off line. Starting up extra motors just after your train has had a normal unit drop off line while going up a grade is going to need some very careful manipulation to get it done. Generators do not respond favorably to being started with a load on the motor, you have to start it up and get it to full revs before you introduce the load onto it.  Meanwhile your train has possibly come to a halt because of lack of horsepower to move the train. Also to keep the motors on all genset's warm and ready they would need to be in idle all the time if not in actual traction use. That makes for easy start up if needed!

Commonwealth Railways years ago tried an experiment that kept the GM's idling overnight to keep them warm for the next days use, but it was found they guzzled more juice idling than they did actually out on the track in service. So it was back to closing them down each night and starting them up again in the mornings.

On a mainline it could be a while till you are able to again move the train even slowly to clear the line, and what happens if a genset or two just does not wan't to start or work at all, you have even less power available then. So really whether the complete loco fails and you cannot pull the load or a genset drops on that locomotive on the same train, it amounts to the same thing lack of power to clear the grade or section. Also a genset loco would be a lot more complicated wiring wise than a normal diesel would, by virtue of the fact that each genset can be bought on line or closed down as needed. You would not like to be the driver that has to take out a train and be a bit dubious about actually how much horsepower you really have especially if it is in an emergency or something!

So it might simply be the simple things in life are still the best, rather than trying to persevere with a complicated one off type of loco. Yes I know there is more than one of them in Australia and in use!

If used as a shunter you have less worries as if it fails or a genset or two fail and it is out of service any diesel locomotive can do the shunting in a pinch if needed. Also if it fails in a yard you can get it put somewhere out of the way as well till repairs are made to it. They are virtually standard diesel Genset's in them and you only have had to use one to know that if anything can go wrong with one it probably will.
David Peters
I agree with much of what David has said here but I believe tthe experiment of GM's left idling was more related to the nature of the early 567B engines which were considered to be "leakers" and the idling was to stop gaskets from contracting too much when cooling. EMD eventually supplied a "better gasket" and the need was no longer there. The idling of locos here in Victoria went to the early 70's as I recall. I cannot quite see how an idling loco can consume more than out on the tracks given the way the racks are set...

for what it is worth

Trevor
  DBclass Chief Commissioner

Location: Western Australia
I dont think its possible for an engine to use more fuel idling then at power. I think its probably a case of unproductive fuel use. My car tells me it uses .5L/ hour idling. .7L/ hour with the airconditioner on. 5.0-5.5L/ hour at 100kph. My thinking is the harder then engine is working, the lower the % of unproductive fuel use. At rest 100% of my cars fuel is doing not much. At 100kph only about 30% is based on no load fuel consumption at similar engine speed to 100kph. The rest is doing work.

An EMD engine is probably burning a few hundred liters a night idling. I recall one US shortline saying the shed they built for their locos paid for itself in no time as they had to keep their locos running to prevent freezing. Inside they didn't have to.

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