6029 for sale! ( Now sold )
Showtime
Chief Train Controller
x31
Chief Commissioner
Location: gallifrey
https://www.slatteryauctions.com.au/product/709/885022/slattery-tenders/1953-beyer-garrett-ad-60-class-4-8-4-4-8-4-articulated-steam-locomotive
Just terrible this has happened to the museum.
steven_h
Train Controller
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Officially this is an EOI, I suppose it'll take the right offer to complete the deal.
It also seems like they'll vet the new owner, to determine that it is used appropriately and not destroyed:
To submit a complying EOI you are required to send the following:
(a) A completed EOI Application, including the Tender Application and Offer Schedule / EOI Catalogue (Annexure 1), executed by the interested party where indicated.
(b) A deposit (see “4. DEPOSIT” overleaf) equal to 10% of the total offer price.
(c) A completed proposal for the intended use of the asset (see “5 Proposal”).
And then for the proposal:
5. PROPOSAL This proposal should address the following points as a minimum.
Preservation - Please provide details of your maintenance and asset preservation plan.
Business Plan - How do you intend to use this asset.
Ownership/Governance - What is your ownership and governance structure?
Engagement - Who will manage the asset, consideration will be given to qualification of personnel, engineers, work safe policies and Australian Regulator compliance regime.
Location - Where is the asset likely to be stabled?
Community - How do you intend to engage with the rail community and community generally?
It also seems like they'll vet the new owner, to determine that it is used appropriately and not destroyed:
To submit a complying EOI you are required to send the following:
(a) A completed EOI Application, including the Tender Application and Offer Schedule / EOI Catalogue (Annexure 1), executed by the interested party where indicated.
(b) A deposit (see “4. DEPOSIT” overleaf) equal to 10% of the total offer price.
(c) A completed proposal for the intended use of the asset (see “5 Proposal”).
And then for the proposal:
5. PROPOSAL This proposal should address the following points as a minimum.
Preservation - Please provide details of your maintenance and asset preservation plan.
Business Plan - How do you intend to use this asset.
Ownership/Governance - What is your ownership and governance structure?
Engagement - Who will manage the asset, consideration will be given to qualification of personnel, engineers, work safe policies and Australian Regulator compliance regime.
Location - Where is the asset likely to be stabled?
Community - How do you intend to engage with the rail community and community generally?
Graham4405
The Ghost of George Stephenson
Location: Dalby Qld
Looks like they are expecting to sell it quickly though!
The locomotive needs to be collected by 4pm Friday 29th September 2017.
steven_h
Train Controller
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Here we all thinking it was safe and sound at NSWRTM.
I wonder if they'll put in a bid?
I wonder if they'll put in a bid?
Valvegear
Oliver Bullied, CME
Location: Norda Fittazroy
Anywhere but Dorrigo, please.
michaelgm
Chief Commissioner
Is their anyone other than RTM who would have funds and ability to satisfy requirements of the tender contract?
And I'm with Valvegear not Dorrigo.
And I'm with Valvegear not Dorrigo.
Mufreight
Train Controller
Location: North Ipswich
Is their anyone other than RTM who would have funds and ability to satisfy requirements of the tender contract?Ok time for all enthusiasts to put their money where their so often opened mouths are,
And I'm with Valvegear not Dorrigo.
Is RTM prepared to set up a fund for enthusiasts to subscribe to for the purchase of this heritage loco, there is not much time but 1500 enthusiasts at $100 per head should be a starter with a group such as RTM and if RTM can convince the NSW Government of the heritage value of this loco and go $ for $ then it should be doable.
The question is is RTM interested.
8077
Chief Train Controller
Location: Crossing the Rubicon
Is their anyone other than RTM who would have funds and ability to satisfy requirements of the tender contract?Ok time for all enthusiasts to put their money where their so often opened mouths are,
And I'm with Valvegear not Dorrigo.
Is RTM prepared to set up a fund for enthusiasts to subscribe to for the purchase of this heritage loco, there is not much time but 1500 enthusiasts at $100 per head should be a starter with a group such as RTM and if RTM can convince the NSW Government of the heritage value of this loco and go $ for $ then it should be doable.
The question is is RTM interested.
Let's setup a crowd funding campaign?
Spletsie
Chief Commissioner
A huge amount of time and money was put into restoring 6029 to operating condition.
It's a shame that it has come to this.
I hope the NSW Government steps in to ensure it remains in New South Wales and is properly cared for.
It's a shame that it has come to this.
I hope the NSW Government steps in to ensure it remains in New South Wales and is properly cared for.
Spletsie
Chief Commissioner
Here we all thinking it was safe and sound at NSWRTM.A minor point, but there is no NSWRTM any more.
I wonder if they'll put in a bid?
It is now the NSW Rail Museum.
http://www.nswrailmuseum.com.au
Graham4405
The Ghost of George Stephenson
Location: Dalby Qld
1500 enthusiasts at $100 per head should be a starterRailpage has 44226 members. If we can average $5 a head we'll be doing even better...
nswtrains
Chief Commissioner
I would like to see the sale stopped and some in depth examination done of the actual ownership of 6029. The loco was originally purchased by the then Commonwealth Government for eventual inclusion in the proposed National Museum Canberra. Due to that establishment becoming a bit of a basket weavers museum, 6029 was deeded to Canberra Branch of ARHS. I have not seen the deed but I was just wondering if the Federal Government still has some residual interest in 6029 to prevent it being used for purposes outside the deed. If so, this might be a way to halt the sale process until the details can be worked out.1500 enthusiasts at $100 per head should be a starterRailpage has 44226 members. If we can average $5 a head we'll be doing even better...
This whole liquidation has been a fiasco from start to finish with the only persons coming out trumps being the former directors of the museum. Rightfully they did cease trading when they realised the game was over, but who else knew the circumstances of the museum and what information was passed onto the members. They do have some continuing disclosure obligations under the Corporations Act. Has anybody considered referring this to ASIC for their view on the matter?
SydneyCider
Chief Train Controller
What type of figure do they expect this loco to fetch? and would NSWRM be interested in keeping it, considering size/maintenance and operational costs? There's no denying it's heritage value and the fact it's likely the only AD60 Garratt to (probably) be in operational condition - not to mention all the time, dedication, effort and money that went into restoring it.
Mufreight
Train Controller
Location: North Ipswich
What type of figure do they expect this loco to fetch? and would NSWRM be interested in keeping it, considering size/maintenance and operational costs? There's no denying it's heritage value and the fact it's likely the only AD60 Garratt to (probably) be in operational condition - not to mention all the time, dedication, effort and money that went into restoring it.Depending on the Government be it NSW or Commonwealth to do anything by itself is asking a bit much but if the enthusiasts and the public raise a significant amount then probably both governments would kick in, it would be too damaging for them not to.
The big question is if NSWRM is willing to act as the bank for donations and take on the stewardship of the loco, if so where does Mr/Mrs Enthusiast send their donations I am on the pension but I could stretch to $100.oo, it is to me a worthwhile cause, in my youth I had the misfortune to work the beast on a number of occasions seemingly when it was overdue for a washout and a tone up but it never let us down just made our lives miserable for a shift.
Bogong
Chief Commissioner
Location: Essendon Aerodrome circa 1980
How many outfits could actually tender for this beast? It's huge and the requirements outlined in the pdf document for proposals on preservation and future use would knock out scrap metal detailers and dewy eyed train spotters. I suspect a rock bottom tender of say $1000 might secure it for the NSW rail museum.
It's sad when groups of dedicated amateurs find themselves running what is effectively a business with multi million dollar assets and then they find that they can't cope. I've seen this sort of thing happen in all sorts of areas, from the South Gippsland Railway to club run ski lodges to country art galleries.
I think the lesson has to be learnt that amateur groups with huge and valuable assets, but no one with an MBA (or a person with equivalent experience in running a successful mid sized business), have to bite the bullet and hire a proper experienced and qualified manager for say, one day a week to develop a good business plan and keep an eye on the day to day finances and running of the group. That's probably the best way to avoid them going bust like ARHS ACT and many other amateur groups.
It's sad when groups of dedicated amateurs find themselves running what is effectively a business with multi million dollar assets and then they find that they can't cope. I've seen this sort of thing happen in all sorts of areas, from the South Gippsland Railway to club run ski lodges to country art galleries.
I think the lesson has to be learnt that amateur groups with huge and valuable assets, but no one with an MBA (or a person with equivalent experience in running a successful mid sized business), have to bite the bullet and hire a proper experienced and qualified manager for say, one day a week to develop a good business plan and keep an eye on the day to day finances and running of the group. That's probably the best way to avoid them going bust like ARHS ACT and many other amateur groups.
michaelgm
Chief Commissioner
Is EOI from offshore a possibility?
A shock jock on Sydney radio has an interest in steam trains, has referred to 3801 on occasion. I will endeavour to make contact later today, the more people aware on sale of the garret the better.
A shock jock on Sydney radio has an interest in steam trains, has referred to 3801 on occasion. I will endeavour to make contact later today, the more people aware on sale of the garret the better.
The Man in Blue
Deputy Commissioner
Location: Trackside in Baiyin NW China!
Anywhere but Dorrigo, please.Forbes?
apw5910
Deputy Commissioner
Location: Location: Location.
Nice one, Centurion!Anywhere but Dorrigo, please.Forbes?
Bevan Wall
Deputy Commissioner
I'm quite astonished that the locomotive is being sold, and really feel for the dedicated group of volunteers who put all the effort in to restoring 6029.
I suspect that there has already been some form of government intervention, because as has already been pointed out, the conditions of the sale are such that it would appear that only a well functioning heritage organisation would be "allowed" to purchase it. If it was a normal liquidation sale the asset would simply go to the highest bidder, no strings attached. You would have to think that Transport Heritage NSW is probably the only organisation at the moment that could satisfy the conditions of sale, at least in NSW. Having said that though we can not expect that the liquidator would just accept a token bid. If that is so, we have to be prepared to raise funds quickly to enable THNSW to make an appropriate offer.
What is unclear though is if an overseas organisation would be eligible to purchase the locomotive. You would have to imagine that there would be British groups who would be keen to acquire 6029, although the transport costs would be astronomical.
BW
I suspect that there has already been some form of government intervention, because as has already been pointed out, the conditions of the sale are such that it would appear that only a well functioning heritage organisation would be "allowed" to purchase it. If it was a normal liquidation sale the asset would simply go to the highest bidder, no strings attached. You would have to think that Transport Heritage NSW is probably the only organisation at the moment that could satisfy the conditions of sale, at least in NSW. Having said that though we can not expect that the liquidator would just accept a token bid. If that is so, we have to be prepared to raise funds quickly to enable THNSW to make an appropriate offer.
What is unclear though is if an overseas organisation would be eligible to purchase the locomotive. You would have to imagine that there would be British groups who would be keen to acquire 6029, although the transport costs would be astronomical.
BW
james.au
Minister for Railways
Location: Sydney, NSW
If that is so, we have to be prepared to raise funds quickly to enable THNSW to make an appropriate offer.
THNSW is backed by the NSW Government and should not be going out and asking the public for donations to continue their efforts.
mikesyd
Chief Commissioner
Location: Lurking
I'm quite astonished that the locomotive is being sold, and really feel for the dedicated group of volunteers who put all the effort in to restoring 6029.I wouldn't mind betting that some agreement for THNSW to take 6029 has already been informally agreed to and that the EOI advert has been put up to satisfy any later claims that some cosy deal had been made without allowing others to bid.
I suspect that there has already been some form of government intervention, because as has already been pointed out, the conditions of the sale are such that it would appear that only a well functioning heritage organisation would be "allowed" to purchase it. If it was a normal liquidation sale the asset would simply go to the highest bidder, no strings attached. You would have to think that Transport Heritage NSW is probably the only organisation at the moment that could satisfy the conditions of sale, at least in NSW. Having said that though we can not expect that the liquidator would just accept a token bid. If that is so, we have to be prepared to raise funds quickly to enable THNSW to make an appropriate offer.
What is unclear though is if an overseas organisation would be eligible to purchase the locomotive. You would have to imagine that there would be British groups who would be keen to acquire 6029, although the transport costs would be astronomical.
BW
The Liquidators themselves are the ones who 'come out trumps' - a nice juicy fee for their services, subtracted before the creditors take a haircut and get the cuttings left on the floor.
I feel sorry for all the volunteers in Canberra who have lost all that they worked for over the years.
ssaunders
Train Controller
It's an EOI, the more restrictions on it the less money, but being the largest value asset and no doubt more fees to recover they need to test the market.
Rumours flying from train drivers and workers at Thirlmere wanting to put up their hands for it as a group. Maybe having it go to Pommie land might mean more people in fact see it there than ever would here.
RTM gets what, $8M per year from the Govt............perhaps less wages to 'volunteer coordinators' of various things could lead to it staying in Thirlmere. But if you look from RTMs view they have a 60 now. Sure nice to have one going but look at the track record of late on their locomotive availability and there is a rumour 3801 will return soon.
Perhaps it is the cheapest way for the RTM to get an operable locomotive?
ss
Rumours flying from train drivers and workers at Thirlmere wanting to put up their hands for it as a group. Maybe having it go to Pommie land might mean more people in fact see it there than ever would here.
RTM gets what, $8M per year from the Govt............perhaps less wages to 'volunteer coordinators' of various things could lead to it staying in Thirlmere. But if you look from RTMs view they have a 60 now. Sure nice to have one going but look at the track record of late on their locomotive availability and there is a rumour 3801 will return soon.
Perhaps it is the cheapest way for the RTM to get an operable locomotive?
ss
Z1NorthernProgress2110
Chief Commissioner
Location: Burnie, Tasmania
I believe by law of the poms want it, they need to apply for a permit from the federal goverment, part of the movable cultural heritage items.
I also believe the permit is very hard to obtain
I also believe the permit is very hard to obtain
Bogong
Chief Commissioner
Location: Essendon Aerodrome circa 1980
I doubt it would fit inside the loading gauge of any British line, and I doubt any UK group would go to the MASSIVE expense of importing an operational locomotive, only to stick it in a warehouse and never be able to run it.
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