Qantas extends Emirates deal, switches from Dubai to Singapore as Sydney-London stopover

 
  GeoffreyHansen Minister for Railways

Location: In a FAM sleeper
Qantas extends Emirates deal, switches from Dubai to Singapore as Sydney-London stopover


[img]http://www.abc.net.au/news/image/4246190-3x2-460x307.jpg[/img]
PHOTO: Emirates CEO Tim Clark and Qantas CEO Alan Joyce when they first signed the partnership in 2012.

Qantas plans to extend its partnership with Middle Eastern carrier Emirates for an additional five years.
Key points:
  • Qantas expects benefits from its extended tie-up with Emirates of $80m a year
  • Singapore to return as Qantas Europe stopover from March 2018
  • "Qantas is now renegotiating from a position of greater strength" — aviation analyst Neil Hansford

However, it will need to once again seek authorisation from regulators, including the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission (ACCC), to continue coordinating pricing, schedules, sales and tourism, and code-sharing with Emirates.
The Australian airline expects the further five-year agreement will result in "net benefits of more than $80 million a year from 2019".

The Centre for Aviation's chairman Peter Harbison agrees that the continued alliance will be beneficial to Qantas.

"It will save a lot of money, because it won't have to compete with Emirates," he said.

"The best way is to join them."
One notable change is that Qantas will drop Dubai as the stopover point for its Europe-bound flights.

Instead, it will revert to using Singapore as the transit point for its Sydney-London A380 services from March 25 next year.
In recent years, consumer surveys have shown that passengers express a strong preference for an Asian stopover — rather than the Middle East — on flights to Europe.

Five years ago, Qantas stopped sending its Australian flights to London and Europe via Singapore — around the time it entered its alliance with Emirates.

"Our partnership has evolved to a point where Qantas no longer needs to fly its own aircraft through Dubai," Qantas chief executive officer Alan Joyce said.

"That means we can redirect some of our A380 flying into Singapore and meet the strong demand we're seeing in Asia."
Qantas 'renegotiating from a position of strength'However, Strategic Aviation Solutions' chairman Neil Hansford was a little more cynical.

"If the alliance were to happen, the transit had to be via Dubai — but Qantas is now renegotiating from a position of greater strength," he said.

Last week, the company delivered its second-largest underlying profit on record, totalling $1.4 billion.

"For Qantas to maintain its market share on the Australia-London route, it needed to restore Singapore as a stopover destination," Mr Hansford said.

"Otherwise, they would lose the passengers, who don't want to stop at Dubai, to other airlines."

One clear winner in this deal is Singapore's Changi Airport, which will get a substantial boost to its air hub status.

In a separate statement, the Changi Airport Group praised the Qantas decision and said it would provide an additional 3,806 one-way seats, which is an increase of 5.5 per cent, every week (on Singapore-Australia routes).

Australia is among the Singapore airport's top five country markets in terms of passenger traffic — with more than 5.5 million passengers travelLonbeningapore and Australia every year.

To me this sounds like winding down of the partnership in response to the direct Perth to London. It's still a shame Qantas won't be flying to other European cities. Does the deal benefit Qantas much?

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  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
QF9 which flew from Melbourne to London via Singapore is now being recast. Fly from Melbourne to London via Perth on the new 787 platform.

This could be the start of the end for the alliance.

Do emirates still offer a superior service to qantas?MetroFemme
The new Heathrow service ex Melbourne goes Melbourne - Perth - Heathrow with the final leg being around 19 hours non stop. I gather QANTAS is likely to charge a hefty premium for this service which may well mean they are perhaps the better part of double the fare of other airlines Melbourne to London.

Time will tell, but a 12 hour leg is more than enough for me so I will continue with one stop services with other airlines for four main reasons:

  1. Avoid the ~19 hour non stop leg.
  2. Enjoy a break roughly half way. Even if only for an hour or two.
  3. The price.
  4. QANTAS does not go anywhere in Europe much less anywhere that I want to go.

I doubt that the alliance with Emirates will end because of the ability to get almost anywhere in Europe direct via Dubai and thereby avoid Heathrow. This will also mean that there is no way one can get to one of these cities via Dubai using QANTAS even part of the way. There will be no QANTAS flights to Dubai as I understand it.

I have found that service often varies more between flights/crews than between the major airlines. At the moment Austrian Airlines is by far our favourite when travelling to Europe even though they are paired with Thai or Cathay to Bangkok or Hong Kong.  We have found both Thai and Cathay to provide patchy service probably dependent upon the crew rather than the airline.
  GeoffreyHansen Minister for Railways

Location: In a FAM sleeper
It's a shame Qantas didn't look at flying an A330 to Dubai.
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
It's a shame Qantas didn't look at flying an A330 to Dubai.
GeoffreyHansen
Too far for an A330 ?
ETOPS ?
  petan Chief Commissioner

Location: Waiting to see a zebra using a zebra crossing!
It's a shame Qantas didn't look at flying an A330 to Dubai.
GeoffreyHansen
The following aircraft data comparison website allows entries for most major plane types so just enter any two types and compare

http://www.aviatorjoe.net/go/compare/A330-200/787-9/
  MetroFemme Assistant Commissioner

Very few options from Melbourne to London on qantas now. The main routing is MELBOURNE Perth London but qantas on website are not promoting the Melbourne Singapore London route which was on emirates partial way. Can anyone else find them?
  MetroFemme Assistant Commissioner

Very few options from Melbourne to London on qantas now. The main routing is MELBOURNE Perth London but qantas on website are not promoting the Melbourne Singapore London route which was on emirates partial way. Can anyone else find them?
  petan Chief Commissioner

Location: Waiting to see a zebra using a zebra crossing!
The much touted Qantas London to Perth B787-9 service has a slight difficulty as the planes effectively will need to carry extra fuel in case they have to divert at Perth due weather or what ever such as the occasional / rare disabled aircraft blocking the main runway.  The following websites note a lack of suitable diversion airports near Perth means that international flights headed for Perth have to carry extra fuel reserves so that they can divert to Melbourne, Alice Springs or Port Hedland until the fog clears. Thus the flight could well be London to Melbourne, Adelaide or Darwin etc  If Adelaide is closed due weather etc at the same time as Perth than the flight could be London to Melbourne non stop. Other emergency options are RAAF bases in that WA /SA region such as Curtin with a 3039 x 45 metre runway, Edinburgh (Adelaide) with a 2560 x 45 m RW, Learmonth 3047 x 45 RW, Pearce (Perth) 2439 x 45m RW, Woomera 2372 x 45m RW (very security restricted). I haven't checked the RAAF runway pavement aircraft mass limitations but a plane direct from London would not be at max fuel load anyway near the end of the trip

http://www.radioaustralia.net.au/international/2012-07-11/fog-in-perth-caused-delays-and-diverts-flights/977612

http://www.aviationwa.org.au/2015/11/09/perth-airport-upgrade-to-reduce-delays-and-diversions/

https://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/2013/09/25/how-a-2nd-perth-airport-could-make-australia-london-non-stop-work/
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
The much touted Qantas London to Perth B787-9 service has a slight difficulty as the planes effectively will need to carry extra fuel in case they have to divert at Perth due weather or what ever such as the occasional / rare disabled aircraft blocking the main runway.  The following websites note a lack of suitable diversion airports near Perth means that international flights headed for Perth have to carry extra fuel reserves so that they can divert to Melbourne, Alice Springs or Port Hedland until the fog clears. Thus the flight could well be London to Melbourne, Adelaide or Darwin etc  If Adelaide is closed due weather etc at the same time as Perth than the flight could be London to Melbourne non stop. Other emergency options are RAAF bases in that WA /SA region such as Curtin with a 3039 x 45 metre runway, Edinburgh (Adelaide) with a 2560 x 45 m RW, Learmonth 3047 x 45 RW, Pearce (Perth) 2439 x 45m RW, Woomera 2372 x 45m RW (very security restricted). I haven't checked the RAAF runway pavement aircraft mass limitations but a plane direct from London would not be at max fuel load anyway near the end of the trip

http://www.radioaustralia.net.au/international/2012-07-11/fog-in-perth-caused-delays-and-diverts-flights/977612

http://www.aviationwa.org.au/2015/11/09/perth-airport-upgrade-to-reduce-delays-and-diversions/

https://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/2013/09/25/how-a-2nd-perth-airport-could-make-australia-london-non-stop-work/
petan
Hope that they don't have to put down at Forrest.Smile
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
The much touted Qantas London to Perth B787-9 service has a slight difficulty as the planes effectively will need to carry extra fuel in case they have to divert at Perth due weather or what ever such as the occasional / rare disabled aircraft blocking the main runway.  The following websites note a lack of suitable diversion airports near Perth means that international flights headed for Perth have to carry extra fuel reserves so that they can divert to Melbourne, Alice Springs or Port Hedland until the fog clears. Thus the flight could well be London to Melbourne, Adelaide or Darwin etc  If Adelaide is closed due weather etc at the same time as Perth than the flight could be London to Melbourne non stop. Other emergency options are RAAF bases in that WA /SA region such as Curtin with a 3039 x 45 metre runway, Edinburgh (Adelaide) with a 2560 x 45 m RW, Learmonth 3047 x 45 RW, Pearce (Perth) 2439 x 45m RW, Woomera 2372 x 45m RW (very security restricted). I haven't checked the RAAF runway pavement aircraft mass limitations but a plane direct from London would not be at max fuel load anyway near the end of the trip

http://www.radioaustralia.net.au/international/2012-07-11/fog-in-perth-caused-delays-and-diverts-flights/977612

http://www.aviationwa.org.au/2015/11/09/perth-airport-upgrade-to-reduce-delays-and-diversions/

https://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/2013/09/25/how-a-2nd-perth-airport-could-make-australia-london-non-stop-work/
petan
They won't be able to divert to Melbourne or Alice Springs due to both airports being out of range, however they may divert to Exmouth, Broome or Port Hedland if required.
  duttonbay Minister for Railways

They won't be able to divert to Melbourne or Alice Springs due to both airports being out of range, however they may divert to Exmouth, Broome or Port Hedland if required.
railblogger

One hopes that fog in Perth doesn't correspond with major cyclones in the north west.
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
They won't be able to divert to Melbourne or Alice Springs due to both airports being out of range, however they may divert to Exmouth, Broome or Port Hedland if required.

One hopes that fog in Perth doesn't correspond with major cyclones in the north west.
duttonbay
As well as the plane being about 2 hours north of Perth.
  GeoffreyHansen Minister for Railways

Location: In a FAM sleeper
Out of curiosity has Broome or Port Headland ever been looked at for an international stopover point?
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Out of curiosity has Broome or Port Headland ever been looked at for an international stopover point?
GeoffreyHansen
I doubt it due to limited infrastructure and no real need:

'Port Hedland International Airport has two runways and an interconnecting taxiway.  The main runway (Runway 14/32) is 2500m long and 45 m wide. It is used for regular passenger transport and is suitable for aircraft up to 100,000kgs (MTOW).  The second runway (Runway 18/36) is only for general aviation aircraft limited to 5,700kg (MTOW). It is 1000m long and 18m wide.'

The foregoing would seem to limit the airport to the Boeing 717, Fokker 100 and Boeing 737-800 regularly used up there.

Big sign on the Terminal a few years ago when I spent time there said:

'Port Hedland International Airport'  (or words to that effect).

At that stage I heard that there were occasional flights to SE Asia (Bali, I think but not sure as I never saw one ?).

For good measure there was also an air charter company in a large tin shed at Port Hedland called 'Polar Air'. Smile
  mikesyd Chief Commissioner

Location: Lurking
Port Hedland has had at least one 747 - a Lufthansa flight from Singapore to Sydney made an emergency landing some years back due to a medical issue.
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Port Hedland has had at least one 747 - a Lufthansa flight from Singapore to Sydney made an emergency landing some years back due to a medical issue.
mikesyd
Thanks Mikesyd.
Just as well I said 'would seem to limit....'.Smile
That would be a sight to see. Even better than Air Force 1 at Essendon.Rolling Eyes
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
If my memory serves me correctly, a 747, which could have been Alitalia, landed at Essendon instead of Tullamarine. Landing was OK but there was a great deal of hullabaloo in making a safe take off.  I must see if I can find details.
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
If my memory serves me correctly, a 747, which could have been Alitalia, landed at Essendon instead of Tullamarine. Landing was OK but there was a great deal of hullabaloo in making a safe take off.  I must see if I can find details.
Valvegear
Please do.
I know that there have been a number of 'close calls' with potential international landings at Essendon but AF 1 was the only 747 that I saw on the ground there..
Bring back the Comets, Super Constellations and Britannias. Smile
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
I'm blowed if I can find it.
There have been a number of landings aborted at the last minute ( Garuda, Cathay Pacific et al ), and I would have bet a couple of quid on Alitalia actually touching down. Maybe the ancient memory really has failed on this one. I'll keep looking.

Edit: I did some checking, and found that my memory was wrong. The aircraft didn't land but executed a missed approach from quite low level. All the hullabaloo which I mentioned was press speculation, not something that actually took place. I shall now go and put my red face on (blush.)
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/second-airport-location-to-be-identified-report-20120124-1qfwq.html
QANTAS EK Relationship renewed for another 5 years
  petan Chief Commissioner

Location: Waiting to see a zebra using a zebra crossing!
Port Hedland has had at least one 747 - a Lufthansa flight from Singapore to Sydney made an emergency landing some years back due to a medical issue.
Thanks Mikesyd.
Just as well I said 'would seem to limit....'.Smile
That would be a sight to see. Even better than Air Force 1 at Essendon.Rolling Eyes
YM-Mundrabilla
Assume that was the 'All the way with LBJ' trip as Tullamarine was not ready then?
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Port Hedland has had at least one 747 - a Lufthansa flight from Singapore to Sydney made an emergency landing some years back due to a medical issue.
Thanks Mikesyd.
Just as well I said 'would seem to limit....'.Smile
That would be a sight to see. Even better than Air Force 1 at Essendon.Rolling Eyes
Assume that was the 'All the way with LBJ' trip as Tullamarine was not ready then?
petan
I assume that it was LBJ.
It was certainly a US President and I think that he has been the only one to visit Melbourne.
  mikesyd Chief Commissioner

Location: Lurking
Port Hedland has had at least one 747 - a Lufthansa flight from Singapore to Sydney made an emergency landing some years back due to a medical issue.
Thanks Mikesyd.
Just as well I said 'would seem to limit....'.Smile
That would be a sight to see. Even better than Air Force 1 at Essendon.Rolling Eyes
Assume that was the 'All the way with LBJ' trip as Tullamarine was not ready then?
I assume that it was LBJ.
It was certainly a US President and I think that he has been the only one to visit Melbourne.
YM-Mundrabilla
LBJ visited Australia in 1966 - including Melbourne, and then Melbourne again in 1967 for Harold Holt's funeral - BUT - AF1 then was a 707 and was up to 1990 when they got the 2 x 747's.
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Port Hedland has had at least one 747 - a Lufthansa flight from Singapore to Sydney made an emergency landing some years back due to a medical issue.
Thanks Mikesyd.
Just as well I said 'would seem to limit....'.Smile
That would be a sight to see. Even better than Air Force 1 at Essendon.Rolling Eyes
Assume that was the 'All the way with LBJ' trip as Tullamarine was not ready then?
I assume that it was LBJ.
It was certainly a US President and I think that he has been the only one to visit Melbourne.
LBJ visited Australia in 1966 - including Melbourne, and then Melbourne again in 1967 for Harold Holt's funeral - BUT - AF1 then was a 707 and was up to 1990 when they got the 2 x 747's.
mikesyd
Thanks Mikesyd.
Just confirms that the memory plays tricks.  On reflection, I recall that it was bigger than anything ever seen at Essendon but I was obviously in error about it being a 747. There were also one or two large cargo planes but what they were I don't know.
Sorry if I misled anyone with the 747 bit.
I'll shut up now and get my coat...................Embarassed
  petan Chief Commissioner

Location: Waiting to see a zebra using a zebra crossing!
Port Hedland has had at least one 747 - a Lufthansa flight from Singapore to Sydney made an emergency landing some years back due to a medical issue.
Thanks Mikesyd.
Just as well I said 'would seem to limit....'.Smile
That would be a sight to see. Even better than Air Force 1 at Essendon.Rolling Eyes
Assume that was the 'All the way with LBJ' trip as Tullamarine was not ready then?
I assume that it was LBJ.
It was certainly a US President and I think that he has been the only one to visit Melbourne.
LBJ visited Australia in 1966 - including Melbourne, and then Melbourne again in 1967 for Harold Holt's funeral - BUT - AF1 then was a 707 and was up to 1990 when they got the 2 x 747's.
Thanks Mikesyd.
Just confirms that the memory plays tricks.  On reflection, I recall that it was bigger than anything ever seen at Essendon but I was obviously in error about it being a 747. There were also one or two large cargo planes but what they were I don't know.
Sorry if I misled anyone with the 747 bit.
I'll shut up now and get my coat...................Embarassed
YM-Mundrabilla
Don't give up just yet YM-Mundrabilla as even a Boeing 707 at Essendon was still a rare find and perhaps the USA Air Force One did so with a pavement concession. It was only a 1920 metre runway with Ansett and TAA B727 it pretty well usual limit. Qantas did not operate 707 out of Essendon as per their 1968 timetable. http://www.timetableimages.com/ttimages/qf/qf6806/

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