That Referendum / Postal Survey

 
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Just on the off chance logic still exists around here...

http://25logicalreasonstovoteno.com/

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  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Questions now being asked as to the secrecy of this survey/ballot/whatever as apparently the voting papers all carry an ABS bar code which can be matched back to the name of the recipient.

I have heard this issue raised a number of times but have heard no answer from the ABS.
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Just on the off chance logic still exists around here...

http://25logicalreasonstovoteno.com/
Logic does not exist and neither does the thread:

'
SORRY.

We're smeging stumped.

Check back soon.

'.
  Pressman Spirit of the Vine

Location: Wherever the Tin Chook or Qantas takes me
Questions now being asked as to the secrecy of this survey/ballot/whatever as apparently the voting papers all carry an ABS bar code which can be matched back to the name of the recipient.

I have heard this issue raised a number of times but have heard no answer from the ABS.
YM-Mundrabilla
Yes each has a unique barcode to be used check for fraudulent returns.

Funny people would scream if there wasn't some method of checking used!
  Big J Chief Train Controller

Location: In Paradise
Questions now being asked as to the secrecy of this survey/ballot/whatever as apparently the voting papers all carry an ABS bar code which can be matched back to the name of the recipient.

I have heard this issue raised a number of times but have heard no answer from the ABS.
YM-Mundrabilla
What is the concern, that "someone" is going to bother to see what I personally put on a survey?

Just like the census as it is managed by the ABS. Frankly I don't think anyone is going to bother to see how I responded to a survey. If they do then they will have issues as the Privacy legislation still applies and any misuse has severe consequences.

Remember the parliament has pushed for a "survey" and not for an actual vote, as in the proposed plebiscite or for that matter the actual parliamentarians vote as delegated in the same way that they do for every other piece of legislation.

I find it fascinating that this piece of legislation is requiring a "survey", when in the past it has been quite capably amended multiple times without this step. Will they now do a survey on media laws, defence procurement, the proposed changes to super board make up, etc etc etc.

My above comments does not reflect how I will respond to the survey, but the farcical nature of all this.

Very pathetic by so called grown up elected members. All this is about is not to enable citizens of Australia to have a say, but to prevent the political parties internal divisions turning into an all out war splitting the political parties on their own divisions. This equally applies to ALP not just the LNP. The ALP up until recently also had issues about enabling a conscious vote and are not covered in glory in this and the LNP, well political tactics to enable this to happen is a reflection of the split between the wet and dries, libertarians and social conservatives etc. This is all about those individual people trying to protect their jobs.

Very sad.

By the way if you are concerned about someone snooping how you responded to the survey, then simply don't respond like you don't have to answer those phone calls at 6pm seeking your opinion on whatever. It is a choice, this thing is not compulsory.

If this was an actual compulsory vote governed by electoral legislation then if you would have that additional protection.

Any complaints about this, then direct them to the parliamentarians and not the ABS. The ABS we directed to do this by them.

Go ahead and complain to your local member, it is your right to do so.
  RTT_Rules The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Dubai UAE
Questions now being asked as to the secrecy of this survey/ballot/whatever as apparently the voting papers all carry an ABS bar code which can be matched back to the name of the recipient.

I have heard this issue raised a number of times but have heard no answer from the ABS.
YM-Mundrabilla
Who would be a politician in Australia with the these sorts of comments

You are dammed if you do and a F___n lazy c__t if you don't.

If you don't like the survey, throw it in the bin, not returning reduces their work load.
  michaelgm Chief Train Controller

Will not participate, will not complain about result.
Form is express into the shredder.
  michaelgm Chief Train Controller

Back one page and sorry for the tardy reply.
I LIKE BRUSSEL SPROUTS. A minority I'm sure.
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
^ There is one in every party michaelgm...
  DJPeters Station Master

To be impolite here you can find out anything on just about anybody today if you really want to that is, things like phone books will give people your address, a Google search can turn up more than you think as well at times, also an electoral role will give you not only your name and address but also your occupation as well so that the voting official that crosses your name off, of the electoral role knows all this and could quite easily use it if needed. So why worry about a damn bar code on it. Even electoral papers are marked if you are observant enough! Google Earth can even show you your address and how to get there as well.

All this privacy clap track is just that clap track. Your name and probably most of your purchases etc are also easily obtained on line as well more so if you use a credit type card. Anything you do can be traced, but why get paranoid over it though, all it will do is make you lose sleep or hair worrying over nothing!

So why worry at all really either you put pen to paper or you don't, no big deal really to me!
  Valvegear The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Norda Fittazroy
I LIKE BRUSSEL SPROUTS. A minority I'm sure.
"michaelgm"
Unfortunately, on a family program like this one, I can't tell the old gag about brussels sprouts.Very Happy
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Children born to workers in houses of ill repute?
  Valvegear The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Norda Fittazroy
Sorry Aaron, no.
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
Very pathetic by so called grown up elected members. All this is about is not to enable citizens of Australia to have a say, but to prevent the political parties internal divisions turning into an all out war splitting the political parties on their own divisions. This equally applies to ALP not just the LNP. The ALP up until recently also had issues about enabling a conscious vote and are not covered in glory in this and the LNP, well political tactics to enable this to happen is a reflection of the split between the wet and dries, libertarians and social conservatives etc. This is all about those individual people trying to protect their jobs.

Very sad.
Big J
So very true.

When Labor where in power, and running the country, they had the chance to put this away, and yet, they were lead first by Kevin Rudd, a known God botherer, and then J. Gillard, a known atheist who had Mr. Rudd breathing down her neck the entire time she was sitting behing the big desk.

Julia Gillard could have been a much better leader than she was if she had of got the job by legitimate means (voted in as the leader by her party, then have the party voted in by the people), alas she was beholden to those around her that ousted Kevin, and was constantly under that same threat, until it eventually came for her and finished her off.

Then, If that wasn't bad enough, after witnessing the mess that was the 6 years the ALP were running the country, the Coalition have just gone and repeated it with Tony, Malcolm and whoever will be next (there will be someone else before the next election, that much is obvious).

This little postal survey is just an example of the total lack of political leadership this country has had for the last 10 years. I beleive the yes vote will get up and by a fair percentage (I'm predicting 65% to 35%), showing the Jellyfish in Canberra that it was all a waste of time and money, as the majority of the public have wanted it all along. As usual, the politicans are out of touch with the electorate. Of course they will never admit to it, spineless hacks the lot of them.
  RTT_Rules The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Dubai UAE
Very pathetic by so called grown up elected members. All this is about is not to enable citizens of Australia to have a say, but to prevent the political parties internal divisions turning into an all out war splitting the political parties on their own divisions. This equally applies to ALP not just the LNP. The ALP up until recently also had issues about enabling a conscious vote and are not covered in glory in this and the LNP, well political tactics to enable this to happen is a reflection of the split between the wet and dries, libertarians and social conservatives etc. This is all about those individual people trying to protect their jobs.

Very sad.
So very true.

When Labor where in power, and running the country, they had the chance to put this away, and yet, they were lead first by Kevin Rudd, a known God botherer, and then J. Gillard, a known atheist who had Mr. Rudd breathing down her neck the entire time she was sitting behing the big desk.

Julia Gillard could have been a much better leader than she was if she had of got the job by legitimate means (voted in as the leader by her party, then have the party voted in by the people), alas she was beholden to those around her that ousted Kevin, and was constantly under that same threat, until it eventually came for her and finished her off.

Then, If that wasn't bad enough, after witnessing the mess that was the 6 years the ALP were running the country, the Coalition have just gone and repeated it with Tony, Malcolm and whoever will be next (there will be someone else before the next election, that much is obvious).

This little postal survey is just an example of the total lack of political leadership this country has had for the last 10 years. I beleive the yes vote will get up and by a fair percentage (I'm predicting 65% to 35%), showing the Jellyfish in Canberra that it was all a waste of time and money, as the majority of the public have wanted it all along. As usual, the politicans are out of touch with the electorate. Of course they will never admit to it, spineless hacks the lot of them.
Gman_86
very true

I had a link to ABC story but gone now. It had the various surveys over the years on the same topic.

If I recall, during Little Johnnies time, a vote would have most likely failed. Even when JG was in power, it was still border line. Support has been growing at the rate of 1-2%pa, which is not surprising as the the population is turned over by roughly 1.2%pa and younger people tend to be more open minded to SSM.

So basically wait long enough and the general community feedback will pass it and support a leader who stands up to make the change. Of course when you have a PM who is personally opposed on religious grounds, ie Howard, Rudd and Abbott which combined have occupied the chair since 1996 for all but 4 years in total then things will be slow to change but they won't voted in on one policy so what do people expect?

Gillard had too many problems to even consider going down this path and the survey's at the time didn't really favour such a big political gamble and as '86 said when you take over PM in a coup, you have too many compromises and promises to meet and CO2 tax was the big one for her. Turnball has same issue, I'm 100% sure he would have introduced the legislation personally, but has to deal with too many commitments and promises to keep within his own support base and hence the vote is the middle ground the LNP back benches and Senate require. But because this has now dragged on since the election and much of it due to the ALP not supporting the referendum (note ALP did not support the high court challenge to stop the postal survey), I think the support base for SSM has grown as more people have actually thought about it more deeply.
  davesvline Chief Commissioner

Location: 1983-1998
Interestingly, regardless of how the mess came to be where the public are involved in having a say...... IMHO, its not so much whether you agree yes or no to the question to be asked, but rather how one side of the debate tried to get a decision (parliament deciding) because they were pretty certain they knew the result was going to go their way. The yes camp seemed absolutely scared about the public having a say, so they challenged it in court - and lost. Its like they didn't want you to have a say, because they weren't going to like the answer.

Ironically, the side wanting us to vote yes originally didn't want us to have a vote at all........

So its finally decided, we're having this "survey" and seemingly they're bar coded..... Now lets add to this "survey" by getting results matched to members of parliament in the lower house. I'd like the survey results read out by each member AFTER they've first stated what their vote would have been if parliament was to do the conscience vote that the YES side wanted.

Sure we all want to know the result, but lets also find out whether the elected members personal view IS or IS NOT representative of the view of their electorate AND HAVE THEM SAY SO!!! Humble pie anyone??

Be amusing to see if say Tony Abbott's or Bill Shorten's stated view is out of touch with their electorate??

Regards
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
Be amusing to see if say Tony Abbott's or Bill Shorten's stated view is out of touch with their electorate??
davesvline
As far as Abbott is concerned, we already know. According to consistent polling results, Abbott's electorate of Warringah has a very strong pro SSM base, one of the strongest in the country, so he has clearly been pushing an agenda that is at odds with the people that have repeatedly elected him to parliament since 1994.

That said, he has clearly stated that if the country vote for it, he will respect that when a bill is put before parliament, will be interesting to see if he actually follows through on that promise in the event of a successful Yes vote.

As for Shorten, I have not seen similar polling results for his seat of Maribyrnong, so I can not comment.
  HardWorkingMan Deputy Commissioner

Location: Echuca
I know the barcode on the Census was used to know which houses to chase up.  Once the information was in and scanned the link from the barcode to the address was deleted.

In this case I would expect the barcode is being used to prevent people copying their voting paper and mailing it in.  The barcode is on the form not the addressed letter so may not have been stored against the individual.  all it would be needed for is that if 2 or more forms with the same barcode arrive then all forms with that barcode will be ignored
  DJPeters Station Master

I know the barcode on the Census was used to know which houses to chase up.  Once the information was in and scanned the link from the barcode to the address was deleted.

In this case I would expect the barcode is being used to prevent people copying their voting paper and mailing it in.  The barcode is on the form not the addressed letter so may not have been stored against the individual.  all it would be needed for is that if 2 or more forms with the same barcode arrive then all forms with that barcode will be ignored
HardWorkingMan
Well they would need some way of checking that multiple voting were not sent in as they cannot very well cross you off a electoral roll like in a normal voting procedure so what is all the fuss really about. It just stops those imbeciles on both sides the yes or the no, making copies of the voting paper and sending them in. As you have said two identical ones arrive and one has to be discarded as a fake. I did mine today as I got it today, that is 30 seconds of my life I will never get back though! Just need to post it back now!
  Valvegear The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Norda Fittazroy
A report in this mornings Melbourne Age tells of a woman in Brunswick who found 17 unopened mail-outs in her backyard near the kids' cubby house.
You have to wonder at the amount of credibility the survey results will have.
  Carnot Chief Commissioner
  nswtrains Deputy Commissioner

People are losing contracts because they oppose SSM:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-09-19/same-sex-marriage-survey-canberra-business-ditches-contractor/8958176
Carnot
That's drawing a long bow and worthy of the type of beat up favored by the Murdoch gutter press. One example is one contract, not contracts which implies multiple contracts.
  Valvegear The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Norda Fittazroy
People are losing contracts because they oppose SSM:
"Carnot"
Let's stick to facts. One person was fired.
And whilst on the subject, two people lost their planned wedding venue (Ebenezer in Ballarat) because they're in favour of SSM. I didn't see you commenting on that.
  DJPeters Station Master

How often has someone privately disagreed with their boss and put up something on Facebook about it. Everybody has an opinion on things and you should have the right to express your opinion even if it offends some one. The world is going crazy of late anyway with this politically correct load of manure. Pretty soon the boss will be telling how to vote, when to breathe, or go to the toilet or whatever. People need to think for themselves and not be guided by what some imbecile puts up on a Facebook post that most likely no one will ever see unless some one points it out.

Like Dirty Harry said opinion's are like A**eholes, everyone has one!

If you support no then so be it, the same goes if you support yes. To each their own I say!
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
If you don't want to vote yes, then don't.

Once you start to shout loud and proud that you will vote no, then you need to accept that others won't like that. That isn't bullying, that is a consequence.

Voting no quietly doesn't hurt anybody.

Voting no loudly does hurt people.

It is the sound of judgement. Not judgement of your opinion (which is what the loud proponents of a no vote are experiencing) but the judgement of one of the basic aspects that make you the person you are.

It is a reminder of everything you heard as a child that told you that you were broken.

Voting Yes loudly doesn't denegrate anybody.

Voting No loudly does.

This is a vote for freedom, not to deprive some people of freedoms they already have, but to give those same freedoms to people that currently are deprived of them. Freedom isn't a pie, me getting a slice of it won't deprive anybody else of their slice.

Everybody deserves the chance to be happy.

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