Standard Gauge Victorian Steam

 
  DALEK Locomotive Fireman

Hi everyone,
I am just wondering with Steamrail's Wycheproof tour (last broad gauge steam train to Wycheproof) why the A2 class loco ran up to Maryborough seperatly in the early hours of the morning? Couldn't it just have ran with the rest of the train?
Also there is a rumour that a standard gauge R class will come to Victoria so tours can still run on the Murray Basing network. Is this true?

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  mikesyd Chief Commissioner

Location: Lurking
1. Ask Steamrail, they no doubt had a reason.

2. Rumour - a separate thread exists - don't hold your breath or fill up the foam tank.
  MetroFemme Assistant Commissioner

Can steamrail convert one of their r class locomotives for standard gauge?
  Donald Chief Commissioner

Location: Donald. Duck country.
They were designed to be gauge convertible for the imminent gauge conversion soon after they were built.
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Possible but not easy or cheap.
I would rather not imagine the potential accreditation issues. Maybe they will be easy, maybe they will be horrendous.
  HardWorkingMan Chief Commissioner

Location: Echuca
The R class and J class steamers were designed to be gauge convertible.  

Steamrail will have been through the accreditation of a 'new' (from an accreditation perspective) locomotive once with the A2 so doubtless they could do it with the R and J class if required. There will also hopefully already be an accredited standard gauge R class (766) by then which would help with the R class
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
The R class and J class steamers were designed to be gauge convertible.  

Steamrail will have been through the accreditation of a 'new' (from an accreditation perspective) locomotive once with the A2 so doubtless they could do it with the R and J class if required. There will also hopefully already be an accredited standard gauge R class (766) by then which would help with the R class
HardWorkingMan
Gauge conversion of an R class was not a simple as many seem to believe. There was a heap of design work necessary as 'designed to be gauge convertible' was something of an overstatement.

I have doubts that 766 will ever be accredited to do anything anywhere especially being located in NSW.
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
Yes, Steamrail could theoretically convert one of their 2 operational R class to Standard Gauge, although that would be cost prohibitive. Steamrail incase you have forgotten is a not-for-profit run almost exclusively by volunteers. Volunteers who usually do have a full time job. The time it would take would be an unwanted distraction from a lot of the great work they are already doing, and it would also take either of R711 or R761 out of service on the BG, where they often work together, most notably on the very popular Snow Trains. The same Snow Trains which bring a lot of funds in for Steamrail which then allow them to be able to do a lot of the great work they do.

A better option would be something along the lines of somehow acquiring one of the stored A class diesels, preserving that and converting it to SG, and running that on tours. Then in the long term maybe when R700 is closer to completion that may be a candidate for being placed on the SG. But that is most definitly if anything, only a long term thought.

Again, Maybe, if Steamrail decided they had the funds, and the man-hours for all of that. it may be something that could possibly happen, but I definitly wouldn't be putting any undue pressure on Steamrail. Frankly, they are doing a fabulous job as it is, they don't need my silly ideas.
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
Latest I could find about R766 on the internet http://rusted2therails.blogspot.com.au/2014/11/r766-standard...
  NSWGR 3827 Deputy Commissioner

Location: South of the Border
Converting the Loco is the easy bit, then you need a train and facilities to maintain it and store it.
  Mufreight Train Controller

Location: North Ipswich
The R class and J class steamers were designed to be gauge convertible.  

Steamrail will have been through the accreditation of a 'new' (from an accreditation perspective) locomotive once with the A2 so doubtless they could do it with the R and J class if required. There will also hopefully already be an accredited standard gauge R class (766) by then which would help with the R class
Gauge conversion of an R class was not a simple as many seem to believe. There was a heap of design work necessary as 'designed to be gauge convertible' was something of an overstatement.

I have doubts that 766 will ever be accredited to do anything anywhere especially being located in NSW.
YM-Mundrabilla
R766 is inching closer to the point where getting accreditation is going to be the next hurdle all the naysayers will in time be proven wrong when we see it and 3801 on a double header.  That will be a tour trip worth waiting for.
  mikesyd Chief Commissioner

Location: Lurking
Converting the Loco is the easy bit, then you need a train and facilities to maintain it and store it.
NSWGR 3827
Definitely, one such facility being the ability to turn the Loco around at or close to the end of its journey (though not absolutely essential). Of interest, how many locations in Victoria outside of Melbourne are there where a SG locomotive (however its method of propulsion) could be turned?

Dimboola (I guess the TT there is operational);
Seymour;
Yarrawonga (It was converted to SG in 2009, whether it is actually useable, or has even been used, I don't know, nor do I know how long it is).

Then the others, which would be at the mercy of traffic:

North Geelong Grain Loop;
Birchip Grain Loop (following the SG conversion currently in progress);
New Triangle connection at Ararat (if it ends up as such)?

Was/is there a TT at Portland? Videos of the Double 38 Tour there in 2000 seem to show the Locos funnel first in both directions.
  LancedDendrite Chief Commissioner

Location: Gheringhap Loop Autonomous Zone
Is the Albury SG turntable functional?
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
Was/is there a TT at Portland? Videos of the Double 38 Tour there in 2000 seem to show the Locos funnel first in both directions.
mikesyd
The turntable at Portland North seemed to of been abolished during the late 60's after major alterations to the local railway landscape, steam traction had well and truly ended, diesel locomotives didn't really need turning.

The double 38's ran tender first to Portland, turned at Dimboola for their return to Melbourne.
  Graham4405 Minister for Railways

Location: Dalby Qld
Is the Albury SG turntable functional?
LancedDendrite
Didn't appear to be last I was there (June 2016). There are trees growing between the rails on the approaches!
  steamfreak Assistant Commissioner

Location: Wodonga, VIC
Is the Albury SG turntable functional?
Didn't appear to be last I was there (June 2016). There are trees growing between the rails on the approaches!
Graham4405
Yes, there is still a sizable tree growing there.  The turntable was last used to turn 3801 in June 2004, prior to its current role as a tree nursery...

Hopefully when the LVR Albury preservation centre becomes established, the turntable will once again be returned to service.
  Peter-Hem Locomotive Driver

Location: Tassie
Gauge conversion of an R class was not a simple as many seem to believe. There was a heap of design work necessary as 'designed to be gauge convertible' was something of an overstatement.

I have doubts that 766 will ever be accredited to do anything anywhere especially being located in NSW.
YM-Mundrabilla

In every book I've ever read about the R and J classes they always make special mention that the two locomotives were designed to be gauge convertible without mentioning how this was supposed to be done.

What is involved in gauge converting a locomotive?
Why are some locomotives gauge convertible and others aren't?
What other locomotive types could be converted?

Cheers Peter
  M636C Minister for Railways

Gauge conversion of an R class was not a simple as many seem to believe. There was a heap of design work necessary as 'designed to be gauge convertible' was something of an overstatement.

I have doubts that 766 will ever be accredited to do anything anywhere especially being located in NSW.

In every book I've ever read about the R and J classes they always make special mention that the two locomotives were designed to be gauge convertible without mentioning how this was supposed to be done.

What is involved in gauge converting a locomotive?
Why are some locomotives gauge convertible and others aren't?
What other locomotive types could be converted?

Cheers Peter
Peter-Hem
In the case of the R class, it really was easily convertible, as shown by R 766.

The R class was built with the bar frames spaced at a separation suitable for standard gauge. The cylinders were cast to be suitable for standard gauge, but were bolted together (and to the frame) with spacers so that they sat at broad gauge spacing. The axles were all of broad gauge length but the bearings on the axles sat at the standard gauge spacing dictated by the frame spacing.

So basically they just removed the spacers and moved the cylinders to SG spacing and after removing all the wheels, either shortened the existing axles or had new standard gauge axles made and reassembled the locomotive. In theory hangers for brake gear were provided for both gauges. The brake gear would require modification to get the same forces at the new gauge.

But basically, not too hard.

The post war J and N class were also designed for conversion, but these had plate frames which were spaced at the usual broad gauge spacing. In this case the actual cylinders were the same (or very similar to) normal broad gauge locomotives, but the spacers between the frames (often called "stretchers") had spacers each side to hold the frame plates at BG width. So unlike the R class, an N or J had to have the frame dismantled and re-assembled as part of the conversion. In the case of the J, the supports for the air reservoirs between the frames were not fitted with spacers and would have to be modified. After the frame had been re-assembled at SG spacing, the process of modifying the wheelsets would be the same as the R class.

The SAR had a different process with "dished" wheels. With the wheels turned with the "dished" side inward, the wheels were at BG spacing. With the dished side outward, the wheels were at SG spacing. A little thought will indicate that the tyres would have to be removed and replaced facing the opposite way for this to work.

This process was carried out on the SAR 740 class where the wheels were assembled flat side out, compared to the CR L class that had the dished side out, and the difference can be seen in photos of the locomotives. This meant that the cylinders were always at BG spacing, which meant that the L class couldn't run in NSW (who might otherwise have purchased them.)

Peter
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Was the detailed design of a standard gauge R class actually completed by the VR or did it stop at a more or less 'concept' stage?

What mods to the steampipes were needed and how were they done, please?

My understanding is that conversion of an R class to SG was not quite as simple as it theoretically might/should have been and that there was quite an amount of design work required before the conversion of 766 could occur.
  Graham4405 Minister for Railways

Location: Dalby Qld
For me the term "gauge convertible" implies that conversion to any gauge is possible, but in this case it would seem that only conversion to SG is likely to be feasible...

Hey, I'm a Queenslander... Wink
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
For me the term "gauge convertible" implies that conversion to any gauge is possible, but in this case it would seem that only conversion to SG is likely to be feasible...

Hey, I'm a Queenslander... Wink
Graham4405
Do they have some other gauge than BG and SG in Bananaland? Smile
  apw5910 Deputy Commissioner

Location: Location: Location.
Do they have some other gauge than BG and SG in Bananaland? Smile
YM-Mundrabilla
Uniform gauge?
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
R class and J class can be converted to Standard Gauge - they were designed as such. There is a good deal of work involved - shortening of axles, relocation of motion gear, steam pipes, brakes, lubricators and so on. Somewhere there are published lists of the entire scope of work, and when I get home and off this piece of Apple rubbish in my Sydney hotel, I will try to find them. No other Victorian steam locomotives are designed for conversion, and the first person to suggest that H220 should be converted to S.G.  will be taken out and summarily lynched.

P.S. At least one poster  above has published indisputable facts, and I observe that the Village Idiot has put "Disagree" on the post. Who is this drongo?
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
R class and J class can be converted to Standard Gauge - they were designed as such. There is a good deal of work involved - shortening of axles, relocation of motion gear, steam pipes, brakes, lubricators and so on. Somewhere there are published lists of the entire scope of work, and when I get home and off this piece of Apple rubbish in my Sydney hotel, I will try to find them. No other Victorian steam locomotives are designed for conversion, and the first person to suggest that H220 should be converted to S.G. will be taken out and summarily lynched. P.S. At least one poster above has published indisputable facts, and I observe that the Village Idiot has put "Disagree" on the post. Who is this drongo?
Valvegear
and the X class (in theory from what I've heard) and of course the N sg class!
  M636C Minister for Railways

R class and J class can be converted to Standard Gauge - they were designed as such. There is a good deal of work involved - shortening of axles, relocation of motion gear, steam pipes, brakes, lubricators and so on. Somewhere there are published lists of the entire scope of work, and when I get home and off this piece of Apple rubbish in my Sydney hotel, I will try to find them. No other Victorian steam locomotives are designed for conversion, and the first person to suggest that H220 should be converted to S.G.  will be taken out and summarily lynched.

P.S. At least one poster  above has published indisputable facts, and I observe that the Village Idiot has put "Disagree" on the post. Who is this drongo?
Valvegear
Try to avoid feeding the trolls.

I'm pretty sure that all the post WWII N class were convertible to standard gauge and would have used cylinders and stretchers interchangeable with the J class, at least back to the last coupled axle. I think TW has posted about these.

Peter

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