Canberra ARHS

 
  Duffy Chief Commissioner

Location: ACT
For information, assets that remain with the trust and weren't sold:
1210 (ACT Government Owned)
2413 (Junee)
3016 (Operational)
6029 (Requires repairs)
CPH 2 (Junee)
CPH 27 (Operational Railmotor)
CPH 37 (Operational Railmotor)
BJ 897 (1st Class Sitter, Ex AM Sleeper)
BVJ 1457 (1st Class Lounge, Ex AM Sleeper/ TCS Waitress Training Carriage)
HCX 632 (Operational Dogbox)
AL 1040 (Pullman Sleeper, Under Resto)
MCE 540 (Under Resto Sitter)
TAM 1888 (Display Sleeper)
NAM 2335 (Operational SA Sleeper)
LAN 2351 (VICTRACK Owned, Operational SA Sleeper)
TDS 2247 (Operational Sitting Car)
RMS 2360  (Operational SA Diner)
PHN 2380 (Operational Power Van)
PHA 2393 (Operational Power Van)
PHG 12720 (Operational Power Van)
HN, SCN, RFN (Operational Sitting cars and Bar Car)
FS 2021, 2082, 2140 (Operational Sitting Cars)
BVS (Danceopen plan Car)
DAM 2333 (VICTRACK)
LAN 2324 (Non-operational)

Hardly a fire-sale as put forward in the media given the most valuable and operational assets remain in the Trusts care.

Sponsored advertisement

  apw5910 Deputy Commissioner

Location: Location: Location.
Hardly a fire-sale as put forward in the media given the most valuable and operational assets remain in the Trusts care.
Duffy
Until the next sale and the one after that and so on until it is all sold, the Liquidator has paid himself and everyone else gets X cents in the dollar. And a generous philanthropic offer to cover the debt was ignored.
  Duffy Chief Commissioner

Location: ACT
If you say so.  Clearly you have the inside line to the liquidators intentions regardless of what they may have said publically or to those willing to work with him.

Perhaps your 'rage' would be better directed at those in charge of the joint when the poor decisions were made that led the ARHS to this point in the first place?
  NSW30T Station Master

Just a quick question while we are discussing the sale. I am not asking for owners names or anything but did 4468 get saved buy an individual the complete shell bogies and internal motors or did a scrap dealer buy it. One of my favourite locomotives thats all. Thank you
  Dave C Chief Train Controller

Location: Maitland
Looking as an outsider with no vested interest in ARHS or any other interested party.

There seams to be a good opportunity for Capital Holdings to work with the liquidators, ARHS and the ACT and NSW Governments etc. to use what appears to be a core collection to have a operating heritage railway and museum in the ACT.

This to be viable will need considerable effort by all parties and will need a very good business case and plan produced to ensure it is viable in both the short and long term. Learn from the past and put the right process in place to prevent it happening again.

Those who are owed money due to the past need to be repaid and if this is to be viable I would suggest in full.

This would be a Win Win for all.

Dave C

PS I know this is unlikely but could be possible.
  HardWorkingMan Chief Commissioner

Location: Echuca
The liquidator is there to look after the interests of the creditors (ie the people owed money) to ensure they get the maximum possible return.  These can be big businesses,  small tradespeople or even staff members who provided services for the organisation for which they expected to be paid so they can pay their staff or feed their families.  They didn't volunteer their time for nothing.

If people are not happy that assets got sold off then they should have either put their hands in their own pockets to purchase the items or got together with a group of like-minded people to do the same.  

I am disappointed that the Museum got caught up in this mess but to then blame the administrator brought in to untangle it isn't really fair.  Particularly when there was time for people to take positive actions themselves (eg arrange a group of friends, obtain loans etc) if they really wanted to have a say in what happened to the items in the collection.
  HardWorkingMan Chief Commissioner

Location: Echuca
The liquidator is there to look after the interests of the creditors (ie the people owed money) to ensure they get the maximum possible return.  These can be big businesses,  small tradespeople or even staff members who provided services for the organisation for which they expected to be paid so they can pay their staff or feed their families.  They didn't volunteer their time for nothing.

If people are not happy that assets got sold off then they should have either put their hands in their own pockets to purchase the items or got together with a group of like-minded people to do the same.  

I am disappointed that the Museum got caught up in this mess but to then blame the administrator brought in to untangle it isn't really fair.  Particularly when there was time for people to take positive actions themselves (eg arrange a group of friends, obtain loans etc) if they really wanted to have a say in what happened to the items in the collection.
  michaelgm Chief Commissioner

Had dealings with a liquiadour in about 2012. My partner was a creditor being an employee. It is a ruthless business. Paperwork provided was extensive and interesting. A junior clerk was charged at $150p/h head administrator was around $1200p/h This correspondence went on three years.
just a messy situation.
  SN7 Chief Commissioner

Has any of the sold stuff been moved to its new homes - taken away from the Canberra site ?
  apw5910 Deputy Commissioner
  nswtrains Chief Commissioner

https://the-riotact.com/heritage-trains-may-be-back-on-track-by-years-end/218987
apw5910
As someone who worked for the corporate regulator (ASIC and its predecessors) for a long time I am somewhat confused as to what is going on in Canberra. When a company is placed in liquidation the liquidator gathers in all the available assets of the company (if any) and then disposes of them to pay creditors whatever is available. Usually creditors only receive cents in the dollar if that and then the company is formally wound up and de-registered. In other words, the company ceases to exist.

I am not sure that the article in the newspaper claiming the museum will be up and running again is factual, however if it is, I then question whether liquidation was the correct process to deal with the museum's financial problems when so many assets appear to remain. It appears to me that the appointment of an administrator would have been the obvious choice as an administrator could have explored whether some arrangement could be made with the creditors to enable the museum to keep trading. It is far better to continue an income stream than cut it off.

I would imagine that 6029 would have been a substantial asset and to have that remaining after a so called liquidation seems very unusual to me. I would have liked to have seen any legal advice (if any) obtained by the directors prior to calling in the liquidators.

Whilst non-members have no standing to raise any concerns with ASIC, if I was a member I would definitely be writing to ASIC to make my concerns known.
  HardWorkingMan Chief Commissioner

Location: Echuca
I am wondering if the Canberra Museum was actually made up of more than one legal entity in the same way that Puffing Billy has the Emerald Tourist Railway Board and the Puffing Billy Preservation Society.  If this was the case then maybe some of the items weren't owned by the organisation that went bankrupt?
  nswtrains Chief Commissioner

I am wondering if the Canberra Museum was actually made up of more than one legal entity in the same way that Puffing Billy has the Emerald Tourist Railway Board and the Puffing Billy Preservation Society.  If this was the case then maybe some of the items weren't owned by the organisation that went bankrupt?
HardWorkingMan
Maybe the problems arose from the formation of the freight hauling arm, Southern Pacific. If that is the case then I am not sure why the museum was liquidated to sort the problems out (if any) with SP. When SP formed an arrangement to haul scrap metal, my first query was: where is all this scrap metal coming from around the ACT area? I think that proved to be the case because the business sure dried up quickly.
  LowndesJ515 #TeamRog

Location: Not in Victoria
I am wondering if the Canberra Museum was actually made up of more than one legal entity in the same way that Puffing Billy has the Emerald Tourist Railway Board and the Puffing Billy Preservation Society.  If this was the case then maybe some of the items weren't owned by the organisation that went bankrupt?
Maybe the problems arose from the formation of the freight hauling arm, Southern Pacific. If that is the case then I am not sure why the museum was liquidated to sort the problems out (if any) with SP. When SP formed an arrangement to haul scrap metal, my first query was: where is all this scrap metal coming from around the ACT area? I think that proved to be the case because the business sure dried up quickly.
nswtrains
ESPEE was only ever a trading name through the ARHS (ACT Div.). There were quite a few factors on why the scrap train stopped running, none of which had to do with scrap running out. You would be quite surprised at how much scrap is around the ACT.
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
You would be quite surprised at how much scrap is around the ACT.
"LowndesJ515"
Most of it is between the ears of certain people on Capital Hill.
  apw5910 Deputy Commissioner

Location: Location: Location.
You would be quite surprised at how much scrap is around the ACT.
Most of it is between the ears of certain people on Capital Hill.
Valvegear
No, that would actually make them useful.
  georges Train Controller

Maybe the problems arose from the formation of the freight hauling arm, Southern Pacific. If that is the case then I am not sure why the museum was liquidated to sort the problems out (if any) with SP. When SP formed an arrangement to haul scrap metal, my first query was: where is all this scrap metal coming from around the ACT area? I think that proved to be the case because the business sure dried up quickly.
nswtrains
The NSW government had sufficient faith in the viability of railing scrap, and other cargo, from Canberra to Sydney that it granted $1 million to Access Recyclers to repair a siding at Fyshwick in 2016 - http://www.canberratimes.com.au/act-news/1-million-nsw-grant-boosts-access-recycling-new-freight-depot-at-fyshwick-20160814-gqsgbz.html

The article mentions that the source of the metal was a range of country towns. Access operates the scrap facility at Barmedman.
  nswtrains Chief Commissioner

Maybe the problems arose from the formation of the freight hauling arm, Southern Pacific. If that is the case then I am not sure why the museum was liquidated to sort the problems out (if any) with SP. When SP formed an arrangement to haul scrap metal, my first query was: where is all this scrap metal coming from around the ACT area? I think that proved to be the case because the business sure dried up quickly.
The NSW government had sufficient faith in the viability of railing scrap, and other cargo, from Canberra to Sydney that it granted $1 million to Access Recyclers to repair a siding at Fyshwick in 2016 - http://www.canberratimes.com.au/act-news/1-million-nsw-grant-boosts-access-recycling-new-freight-depot-at-fyshwick-20160814-gqsgbz.html

The article mentions that the source of the metal was a range of country towns. Access operates the scrap facility at Barmedman.
georges
So what happened to the traffic and why don't the NSW Government ask for the contribution back if nothing happened? I read elsewhere that Access terminated the contract with Espee improperly according to the liquidator. This adds more intrigue to the whole debacle.
  georges Train Controller

............ I read elsewhere that Access terminated the contract with Espee improperly according to the liquidator. This adds more intrigue to the whole debacle.
nswtrains
Lots of reading here:

https://arhsliquidation.wordpress.com/author/crmvolunteer/
  ivahri Train Controller

The key bit...

"The formation of the ESPEE commercial operation was intended to provide the Society with a secured line of funding for capital projects. In theory, it was a sound decision as it made full use of the Society’s hard won accreditation, provided training opportunities for its volunteer and professional train crew and opened doors on the leasing of locomotives and rollingstock for Society operations.  In practise, it virtually condemned the Society to insolvency and placed the assets held in the Canberra Railway Museum trust at risk. This was primarily due to the lack of appropriate safeguards being applied in the setting up of ESPEE as there was no attempt by the ARHS Council or the management to keep ESPEE legally at arms length from the ARHS Heritage Operation and Canberra Railway Museum Trust and there was extensive cross pollination of staff, equipment and procedures as a result."
  steamfreak Assistant Commissioner

Location: Wodonga, VIC
I noted the following link, posted by the owner of the Facebook Group "Surviving Garratt Locomotives".  It is a long PDF with all the gory details of the liquidation.

https://lookaside.fbsbx.com/file/Bundle+-+low+res1.pdf?token=AWxJeEgNDczCShfns1Rr190pHi5s7DXoS8xK-kvaOCMUDFxYoLoMjH0QSSMNSO5QEFqVJnlKraIlCEl0nW43kexH_Vi_zqUuq5hEeHU-rW3g1OkblbcpAcpsQMVf7h6vk3kDIcMWiO2VxZsnFXo69JPAP7yzRkRMwZs3iAbvRQAQWc0L4rjBcWT8qZcuGmEnZEWGG4e2znnfy6t0Lou4L6Xe
  james.au Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
I noted the following link, posted by the owner of the Facebook Group "Surviving Garratt Locomotives".  It is a long PDF with all the gory details of the liquidation.

[url=https://lookaside.fbsbx.com/file/Bundle - low res[1].pdf?token=AWxJeEgNDczCShfns1Rr190pHi5s7DXoS8xK-kvaOCMUDFxYoLoMjH0QSSMNSO5QEFqVJnlKraIlCEl0nW43kexH_Vi_zqUuq5hEeHU-rW3g1OkblbcpAcpsQMVf7h6vk3kDIcMWiO2VxZsnFXo69JPAP7yzRkRMwZs3iAbvRQAQWc0L4rjBcWT8qZcuGmEnZEWGG4e2znnfy6t0Lou4L6Xe]ARHS ACT Liquidation Report[/url]
steamfreak

That link doesnt work I'm afraid!
  steamfreak Assistant Commissioner

Location: Wodonga, VIC
Yes, it was a messy url.  Try my original post again or:
https://tinyurl.com/y8fggrvu
  ssaunders Train Controller

Now seeking funds from the ex members to re start under the directorship of Glen Bridgart, John Cheeseman David Sommerville and Richard Robinson.
  apw5910 Deputy Commissioner

Location: Location: Location.
Now seeking funds from the ex members to re start under the directorship of Glen Bridgart, John Cheeseman David Sommerville and Richard Robinson.
ssaunders
Six months later...

Just received a prospectus and membership form by email. The wheels grind slowly...

Sponsored advertisement

Display from:   

Quick Reply

We've disabled Quick Reply for this thread as it was last updated more than six months ago.