Re Opening & Upgrading Maryborough - Avoca - Ararat

 
  Carnot Chief Commissioner

I've wondered what it would be like to hit that splitter on SG. It would obviously have to be at very low speed...

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  Carnot Chief Commissioner

I've wondered what it would be like to hit that splitter on SG. It would obviously have to be at very low speed...
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
I've wondered what it would be like to hit that splitter on SG. It would obviously have to be at very low speed...
Carnot
15 km/h !

The Government talks up how well this upgrade will speed up trains, when the truth Is a bit different !
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
To me the centreline of the track is halfway between the two outer rails but I disagree that if the SG ('third') rail is on the platform side of a BG/SG dual gauge track then the SG rolling stock would be only 3 1/2"  (82.5 mm) further from the platform. My belief is that the vehicle would be the full gauge variation from the platform.

I look at it this way when the third rail is on the platform side:

  • A BG vehicle on the outside rail is 6 inches clear of the platform
  • We put the same vehicle on SG bogies
  • We take away the outside (BG) rail
  • The vehicle arrives on the remaining SG rail
  • The vehicle is 6 1/2 inches further from the platform


This perhaps seems to be (somewhat) confirmed by your earlier post which read inter alia:

'Southern Cross (Melbourne) at Platform 2 the common rail swaps regularly changes sides to avoid complicated turnouts, as a result the platform gap Is all over the place for both BG & SG rolling stock.'

Regards

YM
It should be a further 3 1/4 inches away from the platform. The photo below is of a VLO at Maryborough a few months ago - on BG of course. Now, imagine it being lifted up, bogies swapped to SG and the set down again. Because the outer (the common rail in this case) rail does not change, the vehicle centreline moves out by 3 1/4 inches - so the gap increases by that amount.

If on the other hand, if that splitter in the foreground was not there, then the change would see the gap decrease by 3 1/4 inches - perhaps enough to swipe the platform (I did not look to see just how much gap was there at present).

https://flic.kr/p/YRLzRj
mikesyd
Looks like we are going to have to agree to disagree. Smile
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

Progress Report as at Sunday  10/12/17  :

From Maryborough via Avoca to Ararat direction .










Basically the railway is being upgraded over two sections at the same time .   1.  Ararat towards  Avoca  &  2.  Avoca towards  Maryborough .



Maryborough to  Avoca :



All old sleepers removed and base graded, concrete sleepers throughout using former 80lb rail then welded to CWR with pandrol clips .

Gauge splitter has been put in the dual gauge platform track at Up end of Maryborough with bg straight towards Ballarat and sg diverge towards Avoca .  From this point to approximately Moores Flat the  track base is prepared and graded and concrete sleepers stacked still to be placed and rail secured .  From Moores Flat into Avoca track secured on concrete sleepers and CWR in progress, with approx half the distance from Avoca towards Moores Flat first drop of ballast by push/pull  ballast train based at Avoca with a 48 class loco on each end .



Through Avoca proper track laid and welded and first drop of ballast, track moved out slightly greater distance from platform face to avoid any clearance issues .



Ararat:  Earthworks started from Grano Street lx behind the formed loco depot for the new direct link to the ARTC mainline towards Maroona .



Ararat to Avoca  :  



The first section from Grano Street out for about 2kms has had nothing done yet albeit ballast trains are running over that section . (Presumably this section will be upgraded in parallel with the new link to the Maroona line.)  The current upgrade / relay starts at a lx behind a caravan park on the outskirts of Ararat .  From this point the track is laid and CWR in progress as far as the Ararat end of Ampitheatre . This new track has first ballast drop  and tamping from Caravan Park to around Eversley.  Through Ampitheatre both ends track still to be laid and secured .  From Ampitheatre then towards Avoca track is either laid and awaiting ballast, or sleepers placed awaiting rail attachment .  Approaching Avoca graded and waiting sleepers and rail attachment over Avoca River into Avoca .



At several locations bases and trunking is placed for lx protection, but many of these are very remote locations with no mains power within sight , so may be a delay .  Over whole line looks like 10 – 12 lx are getting booms  being  main roads, and some side roads with poor visibility of approaching trains .



The section that is ballasted and first tamped near Ararat  indicates that this will be a high quality stable freight line of 21 t axle load and a likely line speed of 80 kmh .  On this section apart from the absence of an intermediate  crossing loop the job appears to be executed to a very high standard with full attention to the track base, stability and track drainage .It should admirably serve the grain, mineral sands and container traffic it has been designed to carry from 2018 .

Completion date, by what is still to be done looks like january will be un achievable .
  Lockspike Deputy Commissioner

The first time I saw a 'change of common rail' was in Gladstone's (SA) triple gauge yard. Other than the need to go around platforms (not a problem at Gladstone - ground level platform) they are used to simplify dual (multi!) gauge turnout design.
I am glad you mentioned it Lockspike, I was looking at Change of Common Rail devices earlier, they do my head in almost as much as the SG conversion calculations above!

The one i found a picture of had no moving parts, I presume it is used for low speed movements, what are the ones used in modern railways like, do they have 2 moving "points", they are interlocked so i presume they are complex pieces of equipment.

BG
BrentonGolding
Hi BG,
Until I saw the change of common rail (COCR) at Maryborough I had only seen them with switch(s). As for "modern" railways, I guess the dual gauge RFR work up over the Nth Melb. flyover, etc., (where the XPT came a gutser) is the newest dual gauge track in the country, but I don't know if COCR are employed there; as far as I'm aware it's an area not easily observed by non rail workers.
I like the no moving parts COCR as at Maryborough for its simplicity, though the speed limit is very restrictive. I guess it's horses for course what type of COCR is used: need for a bit more speed v simplicity.
  duttonbay Minister for Railways

On the basis that a picture is worth a thousand words, here's a rough sketch showing a 9' wide vehicle on both 4' and 5' gauges (for simplicty).  The 4' gauge is in red, and lowered a bit for visibility.  It hits a platform 3' away from the BG vehicle.

https://flic.kr/p/HrCKgD
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Thanks all.
I started out by asking 'where have I gone wrong'?
I now see the error of my ways (I think) but thanks to all who took the time to point out where I had gone wrong. Smile
I will shut up now ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
  Lockspike Deputy Commissioner

Thanks all.
I started out by asking 'where have I gone wrong'?
I now see the error of my ways (I think) but thanks to all who took the time to point out where I had gone wrong. Smile
I will shut up now ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
YM-Mundrabilla
All cool YM; on the face of it, it does seem counter intuitive.
  james.au Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
Thanks all.
I started out by asking 'where have I gone wrong'?
I now see the error of my ways (I think) but thanks to all who took the time to point out where I had gone wrong. Smile
I will shut up now ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
All cool YM; on the face of it, it does seem counter intuitive.
Lockspike
Totally agree - it took a drawing very similar on my coffee table for me to get it!

And, keep asking the question till you understand the answer amigo!
  mikesyd Chief Commissioner

Location: Lurking
And if that third rail and its moving from one side to another confuses some of us, imagine what the boffins in the fancy offices of V/Line think its for. The ones from the UK probably think its the power supply.

Anyway, is the January completion date supposed to be 1 or 31? Whatever it was, I bet its 31 now.

I do wonder what the interim version of Maryborough will be - BG just through the platform (plus the Stabling siding of course) road like SG has been to now, or maybe keep one BG loop until Stage 3 starts. I wonder whether the Loco sidings will live on as SG.
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
And if that third rail and its moving from one side to another confuses some of us, imagine what the boffins in the fancy offices of V/Line think its for. The ones from the UK probably think its the power supply.

Anyway, is the January completion date supposed to be 1 or 31? Whatever it was, I bet its 31 now.

I do wonder what the interim version of Maryborough will be - BG just through the platform (plus the Stabling siding of course) road like SG has been to now, or maybe keep one BG loop until Stage 3 starts. I wonder whether the Loco sidings will live on as SG.
mikesyd
I have to admit that I was shocked to see your photo the other day of what is left of Maryborough Yard. Reminded me a bit of Bright Yard years ago.



Call me a pessimist or whatever, but why is it that I can only see a huge white animal with a long trunk at the end of this project? We seem to be rebuilding yesterday (only partially) in a better gauge rather than building tomorrow.



I hope that I am wrong but we seem able to “spoil the ship for a ha’porth of tar” in everything that we do in rail in Victoria
  hbedriver Chief Train Controller

My understanding is that the entire project is pretty much guaranteed to be delivered on time (January). The expected date is the 412th January. The date is only to be expected, really.
  Carnot Chief Commissioner

Interesting to note that Ararat services won't be running on Dec27-29. Perhaps this is when they hope to install the diamond crossing across the BG track at Ararat?
https://www.vline.com.au/Service-Changes/Planned-Disruptions/Coaches-replace-trains-on-the-Ararat-line-(1)
  Lockspike Deputy Commissioner

Interesting to note that Ararat services won't be running on Dec27-29. Perhaps this is when they hope to install the diamond crossing across the BG track at Ararat?
https://www.vline.com.au/Service-Changes/Planned-Disruptions/Coaches-replace-trains-on-the-Ararat-line-(1)
Carnot
If so, site preparations will quickly become obvious.
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

Interesting to note that Ararat services won't be running on Dec27-29. Perhaps this is when they hope to install the diamond crossing across the BG track at Ararat?
https://www.vline.com.au/Service-Changes/Planned-Disruptions/Coaches-replace-trains-on-the-Ararat-line-(1)
If so, site preparations will quickly become obvious.
Lockspike
Based on where the earthworks indicate the new direct link from Avoca will join the standard gauge mainline one would summize that the mixed gauge diamond will need to move closer up to Albert Street . This would potentially involve re-locating the existing or a new mixed gauge diamond further in an Up direction and re adjusting the bg track panels either side of any re-located mixed gauge diamond.  

Two days would seem about right as would appear largely track as Stage 1 with existing bg signals and interlocking largely as is ..
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
Interesting to note that Ararat services won't be running on Dec27-29. Perhaps this is when they hope to install the diamond crossing across the BG track at Ararat?
https://www.vline.com.au/Service-Changes/Planned-Disruptions/Coaches-replace-trains-on-the-Ararat-line-(1)
If so, site preparations will quickly become obvious.
Based on where the earthworks indicate the new direct link from Avoca will join the standard gauge mainline one would summize that the mixed gauge diamond will need to move closer up to Albert Street . This would potentially involve re-locating the existing or a new mixed gauge diamond further in an Up direction and re adjusting the bg track panels either side of any re-located mixed gauge diamond.  

Two days would seem about right as would appear largely track as Stage 1 with existing bg signals and interlocking largely as is ..
kuldalai
It would be silly from a maintenance prospective to have 2 mixed gauge diamonds In the same area, when you could get away with one by rearranging the broad gauge.
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

Interesting to note that Ararat services won't be running on Dec27-29. Perhaps this is when they hope to install the diamond crossing across the BG track at Ararat?
https://www.vline.com.au/Service-Changes/Planned-Disruptions/Coaches-replace-trains-on-the-Ararat-line-(1)
If so, site preparations will quickly become obvious.
Based on where the earthworks indicate the new direct link from Avoca will join the standard gauge mainline one would summize that the mixed gauge diamond will need to move closer up to Albert Street . This would potentially involve re-locating the existing or a new mixed gauge diamond further in an Up direction and re adjusting the bg track panels either side of any re-located mixed gauge diamond.  

Two days would seem about right as would appear largely track as Stage 1 with existing bg signals and interlocking largely as is ..
It would be silly from a maintenance prospective to have 2 mixed gauge diamonds In the same area, when you could get away with one by rearranging the broad gauge.
Nightfire
Sorry for the confusion . Bit hard to explain . With the  location of the nw sg turnout towards Avoca in the sg mainline then the bg diamond has to move further in an Up direction to get the bg track over to the South side before the new sg turnout .
Whether the existing mixed gauge diamond can be re-located, or a new one may have to be installed because of the alignment of the sg mainline and the angle at which the bg will now cross it . If a new one is on site then that answers that. Otherwise suggest existing one will just be relocated in an Up direction . Then one will have too much bg track on the North side and not enough on the South, so a bit of cut and paste and weld of bg track would take place from the North to the South side . Overall the bg track distance should be much the sameoverall  it is just that it will crossover from the North to the South side of the sg line nearer to Alfred St lx to avoid conflict with the new turnout in the sg mainline towards Avoca .
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
Sorry for the confusion . Bit hard to explain . With the  location of the nw sg turnout towards Avoca in the sg mainline then the bg diamond has to move further in an Up direction to get the bg track over to the South side before the new sg turnout .
Whether the existing mixed gauge diamond can be re-located, or a new one may have to be installed because of the alignment of the sg mainline and the angle at which the bg will now cross it . If a new one is on site then that answers that. Otherwise suggest existing one will just be relocated in an Up direction . Then one will have too much bg track on the North side and not enough on the South, so a bit of cut and paste and weld of bg track would take place from the North to the South side . Overall the bg track distance should be much the sameoverall  it is just that it will crossover from the North to the South side of the sg line nearer to Albert St lx to avoid conflict with the new turnout in the sg mainline towards Avoca .
kuldalai
It's possible that the existing broad gauge track from the location existing mixed gauge diamond to about Ararat Mitsubishi (car sales yard) could be relaid as the standard gauge mainline (with the new Maryborough line turnout) the old standard gauge mainline would be relaid to broad gauge.

The new location for mixed gauge diamond would be just West of the Alfred Street level crossing.


Getting rid of broad gauge from Ararat (gauge converting Ballarat - Ararat) would sure simplify things, just a simple turnout junction next to Alfred Street would be all that would be needed.
  james.au Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
Refer to this diagram for the layout as per the tender docs.  I cant say if it has or hasnt changed since then but it shows what was planned.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B0jSh-pl54qAdmhPZ09aOUVXTWc
  mikesyd Chief Commissioner

Location: Lurking
If they follow that completely it will be a good result.
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

Refer to this diagram for the layout as per the tender docs.  I cant say if it has or hasnt changed since then but it shows what was planned.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B0jSh-pl54qAdmhPZ09aOUVXTWc
james.au
That potential layout answers a number of questions , and looks like what will be built except that most sources claim that there will be no link Westward to the ARTC mainline either as shown, or via the existing Ararat Yard link at this time; as everyone wants it, but no one wants to pay for it  !!!  

If the layout is built as per the document shown,(viz: future proofed)  then it would be fairly easy to put in the Adelaide leg at a future time .

Interestingly this diagram shows an existing sg line towards Avoca from Grano St, and an apparently older alignment to be upgraded to 21 t axle load . That would explain why the existing sg line between Grano Street and the Caravan Park on the Avoca side of Ararat has not been upgraded yet .

This diagram also reveals that the existing mixed gauge diamond is removed and salvaged, and a new mixed gauge diamond is installed much nearer up to the Albert St level crossing . That will be because the angle at which the broad gauge crosses the standard will be far more oblique .
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
Refer to this diagram for the layout as per the tender docs.  I cant say if it has or hasnt changed since then but it shows what was planned.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B0jSh-pl54qAdmhPZ09aOUVXTWc
That potential layout answers a number of questions , and looks like what will be built except that most sources claim that there will be no link Westward to the ARTC mainline either as shown, or via the existing Ararat Yard link at this time; as everyone wants it, but no one wants to pay for it  !!!  

If the layout is built as per the document shown,(viz: future proofed)  then it would be fairly easy to put in the Adelaide leg at a future time .

Interestingly this diagram shows an existing sg line towards Avoca from Grano St, and an apparently older alignment to be upgraded to 21 t axle load . That would explain why the existing sg line between Grano Street and the Caravan Park on the Avoca side of Ararat has not been upgraded yet .

This diagram also reveals that the existing mixed gauge diamond is removed and salvaged, and a new mixed gauge diamond is installed much nearer up to the Albert St level crossing . That will be because the angle at which the broad gauge crosses the standard will be far more oblique .
kuldalai
Just one correction the level crossing Is on Alfred Street (that goes past the old loco depot)

Albert Street was once a level crossing, but has been lowered under the railway tracks using a low clearance trench.
  BigShunter Chief Commissioner

Location: St Clair. S.A.
The section that is ballasted and first tamped near Ararat  indicates that this will be a high quality stable freight line of 21 t axle load and a likely line speed of 80 kmh .  On this section apart from the absence of an intermediate  crossing loop the job appears to be executed to a very high standard with full attention to the track base, stability and track drainage .It should admirably serve the grain, mineral sands and container traffic it has been designed to carry from 2018 .

Completion date, by what is still to be done looks like january will be un achievable .
kuldalai

Well it's certainly not 100 in the water bag, here as predicted, reasonably pleasant.

That's the weather report over and another excellent description of whats happening, kuldalai, thank you.     ( even if it is a week late )

It certainly seems like there will be two distinctive lines to Mildura, this section sounds top notch and some of the pictures from around Donald and St Arnaud, look a bit how ya going and not far off goat track class, that's for shore.

And as has been mentioned ( heaps ) the lack of a crossing loop( s ) would be the biggest cock up.
Would have thought a loop road at Avoca would be the obvious as there was a second road there anyway.

Stage 2B – Maryborough to Ararat, Secondary Track (Sidings etc.) Conversion 3.0 km

So the above must have been shelved at some stage, bit of a shame.

BigShunter.
  mikesyd Chief Commissioner

Location: Lurking
The section that is ballasted and first tamped near Ararat  indicates that this will be a high quality stable freight line of 21 t axle load and a likely line speed of 80 kmh .  On this section apart from the absence of an intermediate  crossing loop the job appears to be executed to a very high standard with full attention to the track base, stability and track drainage .It should admirably serve the grain, mineral sands and container traffic it has been designed to carry from 2018 .

Completion date, by what is still to be done looks like january will be un achievable .

Well it's certainly not 100 in the water bag, here as predicted, reasonably pleasant.

That's the weather report over and another excellent description of whats happening, kuldalai, thank you.     ( even if it is a week late )

It certainly seems like there will be two distinctive lines to Mildura, this section sounds top notch and some of the pictures from around Donald and St Arnaud, look a bit how ya going and not far off goat track class, that's for shore.

And as has been mentioned ( heaps ) the lack of a crossing loop( s ) would be the biggest cock up.
Would have thought a loop road at Avoca would be the obvious as there was a second road there anyway.

Stage 2B – Maryborough to Ararat, Secondary Track (Sidings etc.) Conversion 3.0 km

So the above must have been shelved at some stage, bit of a shame.

BigShunter.
BigShunter
Those 3.0km could be in Maryborough Yard. There is nothing west of Maryborough to 'convert' in any case.

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