DERMs hauling goods wagons on Balranald line

 
  Maccification Beginner

I'm planning a layout set "somewhere in northern Victoria" and based loosely on Echuca although nowhere near as grand. DERMs from the southern "not Bendigo" and the south eastern "not Toolamba" will occasionally haul a C van, MT or BCPL.

A footnote in the November 1969 WTT says "Permission is granted for a maximum of three goods vehicles to be trailed behind the Diesel Electric Rail Motor between Moulamein and Balranald subject to the aggregate tonnage of the vehicles not exceeding 60 tons."

I'm thinking it would be fun to run this sort of train. Apart from this 60 ton maximum, were there any restrictions on what could and couldn't be attached? I'm guessing no petrol or explosives but what about livestock? Did anything else have to be done to the trailing goods vehicles apart from attaching a tail disc?

TIA

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  Valvegear The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Norda Fittazroy
I imagine that TIA means Talking In Arabic.
  lkernan Assistant Commissioner

Location: Melbourne
I imagine that TIA means Talking In Arabic.
Valvegear

Or Thanks In Advance.
  Valvegear The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Norda Fittazroy
Or Thanks In Advance.
"lkernan"
Really? Who'd of thought it? (Irony is wasted on some people).
I suppose when someone hands you a cold beer, you say "TY", or you order "SB" when you eat out.
Why the fetish for abbreviations instead of a good mannered sentence or phrase?
  mikesyd Chief Commissioner

Location: no longer in Sydney
Valvegear, there were a couple more you missed :

BCPL = I recall Bouncing Car Passenger Lounge being used sometimes (and having been in a few at speed, I agree)

MT = Empty


And when some people hand me a cold beer, after some prompting that its their turn, the response can be ABT - About Bloody Time.

Next time that I visit my sister in Norda Fitzroy, I will make an appointment and come and shout you a cold one.



Laughing

Seriously, seeing a freight wagon or three behind a DERM would be quite a sight, having seen only a BCPL in tow.
  LancedDendrite Chief Commissioner

Location: Trapped in a meeting with Rhonda and Karsten
BCPL = I recall Bouncing Car Passenger Lounge being used sometimes (and having been in a few at speed, I agree
mikesyd
I'm under advisement that the 'C' in BCPL usually stands for a C-word much harsher than 'Car' Laughing

Seriously, seeing a freight wagon or three behind a DERM would be quite a sight, having seen only a BCPL in tow.
mikesyd
Mark Bau has a scanned picture on his website of a Moulamein to Balranald "Mixed" that has a DERM hauling a GY and a pair of louvre vans:
http://victorianrailways.net/motive%20power/derm/derm.html
  Valvegear The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Norda Fittazroy
And when some people hand me a cold beer, after some prompting that its their turn, the response can be ABT - About Bloody Time.

Next time that I visit my sister in Norda Fitzroy, I will make an appointment and come and shout you a cold one.
"mikesyd"
Sounds like a plan to me. I'll try to avoid ABT!
  mikesyd Chief Commissioner

Location: no longer in Sydney
I'm planning a layout set "somewhere in northern Victoria" and based loosely on Echuca although nowhere near as grand. DERMs from the southern "not Bendigo" and the south eastern "not Toolamba" will occasionally haul a C van, MT or BCPL.

A footnote in the November 1969 WTT says "Permission is granted for a maximum of three goods vehicles to be trailed behind the Diesel Electric Rail Motor between Moulamein and Balranald subject to the aggregate tonnage of the vehicles not exceeding 60 tons."

I'm thinking it would be fun to run this sort of train. Apart from this 60 ton maximum, were there any restrictions on what could and couldn't be attached? I'm guessing no petrol or explosives but what about livestock? Did anything else have to be done to the trailing goods vehicles apart from attaching a tail disc?

TIA
Maccification
Here you go, scroll down to near the bottom of the attached for a photo of the Moulamein to Balranald mixed.

http://www.victorianrailways.net/motive%20power/derm/derm.html

EDIT - Beaten to it by LancedDendrite
  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney
It probably helps if the gradients on the Balranald line are pretty flat.
  darcycammo Chief Train Controller

Location: cockatoo vic
DSCR used DeRm 63RM and a GY plus a ZL van to bullarto and back for a members train ????
  hbedriver Train Controller

During one of our chats, he remarked on the Balranald train. The DERM would run to Moulamein on the Tuesday (I think), return to Echuca Wednesday. He identified a business opportunity to attach perishable goods in vans, which arrived into Moulamein earlier that day, to the DERM and extend it to Balranald. The train was not publicly advertised, as it was technically a goods working, although I guess the locals soon enough worked it out. That arrangement continued until the DERM was withdrawn about the late 1970's.

Passenger trains ran (ISTR) to Moulamein on Tuesday, from Balranald to Echuca on Wednesday, then Thursday to Balranald, returning Friday. Change at Echuca for Bendigo, thence per the mid-day up to Melbourne; dunno if there was a connection to/from the Toolamba motor as well available. i think the Toolamba arrived into Echuca before the morning from Bendigo, so maybe passengers from Seymour could enjoy the tour.
hbedriver

Filling in a couple of details.

The working started sometime between Nov 68 and Nov 69. In 1968 the Balranald service was a 153hp Walker which did two return trips per week Down Mon/Up Tues, Down Thurs/Up Fri. The goods service ran Down on Tues, but only to Moulamein, returning Wednesday, and Down all the way to Balranald on Friday, returning on Sunday.

By Nov 69 it had been replaced by a DERM. On Monday it ran to Moulamein and stabled. On Tuesday it ran as 'Diesel Electric Rail Motor (Empty) hauling Goods Vehicles' from Moulamein to Balranald. A footnote stated that it could haul up to three vehicles, with a total weight not exceeding 60 tons. The goods vehicles came Down to Moulamein on the Tuesday goods, which arrived at 3 pm, and the DERM departed at 3.40 pm. Hauling the goods vehicles, the DERM took 2 hours and 5 minutes to get to Balranald. The Goods vehicles stayed at Balranald until the 6 pm Sunday Goods left - which must have done wonders for the utilisation. In theory, they could have been attached to the Up Wednesday DERM which was scheduled to leave Moulamein after the DERM, but the running time was too short to haul any vehicles.

The timetable remained unaltered until the passenger service was withdrawn on 10 November 1975, with the last Up being on the 6 November.

DERMs hauled freight vehicles elsewhere and at other times as well.

In 1931 permission was granted to haul up to two louvre trucks and a Z van behind the PERM (or Brill) between Warrenheip and Geelong (if a trailer was hauled, only two louvre trucks, or one louvre and a Z van could be hauled). This, of course, was pretty much all down hill. But getting to Warrenheip involved getting up the Warrenheip bank. Permission was granted to haul one less vehicle up the bank. I'd have liked to see a DERM hauling a louvre and a Z van up the bank. Slow and noisy would spring to mind. The other vehicle appears to have been taken out by the Ballarat pilot and picked up at Warrenheip. In Jan 1932 someone saw the light and permission was granted for the pilot to haul the DERM and the trailing load up the bank to Warrenheip where it was let go to manage the rest on its own.

The 1936 GA had a page and a half of sections where a PERM or a Brill could haul vehicles. The vehicles ranged from passenger cars (BC, ABC), to vans (Z, CE), and freight stock (horse boxes, UB, I, livestock). Typically two vehicles could be attached. Around Echuca, for example, permission was granted to haul either 1) two Z vans or UB truck, 2) horse box and Z van, 3) loaded I truck and Z van, or 4) any fixed wheeled stock truck and Z van. These could be hauled to/from Bendigo, Deni, or Toolamba. The best permission was No 20 Up Sunday Whittlesea which could haul two standard trailers AND an ABC type car.

These permissions were all still pretty much in the 1953 GA.
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Thanks Hbedriver.
An interesting and comprehensive post.
Thanks specially for the explanation of the acronyms. There are definitely FTM TLAs around on RP.  
Pity that there are not more MWBRs (Mike Ronalds) around these days amongst those that cannot even begin to spell such words as
R A I L W A Y and S E R V I C E.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
Thanks Hbedriver.
An interesting and comprehensive post.
Thanks specially for the explanation of the acronyms. There are definitely FTM TLAs around on RP.  
Pity that there are not more MWBRs (Mike Ronalds) around these days amongst those that cannot even begin to spell such words as
R A I L W A Y and S E R V I C E.
YM-Mundrabilla

VR weren't always about 'Service'.

When the Walker railcar used to arrive at Castlemaine around 7:25 to connect with the first UP at 7:35, the motor waited in Platform 3 for the arrival of the down 10:35 arrival 'Great Northern Ltd'.

It was suggested over the years that the Walker could operate a workers train to Bendigo which would give the train over 2 hours to operate a service which would no doubt have been popular with workers and shoppers alike.

VR never agreed to the service and it wasn't until the reopening of the Bendigo line after the RFR works that counter traffic commenced and now hundreds of pax travel to Bendigo from Castlemaine, as well as Kyneton.

We may like to look at the VR days through rose coloured glasses...but not everything was wonderful under the old VR.

I won't go on about no air-con cars and the totally inadequate 2 UP's and 2 DOWN Bendigo's on Sundays.

Mike.
  BigShunter Deputy Commissioner

Location: St Clair. S.A.
Very interesting article, LancedDendrite and mikesyd, thanks for posting it.

BigShunter.
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Thanks Hbedriver.
An interesting and comprehensive post.
Thanks specially for the explanation of the acronyms. There are definitely FTM TLAs around on RP.  
Pity that there are not more MWBRs (Mike Ronalds) around these days amongst those that cannot even begin to spell such words as
R A I L W A Y and S E R V I C E.

VR weren't always about 'Service'.

When the Walker railcar used to arrive at Castlemaine around 7:25 to connect with the first UP at 7:35, the motor waited in Platform 3 for the arrival of the down 10:35 arrival 'Great Northern Ltd'.

It was suggested over the years that the Walker could operate a workers train to Bendigo which would give the train over 2 hours to operate a service which would no doubt have been popular with workers and shoppers alike.

VR never agreed to the service and it wasn't until the reopening of the Bendigo line after the RFR works that counter traffic commenced and now hundreds of pax travel to Bendigo from Castlemaine, as well as Kyneton.

We may like to look at the VR days through rose coloured glasses...but not everything was wonderful under the old VR.

I won't go on about no air-con cars and the totally inadequate 2 UP's and 2 DOWN Bendigo's on Sundays.

Mike.
The Vinelander
Of course the VR wasn't perfect, but just for comparison compare the reliability of services Melbourne to Albury then and now.
It was different culture then focused on the railway rather than the MBAs, bean counters and the minister. Decisions were made and acted upon on the spot.
Imagine catching the 1615 Albury express (I know there is no equivalent these days) from Newmarket to Strathmore during a time of spark disruption as I have done. It would take six months and there would be WW3 between the umpteen players to organise such a thing these days.
  historian Assistant Commissioner

During one of our chats, he remarked on the Balranald train. The DERM would run to Moulamein on the Tuesday (I think), return to Echuca Wednesday. He identified a business opportunity to attach perishable goods in vans, which arrived into Moulamein earlier that day, to the DERM and extend it to Balranald. The train was not publicly advertised, as it was technically a goods working, although I guess the locals soon enough worked it out. That arrangement continued until the DERM was withdrawn about the late 1970's.

Passenger trains ran (ISTR) to Moulamein on Tuesday, from Balranald to Echuca on Wednesday, then Thursday to Balranald, returning Friday. Change at Echuca for Bendigo, thence per the mid-day up to Melbourne; dunno if there was a connection to/from the Toolamba motor as well available. i think the Toolamba arrived into Echuca before the morning from Bendigo, so maybe passengers from Seymour could enjoy the tour.
hbedriver

Filling in a couple of details.

The working started sometime between Nov 68 and Nov 69. In 1968 the Balranald service was a 153hp Walker which did two return trips per week Down Mon/Up Tues, Down Thurs/Up Fri. The goods service ran Down on Tues, but only to Moulamein, returning Wednesday, and Down all the way to Balranald on Friday, returning on Sunday.

By Nov 69 it had been replaced by a DERM. On Monday it ran to Moulamein and stabled. On Tuesday it ran as 'Diesel Electric Rail Motor (Empty) hauling Goods Vehicles' from Moulamein to Balranald. A footnote stated that it could haul up to three vehicles, with a total weight not exceeding 60 tons. The goods vehicles came Down to Moulamein on the Tuesday goods, which arrived at 3 pm, and the DERM departed at 3.40 pm. Hauling the goods vehicles, the DERM took 2 hours and 5 minutes to get to Balranald. The Goods vehicles stayed at Balranald until the 6 pm Sunday Goods left - which must have done wonders for the utilisation. In theory, they could have been attached to the Up Wednesday DERM which was scheduled to leave Moulamein after the DERM, but the running time was too short to haul any vehicles.

The timetable remained unaltered until the passenger service was withdrawn on 10 November 1975, with the last Up being on the 6 November.

DERMs hauled freight vehicles elsewhere and at other times as well.

In 1931 permission was granted to haul up to two louvre trucks and a Z van behind the PERM (or Brill) between Warrenheip and Geelong (if a trailer was hauled, only two louvre trucks, or one louvre and a Z van could be hauled). This, of course, was pretty much all down hill. But getting to Warrenheip involved getting up the Warrenheip bank. Permission was granted to haul one less vehicle up the bank. I'd have liked to see a DERM hauling a louvre and a Z van up the bank. Slow and noisy would spring to mind. The other vehicle appears to have been taken out by the Ballarat pilot and picked up at Warrenheip. In Jan 1932 someone saw the light and permission was granted for the pilot to haul the DERM and the trailing load up the bank to Warrenheip where it was let go to manage the rest on its own.

The 1936 GA had a page and a half of sections where a PERM or a Brill could haul vehicles. The vehicles ranged from passenger cars (BC, ABC), to vans (Z, CE), and freight stock (horse boxes, UB, I, livestock). Typically two vehicles could be attached. Around Echuca, for example, permission was granted to haul either 1) two Z vans or UB truck, 2) horse box and Z van, 3) loaded I truck and Z van, or 4) any fixed wheeled stock truck and Z van. These could be hauled to/from Bendigo, Deni, or Toolamba. The best permission was No 20 Up Sunday Whittlesea which could haul two standard trailers AND an ABC type car.

These permissions were all still pretty much in the 1953 GA.
  historian Assistant Commissioner

Arrgh.

Somehow Railpage managed to replace the text of hbedriver's informative post with the text from mine.

Sorry, hbedriver! It certainly wasn't deliberate on my part.
  hbedriver Train Controller

Dunno how you did that either, Historian, but if we did it could be handy at times with some posters! Your post (as usual) was quite good and informative.

So what about you, Maccification; does all the comments/memories/research help at all?

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