MetroCard or Daytrip ticket?

 
  DJPeters Assistant Commissioner

Mr Peters, just for you I did some very expensive research, luckily, being a quality scientist I have made sure that my experiment was repeatable, so you're welcome to give it a go yourself.

Spend 2x $2.70 (to ensure repeatability I did this four times) buying two paper tickets on the concourse. Put BOTH of them in the course 'valid ticket checkers' (because surely they're not 'validators' right?) use ONE to validate on board the train - it will give you what is now surely universally known as the 'justapassenger angry buzz'TM and the red light whilst saying 'already validated', don't be alarmed, you have your 'valid ticket checked, but not validated' ticket if anything goes wrong.

Sit down and enjoy the ride to someplace, wait a MINIMUM of two hours and catch the train back with the other ticket that was 'checked for validity' on the platform. Will you get a green light and a 'justapassenger pleasant ping'TM or a red light and a 'justapassenger angry buzz'TM

Let us know how you go, and we will compare your experiment with mine.
Aaron
Whoopee bloody do to you being a quality scienctist, I could not care if you are just the S**t house cleaner.

Ok So I go to Adelaide station and buy a ticket, now the machine that sells the tickets does not ask you were you want to go but only asks what kind of ticket you want, so you select the type and pay for it and now you have the ticket in your hand. Am I right so far.

Then you proceed to the barriers to go in and according to you it now validates the ticket, but I have a question for you how does the gate validator tell where you are going, see the bit about the buying the ticket. The only way that can happen is when you board a service as the driver has put in the specicfic run code etc onto the master control for that trains validators that will atomatically then set the ticket as validated as to going to Gawler or where ever it will only record that you got on a Gawler train though, it still does not know where you want to get off though, so on the way your girlfriend calls you and says I am at Salisbury so instead of going all the way to Gawler you get off at Salisbury. The system still does not know that you have got off before the ticket destination though.  The ticket is valid to North Adelaide or Gawler central and you can get off anywhere in between you like. Then reboard and continue yor trip without needing another ticket if you can do it in the two hour window that is.

So how can it validate a ticket at the barriers as you could change your mind like you did and catch another train on another line, or simply go back to the drinking or whatever where you came from, the ticket is good to go anywhere though you want to travel to. So could you please explain to us all how the gate validator knows exactly where anyone wants to go and how they do it. As a Quality scientist I am eagerly awaiting your response to this, and saying micro chips implanted is not an option.

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  patsstuffnow Junior Train Controller

David, You are embarrassing yourself again.

Validating a ticket does not record your destination, or from Adelaide it does not record which service.
All it does is record you have a valid ticket to travel for 2 hours.

The whole point of buying two tickets and validating one at the gates was to show you that it does validate at the gate, then by waiting AT LEAST two hours before returning was to show you that it did validate at the gate.

YOU REALLY NEED TO read stories properly instead of going off half baked all the time. ( it is dangerous to eat undercooked chicken)

Going back in time to logging on and off in other states, countries cities etc is that the distance travelled or time elapsed is what determines the charge
I will put it simply for you in the hope you may understand.

If you validate a ticket at the gates in Adelaide and travel to Bowden you will be charged for one validation ( this varies from peak, off peak, metro card, paper ticket etc.
A person validating behind you and travelling to Gawler  ,return to Adelaide, then to Belair will be charged exactly the same amount if they  complete it in the two hour limit.
There is no logging off required as you pay a fixed charge for two hours of travel even if you only use five minutes.


In other civilised places if you log on in say Melbourne then log out at North Melbourne will be charged X amount.
If the person travels from Southern Cross to the extremity of Zone 3 they will be charged X plus a greater amount.
The fare is determined by elapsed time, distance travelled, zones travelled in or combinations of these factors.


Surely you will be able to understand that !!!!
  DJPeters Assistant Commissioner

That is what I am getting at to be precise while you are in the area beyond the gates making your descision which train to catch it is valid for any train, so therefore all the gate has done is scanned that your ticket is valid and allowed you to get into that area. You cannot get into that area without a valid ticket well through the electronic gates anyway, you might be able to con one of the PSA's to look the other way or something but you would have to be a good actor to do it. Now when you get onto the train that you select to travel you then have to validate your ticket once you get on this does nothing at the validtor on the train that you can see except it prints a date and a time on your ticket that set's the time you valididate the ticket on the train to start the actual 2 hour limit into motion. You could walk around for hours with it in your wallet or pocket though and as long as you then use the ticket in the specified time of day allowed on it, I mean not trying to use a off peak ticket during peak here then it should stay as a valid ticket till it is actually validated on a service. It does not start from the time you purchase the ticket, but from the first validation on a service.

So if you don't it then it could always be used later. This is why they tell you to validate it on boarding, then when the ticket inspection comes along they can read that it was scanned at such and such time and it might even tell them where as well as not all info on the magnetic strip is printed onto the actual face of the ticket, as you know where you got on if you are honest that is. My sons used this system as my wife would purchase enough ticket's for a student for a week or more and just give them the tickets for the day they had to use it the rest sat in the drawer of my wifes side cupboard next to our bed. Later this was converted to a Student Metro card which made life a lot easier for us and the kids as well.

A lot of people do this and have in the past

The ticket once purchased is valid, even if they change the prices tomorrow and a lot use this to get cheaper rides by buying tickets in lots just before a price rise is announced, I have seen it done at Adelaide Station people buying tickets like this. As long as they do not get rid of that particular type of ticket though it should remain valid to still use at a later date. Here is the Adelaide metro video on how to use it, you note he says you only need it at Adelaide to get through the gate nothing more.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctCoN761-rM
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
David, You are embarrassing yourself again.
“patsstuffnow”
I would have said ‘still’.

Anyway, David, scientists follow data and construct a hypothesis around the data they observe, we then conduct experiments to test our hypothesis, good experiments have a documented procedure and are repeatable in nature.

Many of us have given you the hypothesis, and many anecdotal accounts of how it is so, in my case, even just the direct answer as supplied by some who works specifically with Metrocard payments.

Your Metrocard does not need to know where you are going, or even caring, even ticket inspectors with their little machines don’t actually care whether you validate on the train or not. Several times I validated on the platform and didn’t bother to wave my card on the train. When checked by the PSA it only tells them it’s been validated, and they continue on their way. Feel free to try that test too.

PLEASE further refrain from commenting until after you have repeated my experiment - at which point we can then discuss our findings, which should match.

Further comment from you without undertaking the experiment will result in me talking to you like you’re REALLY stupid.
  kipioneer Chief Commissioner

Location: Aberfoyle Park
Yes, David, entering the paid area at Adelaide, the gates don't care which service you are going to use, but they do make the assumption that you have started your journey so they deduct the appropriate fare if required, specifically if not transfering from another service within the time limit.

Given Adelaide has a flat fare - $x for 2 hours travel, but allowing you to finish a journey beyond that 2 hours, this is a perfectly valid thing to do.

Assuming you have commenced a further journey if you exit the station in that third hour isn't!

This is a common practice: if I enter the London Underground at, say, Gloucester Road station then I have several choices of train to catch, the District to central London or to Heathrow or Wimbledon, or the Circle to Paddington and Central London.     My journey starts at the gates and ends when I tap off at the gates at the other end.

Adelaide is no different except there is no provision to tap off except at Adelaide station where it is required.
  kipioneer Chief Commissioner

Location: Aberfoyle Park
The metrocard history I posted at https://www.railpage.com.au/f-p2098364.htm#2098364 clearly shows fares being deducted at the gate.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
I have friends visiting from interstate soon, they are interested in going for a ride on the OBahn (which I must admit I haven't done since they opened the tunnel); I don't think they'll like Tea Tree Plaza but I guess it's somewhere to go for lunch before taking the bus back to the city. The other thing we might do if we have time is catch the train as far as Noarlunga or Seaford, it's a really amazing view of the Gulf in some places and I guess the electric train is the premium new attraction.

If it's only for the day then I guess pre-buying them a full-fare disposable Daytrip each is the way to go? I did wonder whether I should keep Metrocards for visitors now that they're free.
  Halo Chief Train Controller

Finishing your journey post 2 hours is also a bucket of smeg.

I took a 3pm bus to town, TRANSFERRED at the barrier gate 3.35pm. Alighted at Gawler.
Boarded at Gawler TRANSFER 4.40pm then got charged FARE at the barrier gates a full peak charge to leave the Adelaide station and travel nowhere.

When I questioned the ticket staff I was told "that's how it works"
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Halo, which ticket staff did you question? Call the number on the back of your card, they will reverse the charge - that’s what I did, staff at the station seem to have about as much idea as Mr Peters.
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Maybe that comparison is a bit unfair, staff in the station at least know the platform barriers charge you to enter/exit if necessary.
  ARG706 Chief Commissioner

Location: SA
Finishing your journey post 2 hours is also a bucket of smeg.

I took a 3pm bus to town, TRANSFERRED at the barrier gate 3.35pm. Alighted at Gawler.
Boarded at Gawler TRANSFER 4.40pm then got charged FARE at the barrier gates a full peak charge to leave the Adelaide station and travel nowhere.

When I questioned the ticket staff I was told "that's how it works"
"Halo"


A polite way to say DILLIGAF. 100% perfect system, in the DPTI's opinion. Bloody disgraceful is how I would describe it.
  Gayspie Assistant Commissioner

Location: Adelaide, SA
All i see in this thread is a few grumpy old men arguing over a few dollars.

Next please...
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
No Heath, it’s not about the tiny amount of money, it’s the principal of not paying for a service that you didn’t use.

I shouldn’t be charged for entering a platform and not being able to catch a train, and Halo shouldn’t be charged to exit a platform after using a service he has already paid for, there being no other way to leave the platform.

The government wastes enough money as it is, you will learn with some added age to NEVER give them more than you’re required to, because they’ll only waste that too.
  Gayspie Assistant Commissioner

Location: Adelaide, SA
No Heath, it’s not about the tiny amount of money, it’s the principal of not paying for a service that you didn’t use.

I shouldn’t be charged for entering a platform and not being able to catch a train, and Halo shouldn’t be charged to exit a platform after using a service he has already paid for, there being no other way to leave the platform.

The government wastes enough money as it is, you will learn with some added age to NEVER give them more than you’re required to, because they’ll only waste that too.
Aaron
I am a socialist you know. Smile
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Yeah, well you probably don’t even know what a socialist is.

Even so, socialism isn’t what it used to be, formerly they could at least be counted on for being at least partially educated.

Today I walked past whichever ‘socialist’ group is was that was protesting ‘Adani’s coal mine and coal mining in the Galilee Basin’ - so I did what any experienced debater of idiots would do and asked the three people holding the sign a simple question: ‘Can you even tell me where the Galilee Basin is?’ - dumbfounded looks was all the response I got (and expected).
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
No Heath, it’s not about the tiny amount of money, it’s the principal of not paying for a service that you didn’t use.

I shouldn’t be charged for entering a platform and not being able to catch a train, and Halo shouldn’t be charged to exit a platform after using a service he has already paid for, there being no other way to leave the platform.

The government wastes enough money as it is, you will learn with some added age to NEVER give them more than you’re required to, because they’ll only waste that too.
I am a socialist you know. Smile
Heath Loxton
From the dictionary

socialism ˈsəʊʃəlɪz(ə)m noun [mass noun] a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.• policy or practice based on the political and economic theory of socialism.• (in Marxist theory) a transitional social state between the overthrow of capitalism and the realization of Communism.The term ‘socialism’ has been used to describe positions as far apart as anarchism, Soviet state Communism, and social democracy; however, it necessarily implies an opposition to the untrammelled workings of the economic market. The socialist parties that have arisen in most European countries from the late 19th century have generally tended towards social democracy.

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