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  ARG706 Chief Commissioner

Location: SA
II had a glance at the newer timetable, and I noticed that the scheduled arrival times at Woodville in all directions seem to be flawed. The up Grange trains have 8 minutes to this station, and then 14 minutes to get to Adelaide. It is too tight in the first section, and a bit loose in the subsequent one to Adelaide. It is unrealistic in my opinion, and it will be commonplace for trains to arrive one minute late. I wouldn't count on making a 100 bus scheduled to depart from the vicinity 3 minutes after the scheduled departure time from Albert Park...

On the down, it is the same. 9 minutes is about right from here to Grange, and the reverse. It is like expecting a train to depart Nurlutta, then depart Salisbury exactly 2 minutes later during the Clipsal weekend, or even the reverse from the city with the train using the up platform to unload.

Although, a 3 car Jumbo from Noarlunga to Adelaide stopping all to Goodwood with 42 minutes to the city was a tiny bit more unrealistic I'll admit. 3000 class sets achieved it about 1 in 4 times from my obs as a teenager.

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  patsstuffnow Junior Train Controller

@ ARG,
Timetables on the Grange line have always been flawed.
So many trains have been delayed on this line for close to 100 years.

Had it not been for the munitions plant and subsequent Philips factory at Hendon this line would have been long gone.
I am currently living at Grange. forty minutes by bus to city via Henley beach Road, 35 by Grange Road
20 minutes by train.
However the half hourly service compared to the 15 min bus headways mean it can be faster by bus.
It comes back to a lack of rollingstock , lack of inspiration by timetable planners, and the political stability of the seat.

Currently most down trains wait at the old Holdens station site for the up train to clear. Just like they have done for longer than I have been alive. It used to be better when Albert Park had a crossing loop.
All services stay at Grange for 13 minutes, Day and night. If this time were utilised better it would be quite easy to run services every twenty minutes.
However this would require an extra set of railcars, or need a split of a two car set to two singles, but that does not increase capacity, just frequency.

If the Gawler electrification ever proceeds ( cough ,cough, cough) the usual at least fifty percent increase in patronage on electrified lines will require an increased fleet of sparks. If the current fleet were to be cascaded to other lines there would be some capacity to increase frequency and patronage on the whole system. But that would need a group capable of planning for the future.
( it is like a group I think of, who built a very expensive hospital to cater for an ageing and expanding population with just sixty extra beds and an emergency department that is already overcrowded)
I also remember discussions with my late father about his first job. It was in the city and he lived at Cheltenham.
The train was a maximum seven car consist, Hauled by an F class, always crowded as were the trains either side of it at about fifteen minute intervals. There was a push from locals to their local MP's to add another service.
This would have required a new loco and seven new carriages ( possibly built by Pengilly/ Holdens) and some extra train crew.
In preparation for this the existing train was run ten minutes later, to clear a path for the extra service.
The initial result was that people arrived in the city too late to start work, so they were forced to walk to Torrens or Port road to use alternative services.
As a result patronage on the train dropped so only 4 cars were needed and the railways saved the cost of a new consist.
65 years later I moved into the same house, had a job at Marion and was forced to use public transport.
Left for work at the same time.
It had progressed from an F with 7 cars ( about 400 seats)
to a 2 car redhen with ( 200 seats) previously had been a 3 car redhen.
Today it is a 2x 3000 class, still about 200 seats.

We have St Clair, urban infill and TOD's all along the way, roads that are choking with poorly sequenced traffic lights, and less people walking or riding bikes to work. And how much has the public transport been increased?

In the days of Holdens at Woodville it got busy around the area for twenty minutes or so either side of shift changes.
Nowadays to travel along Port Road from Woodville south to Albert Park can take you 25 minutes because of poor traffic light sequencing, level crossing delays, and complete lack of interest by people in improving traffic flows.
This is very close to where the outgoing Premier allegedly lives.  And just up the road from where the former transport ministers electorate is.
What hope does the rest of the state have?

Or alternatively travel via Torrens Road, past the skinny carpark alongside Arndale. Yes Torrens Road is a skinny carpark several kilometres long, ( or travel on David terrace and take five sequences to clear one set of traffic lights, and two or three trains to clear the level crossing. )
Then try to get past the 40 year old railway overpass ( HA HA HA HA) with previously acquired houses now scrubby park) and incomplete bike lanes.
All this to get to the city of Adelaide, You know the 20 minute city.

Sorry for the long post, but this state really needs a new vision to cater for public and private transport into the future
  DJPeters Assistant Commissioner

What If the Grange line was double tracked to say Seaton that would probably speed the service up the right of way is there to do it if it has not been sold off. It would mean a double track crossing at Port Road but would eliminate the waiting at the Holdens loop at Woodvile. The Grange train can then get to seaton to wait for the the Adelaide bound train or could pass it somewhere between Port Road and Seaton. No stopping then of either train.

To remove this  level crossing on Port Road  road bridge's could be built over the level cropssing and also the adjacent road crossing so eliminating two potential hold ups to through traffic on Port Road. You would have to add access roads for those that want to use West Lakes Boulevard or Cheltenham Parade but that can be done on seperate lanes on the road bridge's.
  patsstuffnow Junior Train Controller

David, What frequency of service do you want to run to Grange?

At present there is either 30 minutes or 1 hour between services.
All trains sit at Grange for 13 minutes.

To run trains every twenty minutes all you need to do is reduce the waiting time at Grange to about five minutes. Plus you would need an extra set of railcars to add into the diagram, or improve running times on another line.

The current schedule allows 8 or nine minutes Grange to Woodville. Plus three minutes as a minimum turnaround at GRANGE means you need 20 minutes to do the cycle.

So a fifteen minute service is not possible.

The other problem is two trains crossing Port Road every service, and usually quite close to each other. This compounds delays at Crows Corner and means build ups of traffic as far back as Allenby Gardens.

If the line was duplicated from Holdens to the other side of Port Road and enough length to hold a train there it would mean that when a cross took place you would only need to close port road once.
This would allow the introduction of a fifteen minute service which could encourage more people to rail rather than the uncomfortable bus ride through Henley and Henley Beach road.

Duplicating the track to Seaton Park would not provide any actual benefit, cost car parks at Albert Park,  and waste extra funds.



Recently I mentioned utilising Glanville as the turnaround point instead of Osborne. This has been partly introduced in the new timetable. But if introduced how I suggested, it would free up a set of cars in the peak which could provide the extra cars needed to run a fifteen minute service for Grange.

Another possibility comes from history.
I can remember while watching trains at Belair that the Belair train would run to  Adelaide, then Grange, Then back to Belair.
I think that if somebody got motivated and put a Glanville train into that diagram that you could probably utilise the railcars better and probably get more journeys completed.
  DJPeters Assistant Commissioner

I am just allowing for the future a bit that is all should they want to add more services then that way they could in the future or even extend the double track to East Grange and just have a single track from there to Grange acoount not enough width in the right of way. This was just because some suggested putting the passing siding back in at Albert Park, might as well go the whole hog so to speak. Just an Idea that is all to speed up the current service a bit really and allow a better train service in the future. It could get more people to use it if it was a bit more frequent than it is now.

Another way to do it would be to have a set of railcars just running the shuttle service from Woodville to Grange and back to Woodville all the time, this used to be done when the Red Hens were used and they swapped over every so often with a fresh set that ran from Adelaide to Woodvile to replace the cars coming off the Grange line and running back to Adelaide. That actually might be the better way as it would then free up another path on the Adelaide to Woodville section to allow either Port Adelaide Dock trains to run if needed or to increase the Glanville Shuttles.

THe section from Adelaide to Woodville would still have the same service as now just that you have to change trains at Woodville to get to Grange and that is only a matter of walking across the island platform all of about a couple of metres.
  justapassenger Chief Commissioner

Are you going to answer my question on the other thread?

I'm quite interested to read this federal Rail Safety Act which you referenced.
  ARG706 Chief Commissioner

Location: SA

I can remember while watching trains at Belair that the Belair train would run to  Adelaide, then Grange, Then back to Belair.
I think that if somebody got motivated and put a Glanville train into that diagram that you could probably utilise the railcars better and probably get more journeys completed.
"patsstuffnow"


What could be an improvement would be running the Grange trains to fit with the current schedule on the Gawler Central line. I remember when the service had 20 minutes to Grange, and back. It allowed 7-8 minutes to transfer to the Grange train from the GC one, and 5 minutes for transfers from the Grange train to the one to GC.

Nowadays, things are a little bit different with different speed limits in the yard, and overall slower movement to and from ARS. This means that such a schedule today would possibly result in plenty of missed connections and late running.

I think a 30 minute frequency all day would be adequate on weekends when there aren't special events on etc. The reinstatement of Millswood makes the original crossing pattern on the Belair line virtually impossible to perform. If an overpass at the Unley Park crossing is ever built, it may even be practical to include a new crossing loop there within the budget. The current length between crossing loops requires minimal dwelling, very low patronage levels and skilled driving in order to keep to them, and even then one can only just do it.

It is not 1996 any more, but it certainly seems like it in regards to the existing layout of loops on the Belair line.

And all of this is a result of the gauge mess in Australia, as well as privatising the freight systems.
  Pressman Spirit of the Vine

Location: Wherever the Tin Chook or Qantas takes me
If anyone has noticed whilst worrying about validating their tickets or not ..........
There is a 20kph TSR for South bound trams only along King William Street between Angas Street and Gillies Street
Couldn't see any obvious problems from the car.
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
In the week after Easter I saw some hi viz wearers looking at some overhead cable stays south, then further north of there. Maybe they’ve found some sort of cable alignment issue, or a wearing of the cable or something to do with the overhead?
  justapassenger Chief Commissioner

Anyone know any details about the freight train derailment which has blocked the Main Road crossing at Glenalta?

DPTI Facebook posted three hours ago (about 9am)
The level crossing at Main Road, Glenalta, is currently stuck down due to an Australian Rail Track Corporation incident.
Detours are in place. Please find an alternative route if possible.
Note this will have no impacts to Adelaide Metro train services.
DPTISA


I found on one of the websites with GRN text feeds at 8:18am...
FOR INFO - RAIL CROSSING AT MAIN RD GLENALTA BLOCKED FOR AT LEAST NEXT 5 HRS DUE TO MINOR DERAILMENT - DIVERSIONS IN PLACE
CFS - STURT GROUP OFFICERS RESPONSE
CFS

This will present an opportunity for the Liberals, particularly Sam Duluk, to affirm that they are still in favour of building a bypass of the hills line now that they are in government and not just taking pot shots from the safety of the opposition benches.

In the aftermath of a night with lots of incidents for damage caused by severe weather and a few grass fires started by lightning, I also found this on the GRN feed which gave me a laugh:
*CFSRES INC0041 21/04/18 11:24 RESPOND ASSIST RESIDENT, ALARM LEVEL: 1, FIFE ST/WASHINGTON ST ANGASTON,MAP:SAG 1 D13,TG 095, ==MAGPIE CAUGHT ON LAMP POST BY NECK. CALL FROM FAUNA RESCUE ==POSSIBLY REQUIRE EUTHANASING TAKE TO VET IF REQ :ANGN24P :
CFS
  justapassenger Chief Commissioner

DPTI Facebook post now updated:
UPDATE: Trains are only running between Adelaide and Blackwood on the Belair line to allow ARTC to rectify an issue with a freight train.
A substitute bus service will run between Blackwood and Glenalta. Due to the location of cranes, the bus cannot service Pinera or Belair train stations. Please use regular Adelaide Metro bus services.
DPTISA

Sounds serious.
  62440 Chief Commissioner

New OH timetable on line is not the easiest to use with train services listed by origin, not time. Express Port Adelaide to Adelaide should be a fun ride now the platform TSR's have gone. But working out train times would be a lot easier in time order, it is not as if there are overtaking services
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
This will present an opportunity for the Liberals, particularly Sam Duluk, to affirm that they are still in favour of building a bypass of the hills line now that they are in government and not just taking pot shots from the safety of the opposition benches.
justapassenger
As if.

Steve Marshall has already said (basically) "no new projects" - he wants tax cuts, not big ticket expenditure on a freight by-pass of the Adelaide hills. They might go through the motions though, before they tell us that it's not something the Commonwealth are going to help them fund.
  SAR520SMBH Junior Train Controller

Have seen photos and reports on FB justapassenger.
Most recent pics show a 100 tonne road crane being used to clear the damaged/derailed wagons, possibly 5 in total, right near the Glenalta road crossing.
The train looks like it's been backed up to clear the crossing. The rear part of the train is still at Belair station.
Other photos show possible damage to the points at the east end of the Belair loop, the same points where the last derailment happened. Whether this is where the wagon derailed or not, I'm not sure.
As I write, Sam Duluk is speaking to local residents in the area and has spoken to some onlookers at the site.
  justapassenger Chief Commissioner

This will present an opportunity for the Liberals, particularly Sam Duluk, to affirm that they are still in favour of building a bypass of the hills line now that they are in government and not just taking pot shots from the safety of the opposition benches.
As if.

Steve Marshall has already said (basically) "no new projects" - he wants tax cuts, not big ticket expenditure on a freight by-pass of the Adelaide hills. They might go through the motions though, before they tell us that it's not something the Commonwealth are going to help them fund.
don_dunstan
I thought that the other opportunity (for Shifty Steve and Slimy Sam to prove they are empty shirts) only needed to be implied, not explicitly stated.

New OH timetable on line is not the easiest to use with train services listed by origin, not time. Express Port Adelaide to Adelaide should be a fun ride now the platform TSR's have gone. But working out train times would be a lot easier in time order, it is not as if there are overtaking services
62440
The online timetable has been like that with services listed separately by origin/destination for a few years now, but it does show all trains serving the stops you select when you build a custom selection.

There is always the option of the 'print version' PDF, and the train timetables are available in hard copy at Adelaide.
Belair - https://www.adelaidemetro.com.au/content/download/905726/4739498/version/1/file/Belair_train_ttable_routemap_22-04-18.pdf
Gawler - https://www.adelaidemetro.com.au/content/download/905728/4739507/version/2/file/Gawler_train_ttable_routemap_22-04-18.pdf
Outer Harbor - https://www.adelaidemetro.com.au/content/download/905732/4739526/version/1/file/Outer_Harbor_%26_Grange_train_ttable_routemap_22-04-18.pdf
Seaford - https://www.adelaidemetro.com.au/content/download/905733/4739530/version/1/file/Seaford_%26_Tonsley_train_ttable_routemap_22-04-18.pdf
  justapassenger Chief Commissioner

But right now, I really want to know what happened to the poor maggie at Angaston.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
But right now, I really want to know what happened to the poor maggie at Angaston.
justapassenger
I rescued a maggie from being tangled in some fishing line when I was a kiddie; hopefully that makes up for the odd one that I've run-over!
  patsstuffnow Junior Train Controller

Everybody is starting to show their political bias now.

The hills freight line is under ARTC control.
The state government has little control over that.

And these new changes to local timetables are remnants of the previous labor government . The libs have not had enough time yet to go through the processes yet , especially from public servants etc with bylines like Slimy Steve, Slippery Sam etc.

I was not watching the media yesterday or today. Has the line to Belair been cleared yet?

Have a narrow minded ( I mean gauge ) experience this week.

Cheers
  Pressman Spirit of the Vine

Location: Wherever the Tin Chook or Qantas takes me
Everybody is starting to show their political bias now.

The hills freight line is under ARTC control.
The state government has little control over that.

And these new changes to local timetables are remnants of the previous labor government . The libs have not had enough time yet to go through the processes yet , especially from public servants etc with bylines like Slimy Steve, Slippery Sam etc.

I was not watching the media yesterday or today. Has the line to Belair been cleared yet?

Have a narrow minded ( I mean gauge ) experience this week.

Cheers
patsstuffnow
And the ARTC has already indicated they have NO interest in a Hill Bypass saying it is not currently viable.
Wonder what the hills residents would say because if the freight to Adelaide was detoured and took two hours longer to arrive then the already precarious balance between road and rail on this corridor would tip firmly towards road, so more B-Doubles and HPFV's would be blocking up "their" (the Hills residents) Freeway
(HPFV = High Productivity Freight Vehicle = Road Trains as Victorian Governments now calls them!)

Belair Line
NR98 + 6 Flats + NR68 (top & tail) through Keswick at 12:00,
Main Road Level Crossing blocked at 13:00 with NR68 just north of the crossing,
Large Mobile crane trackside preparing to lift a number of Bogies and at least 2 flat cars onto the recovery train
So expect Main Road crossing to be blocked for a few hours.

Also note there is absolutely NO pre-warning of the crossing closure with most motorists heading north having to U-Turn and find another route
  Spletsie Chief Commissioner

Just wondering if anyone has information about whether the three additional Citadis 302 trams from Madrid have entered service, and if so, when this occurred.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
I may have already asked this (or on another thread?) but I'm still curious to know what Steve Marshall will do with the tram extensions built under Weatherill - if they'll press ahead with the services that Weatherill wanted or present something different to the public.

My personal opinion is that Marshall should press ahead with the plan to extend to tram to the end of O'Connell Street but make it a paid fares service beyond the Adelaide Oval.
  62430 Chief Train Controller

Location: Metro Adelaide
Just wondering if anyone has information about whether the three additional Citadis 302 trams from Madrid have entered service, and if so, when this occurred.
Spletsie
208 (ex Madrid 154) was reported in service on 4th April.  I first observed it the following day on one of the afternoon peak workings.  Since then it appeared on such workings almost daily. Last Friday, yesterday and today 208 was out on all day runs.  It is currently bearing panel ads from the Adelaide Uni Red Hen campaign.

I have not seen 207 or 209 out on test yet but have my eyes peeled for developments.

Three things need to happen before the North Terrace shuttle commences: completion of the stops, commissioning of the 3 new trams and training of additional drivers. Over the past 2-3 months there has been an on-going programme of driver training with often 2-3 training runs taking place most weekdays.
  justapassenger Chief Commissioner

Posted today by DPTI, the old tracks across Churchill Road North are finally being removed:

CHURCHILL ROAD NORTH, CAVAN ROADWORKS

Works will be undertaken on Churchill Road North near Port Wakefield Road to remove disused railway tracks and resurface the road between 7pm and 6am on weeknights from tonight until Sunday 20 May, weather permitting.

Parking restrictions will be in place after 6pm in this area. Please follow directions from signage and traffic management staff.

Thank you for your patience while these works are completed.
DPTISA
  Pressman Spirit of the Vine

Location: Wherever the Tin Chook or Qantas takes me
Posted today by DPTI, the old tracks across Churchill Road North are finally being removed:

CHURCHILL ROAD NORTH, CAVAN ROADWORKS

Works will be undertaken on Churchill Road North near Port Wakefield Road to remove disused railway tracks and resurface the road between 7pm and 6am on weeknights from tonight until Sunday 20 May, weather permitting.

Parking restrictions will be in place after 6pm in this area. Please follow directions from signage and traffic management staff.

Thank you for your patience while these works are completed.
justapassenger
The final death nell of the former Northfield line
  Spletsie Chief Commissioner

Just wondering if anyone has information about whether the three additional Citadis 302 trams from Madrid have entered service, and if so, when this occurred.
208 (ex Madrid 154) was reported in service on 4th April.  I first observed it the following day on one of the afternoon peak workings.  Since then it appeared on such workings almost daily. Last Friday, yesterday and today 208 was out on all day runs.  It is currently bearing panel ads from the Adelaide Uni Red Hen campaign.

I have not seen 207 or 209 out on test yet but have my eyes peeled for developments.

Three things need to happen before the North Terrace shuttle commences: completion of the stops, commissioning of the 3 new trams and training of additional drivers. Over the past 2-3 months there has been an on-going programme of driver training with often 2-3 training runs taking place most weekdays.
62430
Thanks for the information 62430.

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