Murray Basin standardisation

 
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
For Port rail access for Melbourne and Geelong see: https://www.railpage.com.au/f-t11397900.htm

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  Jack Le Lievre Assistant Commissioner

Location: Moolap Station, Vic
Is there any contractual agreement between DPW and SCT?  I seem to recall them doing a tie up at Botany.

I wonder if this is anticompetitive?
james.au
DPW & SCT do currently have a long-term contractual agreement (West Swanson Dock), as does Patrick & PN (Patrick, Appleton Dock), one of the reasons why QUBE purchased Westgate Logistics so that they had better access into Victoria Dock. At the moment DPW & PN have a short-term contractual agreement so that PN can deliver for a customer on the days that SCT isn't running the Dooen into West Swanson Dock.

And yes, DPW & SCT signed a long-term contractual agreement for access to DPW, Port Botany.
  MetroFemme Assistant Commissioner

I am confused I must confess as I always believed it was the job of the rail company to deliver wagons to locations on the network.

Why would having some wagons go to one dock and others to another in the same area be a blocker for rail?

Must be an Australian problem.
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
I am confused I must confess as I always believed it was the job of the rail company to deliver wagons to locations on the network.

Why would having some wagons go to one dock and others to another in the same area be a blocker for rail?

Must be an Australian problem.
MetroFemme
Inadequate volumes
Cost
Will
Infrastructure
Bureaucracy
Paths
Crews
Rolling stock
Shunting
Trip trains

Linehaul to a major city terminal and then road the last mile or so to the dock for a consignment of only a few TEU. Trip train to the docks like in Sydney by all means if one has the traffic to warrant it but at the end of the day this is still Victoria so far as infrastructure and train paths etc are concerned.

Need to be careful to avoid the single wagon train.
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

The Port Rail Shuttle could help with this, in theory.

Suppose 15 wagons ex Mildura were bound for Victoria Dock on a 60-wagon fruity. Then PN could drop the 15 at Truganina for the next Vic Dock run to pick up and continue on to Appleton - maybe even picking up additional Appleton loading along the way.

Of course the question is whether a) the PRS will ever come to anything and b) whether anyone relevant will think of these possibilities.

The other issue of course is paths. Realistically how much longer before duplication of the SG Tottenham-Geelong is needed? With the increasing traffic from the NW it's only a matter of time and political will.
  james.au Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney, NSW
@YM-Mundrabilla add incumbent intransigence/resistance to your list too I think.  They dont want it made easier for others to compete with them
  james.au Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney, NSW
@potatoinmymouth I'm pretty sure if loaded grain wagons are left here ad there some numnuts will try breaking into them Wink  but the rest of the idea makes ideal sense
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

This was prompted by discussion in the ‘Can Sprinters in Victoria be converted to standard gauge?’ thread in the Locomotives and Rolling Stock Forum. Will there be track-circuit problems with BG V/Locitys operating on DG track between Ballarat and Maryborough, as eventually they will be the only ones using the BG rail (at the moment 4 movements a day), ie no freights to clear the rust?
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

The good money would be on yes, because that’s the sort of thing we’re capable of in Victoria.

Stand by in 2019 for “Better Services; Faster Trains: Dunolly passengers will benefit from a $62.3 gazillion investment by the Appleby Government to improve rail services along their line.

Rail Projects Victoria, V/Line, VicTrack, PTV, TFV, ARTC, and the Church of Jesus Christ and the Latter-Day Saints will deliver a range of upgrades to level crossings, enabling the newest trains in the V/Line fleet to run at high speeds of up to 30km/h through Creswick, Talbot and Woop-Woop.

Some disruptions will be inevitable as these game-changing works are carried out. Plan your journey ahead of time, or preferably, don’t go anywhere at all.”
  james.au Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney, NSW
https://www.araratadvertiser.com.au/story/5512484/minister-admits-ararat-maryborough-freight-line-faults/?cs=1894

Confirmation that contractors have been removed from project.

Line speed 40kph though in August when the LX are done.  Seems to implicitly confirm other issues to be resolved...
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
https://www.araratadvertiser.com.au/story/5512484/minister-admits-ararat-maryborough-freight-line-faults/?cs=1894

Confirmation that contractors have been removed from project.

Line speed 40kph though in August when the LX are done.  Seems to implicitly confirm other issues to be resolved...
james.au
As in line speed is 25 km/h now and will be raised by just 15 km/h to 40 in August (probably August 32nd!).

Doesn't sound like the LXs are the only problem then does it. A very poor outcome for rail in this state and not one that is going to inspire the feds to tip money into future rail projects in Victoria.

BG
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

Eh, don’t give up just yet BG. It did occur to me after seeing that photo in the AA article that perhaps Mr Weimar has been brought on board to build up V/Line’s infrastructure street smarts as well as their operational abilities - after a couple of years at the helm of the good ship PTV he’d probably have learned a thing or too about project delivery.

I also enjoy his semi-regular appearances on Jon Faine’s show and he doesn’t strike me as the sort of guy who’d be too impressed with that kind of investment to produce class 5 track.

The other thing to keep in mind is that project management has been taken over by V/Line directly, so it might be easier for a state lackey to convince the Minister of the need for 100km of new rail than a private contractor trying to win the next tender.
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
And this is a railway totally relaid from the ground up. If there was to be a 'highlight' section of the Mildura standardisation this should have been it - a 'new' railway, albeit somewhat technically lightweight due to cheapskate sleepers and secondhand rail neither of which should have resulted in the 'old NG Ghan' speed outcome that has been seized from the jaws of success.

Given the 'new' railway bit one has to wonder how much of the sad outcome (however temporary) is due to nanny state thinking/activity. Not even the umpteen kilometres north of Maryborough which was a bit of a patchup and gauge conversion is as bad.

Wait until there is a derailment and then the balloon will really go up ..................Twisted Evil
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Eh, don’t give up just yet BG. It did occur to me after seeing that photo in the AA article that perhaps Mr Weimar has been brought on board to build up V/Line’s infrastructure street smarts as well as their operational abilities - after a couple of years at the helm of the good ship PTV he’d probably have learned a thing or too about project delivery.

I also enjoy his semi-regular appearances on Jon Faine’s show and he doesn’t strike me as the sort of guy who’d be too impressed with that kind of investment to produce class 5 track.

The other thing to keep in mind is that project management has been taken over by V/Line directly, so it might be easier for a state lackey to convince the Minister of the need for 100km of new rail than a private contractor trying to win the next tender.
potatoinmymouth
If Weimar is so clever and competent how has he allowed the situation to deteriorate to the outcome that has now emerged?

This project has now been on the go for at least six months and to now find a sub standard outcome at so called completion is an indictment on those in charge of the job (Allan, Weimar and the entire Vline mob) from day one.

Where is the Auditor General? What do the Feds who contributed a wagon load of $$$s to the project have to say?
  Carnot Minister for Railways

40 km/h is for 21T axle load trains. It should be 65k for 19T.  A poor outcome regardless.
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

If Weimar is so clever and competent how has he allowed the situation to deteriorate to the outcome that has now emerged?
YM-Mundrabilla
I don’t know anything about the man and your skepticism is probably warranted.

But I don’t think PTV had much, if anything, to do with the project after the change of government. The original brochures were produced by them but planning has since been removed from their remit. This is not to defend any individual and really points to the fact that no minister or government body has direct and obvious responsibility for rail freight.
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
40 km/h is for 21T axle load trains. It should be 65k for 19T.  A poor outcome regardless.
Carnot
We might get 80 km/h for a section car, perhaps if we spin hard enough?
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
If Weimar is so clever and competent how has he allowed the situation to deteriorate to the outcome that has now emerged?
I don’t know anything about the man and your skepticism is probably warranted.

But I don’t think PTV had much, if anything, to do with the project after the change of government. The original brochures were produced by them but planning has since been removed from their remit. This is not to defend any individual and really points to the fact that no minister or government body has direct and obvious responsibility for rail freight.
potatoinmymouth
Surely SOME bastard (b it ch?) was in charge.
The sheila in the new flak jacket and the shiny crash hat, perhaps?Sad
  Carnot Minister for Railways

80 km/h on the current track? Unlikely.
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
80 km/h on the current track? Unlikely.
Carnot
So re railing really needs to be done !

Are there any 94 LB rails surplus from the RFR upgrade ? or have they already all been redeployed.
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
Surely SOME bastard (b it ch?) was in charge.
The sheila in the new flak jacket and the shiny crash hat, perhaps?Sad
YM-Mundrabilla
I think we are going around in circles here, I thought that we had established that the problems with this project stem from the fact that it was being delivered by V/Fail https://www.ptv.vic.gov.au/projects/rail-projects/murray-basin-rail-project

Now it has / will be taken over by RPV (Rail Projects Victoria) who will either a) do a good job as they have done with their previous project or b) get dragged down by the project and sully their good name.

I for one certainly hope that it is the former but anything is possible it seems and the fact that the scope of the works seems to have been insufficient in the first place (second hand rail, failure to address problems with interface at Ararat and Ballarat) does not bode well for it.

I wouldn't be at all surprised to see the Government announce the end of the project due to the stench around it and then re-brand stages 3 and beyond (which have now disappeared from the MBS website and been replaced by "future stages") into some new project.

It is also interesting to note that the Freight - Passenger rail separation project now appears on the MBS site as part of the project

https://www.murraybasinrailproject.com.au/

BG
  james.au Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney, NSW
80 km/h on the current track? Unlikely.
So re railing really needs to be done !

Are there any 94 LB rails surplus from the RFR upgrade ? or have they already all been redeployed.
Nightfire
How much distance between welds?  - i wonder if it is full rerailing or maybe they can get away with the sections around the welds?
  BigShunter Chief Commissioner

Location: St Clair. S.A.
What's happening here, the sky is falling again, james has posted exactly the same info I did a couple of days ago and the end of the world is in sight, more re-railing, people need to be flogged, it's a disgrace, what's with delayed reaction, all Jacinta has said, is at the end of august the speed limit will be raised to 40k, there may well still be other work being carried out on the line, steady up in the panic dept, folks  Rolling Eyes

How about we wait until a complete de-rail and 50 wagons are up side down before a linching squad is called.

BigShunter.
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
What's happening here, the sky is falling again, james has posted exactly the same info I did a couple of days ago and the end of the world is in sight, more re-railing, people need to be flogged, it's a disgrace, what's with delayed reaction, all Jacinta has said, is at the end of august the speed limit will be raised to 40k, there may well still be other work being carried out on the line, steady up in the panic dept, folks  Rolling Eyes

How about we wait until a complete de-rail and 50 wagons are up side down before a linching squad is called.

BigShunter.
BigShunter
Sorry Shunter but I can't agree. This project seems to have been mismanaged from the get go. I bet London to a brick that the project is facing a pretty big budget over run and it seems that the remaining stages are to be postponed / scrapped / rolled into some other project so a couple of pollies can try to save their own skins by never releasing the true costs of each stage of the project.

Information about the project is being removed / modified to reduce accountablility - the project timeline on the website is now 2015 > 2019 with all references to which stage will be done by when having been removed.

And at the end of the day it will mean more money having to be paid by us poor schmucks the taxpayers of Victoria / Australia.

More than 5 months have passed since this press release https://www.premier.vic.gov.au/murray-basin-rail-project-reopens-the-mildura-line/ championed the re-opening of the line following a 7 month closure. Yet still trains crawl along at 25 km/h in some sections due to works not having been completed 12 months after the BG line was closed for conversion.

The more light is shone on things like this the better, I don't buy the "trust me, I'm a public servant" line for a second.

BG
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

steady up in the panic dept, folks
BigShunter

It’s the only department we’ve got!

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