V/Line CEO Jeroen Weimar takes standing only high capacity trains off the table

 
Topic moved from News by bevans on 20 Aug 2018 11:47
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Good call CEO.  To remove seats on long distance services to Geelong and Beyond is not a good idea.  When are the new trains arriving to provide additional capacity?

If they did remove the seats then these trains would presumably be used in non peak times and provide less seats.

The answer is more frequent services thereby reducing overcrowding.

V/Line CEO Jeroen Weimar takes standing only high capacity trains off the table

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  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

Looks like they are looking at developing at least two new trains - a long-haul and a high capacity. Seems from his comments a one size fits all VLo fleet is not his preferred result.

Interesting times ahead.
  MetroFemme Assistant Commissioner

Making passengers stand on south Geelong to Melbourne services is very poor form. Where would this idea have come from the ministers office?
  Lockie91 Assistant Commissioner

I would hazard a guess that Vlos will become our new long distance fleet. With V/line already confirming that will insert buffet cars into the 3 car sets.

Next generation will be more geared towards inter-city commuters. If we really want to go out on a limb and read into what Dan Andrews has been hinting at. They might even be EMU’s to begin running between Geelong and Ballarat to Melbourne.

Six car sets with all the comforts of a Vlos with extra seating. Improved acceleration and breaking thanks to electric traction power. Possibly even pushing 200kms/h
  damooops Junior Train Controller

Location: The Revenue Raising State
G'day all.
What about a hybrid solution for Geelong punters?
Able to use the overhead to Werribee, then diesel to Waurn Ponds?
I'm sure that in this age of modern engineering that type of train would be feasible.
Just throwing it out there!
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

G'day all.
What about a hybrid solution for Geelong punters?
Able to use the overhead to Werribee, then diesel to Waurn Ponds?
I'm sure that in this age of modern engineering that type of train would be feasible.
Just throwing it out there!
damooops
This has been discussed before, and yes, it is certainly feasible and becoming a common technology elsewhere, but I'm not quite clear on what its purpose in this application would be. The VLos have excellent acceleration as we know, so that is not a problem. The issue is with interior configuration - ie is this a country train or a metro service or something different - and service levels/configurations to different points along the line. I think the propulsion system is largely an afterthought.
  justarider Chief Commissioner

Location: Free at last, free at last
G'day all.
What about a hybrid solution for Geelong punters?
Able to use the overhead to Werribee, then diesel to Waurn Ponds?
I'm sure that in this age of modern engineering that type of train would be feasible.
Just throwing it out there!
This has been discussed before, and yes, it is certainly feasible and becoming a common technology elsewhere, but I'm not quite clear on what its purpose in this application would be. The VLos have excellent acceleration as we know, so that is not a problem. The issue is with interior configuration - ie is this a country train or a metro service or something different - and service levels/configurations to different points along the line. I think the propulsion system is largely an afterthought.
potatoinmymouth
Jeroen Weimar is merely stating the obvious to kill of somebody's mischievous brain fart.

@PIMM, you hit the really important point in all this nonsense.

Where is the boundary between country /metro ?

There are as you say lots of technology, motor unit, metro , tube and all sort of hybrids. Doesn't really answer.

The interior is a more human problem. How long can a passenger last on the train without a toilet break.

In my young, fit and occasional sober days, Geelong to Melbourne not a problem.
Now old and leaky, accompanying pregnant daughter it's a lot more difficult.
Any form of metro train, even the new wiz bang HCMT, is not going to work.

The current Metro limits are also near the human limit. Melton & Wyndham Vale maybe a stretch.
Until Metro run at an average speed approx 200kph, not going to change that limit.

Hence VLos have their purpose.
Via Werribee or Sunshine doesn't really matter, but a $squillion spent for RRL suggests the latter is preferred.

cheers
John
  TOQ-1 Deputy Commissioner

Location: Power Trainger
The difference again with a HCMT is if it is running at a high frequency, you can hop off at any premium station, use the facilities there, and another train will be at the platform again by the time you are done. A regional line you can't do that.

More than toilets, I think the issue is with standing for long periods at high speeds. Vlocities currently are terrible for crush conditions with no overhead handholds down the aisles, and holding on to the seat rests isn't as effective. Going around the curves between Bacchus Marsh and Ballan are not pleasant experiences standing, at speed, with people leaning into you.
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

Good call CEO.  To remove seats on long distance services to Geelong and Beyond is not a good idea.  When are the new trains arriving to provide additional capacity?

If they did remove the seats then these trains would presumably be used in non peak times and provide less seats.

The answer is more frequent services thereby reducing overcrowding.

V/Line CEO Jeroen Weimar takes standing only high capacity trains off the table
bevans
The answer is not more frequent trains at all as RRL is at capacity now . The answer is longer trains in that  :

1. Reform the H car fleet into 7 x7 car sets = 49 cars and 1 x 6 car LH  set = 55 cars
2. Buy 44  trailer cars and insert them into 44 x existing 3 car sets . Then one can run VLocity consists of 3 cars  (222pax),
4 cars (312pax), 6 cars (444 pax), 7 cars (534 pax), or 8 cars  ( 624pax.) Not rocket science but both TfV and VLP still stubbornly refuse to have 4 car VL commuter sets .  BUT  we are to get 4 car Inter City VL sets with catering etc . according to Union Newsletters.
  jakar Assistant Commissioner

Location: Melbourne
Not rocket science but both TfV and VLP still stubbornly refuse to have 4 car VL commuter sets .
Kuldalai
When everything (yards, platforms, signalling etc) are setup for 3 or 6 cars its not as simple as it may seem to add another car.
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

Not rocket science but both TfV and VLP still stubbornly refuse to have 4 car VL commuter sets .
When everything (yards, platforms, signalling etc) are setup for 3 or 6 cars its not as simple as it may seem to add another car.
jakar
Distinct failure by Government , Minister. multiple tarnsport bureaucracies and VLP to plan for the future .  We dont learn from the past.  N sets originally 3 then 4 then 5 cars .  H sets originally 3, then 4, then 5 and 6 cars .  We have run 7 cars VL on Geelong pre RRL so VLP  go back and lock themselves into 3 or 6 cars - moronic. Reality is Geelong can run 7 car VL now 4+3 and 4 + 4 = 8 with a few platform extensions .  Waurn Ponds maintenance / stabling announced 2015 after 3 yaers still not a sod turned . Abject failure by Governemnt, transport bureacracies and VLP to force the issue .  If people were doing their job properly Waurn Ponds would be open by now and set up to maintain VL consists of both 3 & 4 cars . Not rocket science, longer trains are the answer NOT more trains, cheaper capex and opex ; but everyone is blissfully asleep at the wheel - secure in their Met train mentality of 3, 6 or 9 car V/Locity when 9 cars would be very expensive to run, and be difficult re platforms, lx signalling issues .  e:g: Outside Sxs only Ballarat # 1 can hold a 9 car VL .
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

Not disagreeing, @kuldalai , but if you were going to go along the Geelong line and do “a few platform extensions” surely real forward thinking would be just to go for 9 carriages. Footscray is already long enough and as far as I can think there are no serious challenges to do the works at any station along the line.

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