Not left enough for the collective.

What other programs nationally on the ABC have suffered the same incredible vandalism we have seen with Red Symmons?

The Checkout was dumped, despite regularly outperforming the commercial networks in its timeslot and providing informative programming well within the remit of the ABC's charter.

Probably half the reason it was dumped - "outperforming the commercial networks"...

I'm a bit mixed in my thoughts about the ABC:
- It's more balanced than Fairfax (too left-wing), the Guardian (too Communist), SBS (too PC) & Murdoch (too populist right-wing).
- I enjoy its informative stuff (including some of the stuff on RN)
- But occasionally cringe-worthy and stupid (the slanderous and defamatory Tonightly program - gladly axed)
- Overpaid presenters ("some are more equal than others")

Hello All,

with respect , "Carnot" , has no idea as to the broad political slant of Australia's media.

The "Guardian" is in no way a Communist newspaper, neither is the Fairfax Press ( The Age / SMH etc ) a left wing paper.

The Socialist Alternative's "Red Flag" and "Marxist left Review" are both Marxist-Leninist newspapers , which therefore makes the "Guardian" a centrist newspaper , as is the ABC and SBS ( which was the Federal Parliament's intention ), therefore the Fairfax Press is right of centre , which puts the Murdoch media to the right of Fairfax.

Also bear in mind we do not have a newspaper that is to the left of the "Guardian" and also to the right of "Red Flag". We also have not had an ALP aligned radio station since the demise of  2KY and 3KZ as Trade Union / ALP enterprises.

The fact that one may think the Fairfax Press is left wing does not mean that it is so, the more likely interpretation is that people who think it is, are far more right wing than they care to admit.

Regards, Radioman

The fact that one may think the Fairfax Press is left wing does not mean that it is so, the more likely interpretation is that people who think it is, are far more right wing than they care to admit.

Regards, Radioman

Media bias is, like so many things in our lives, in the eye of the beholder.

I suspect the truth lies somewhere in between your view and Carnot's (neither of which I agree with BTW)

They are all pushing one agenda or another, the solution is to read / watch / listen widely and then make up your own mind.

BG

They are all pushing one agenda or another, the solution is to read / watch / listen widely and then make up your own mind.

And that SHOULD be the end of the conversation.

I'm a bit mixed in my thoughts about the ABC:
- It's more balanced than Fairfax (too left-wing), the Guardian (too Communist), SBS (too PC) & Murdoch (too populist right-wing).
- I enjoy its informative stuff (including some of the stuff on RN)
- But occasionally cringe-worthy and stupid (the slanderous and defamatory Tonightly program - gladly axed)
- Overpaid presenters ("some are more equal than others")

Hello All,

with respect , " Justapassenger" (should read Carnot), has no idea as to the broad political slant of Australia's media.

FYI, your reply was actually to Carnot. Please edit

I made no political comment in either of my posts on this thread.

Yes, Justapassenger didn't make the comment about the political leanings of various media outlets. I did.

Reply threads easily get very confusing (and randomly merged) on this forum.

Anyway, I was embellishing things a bit in that previous post to make a point.  As for the Guardian - I don't mind reading it since it often contains some decent investigative journalism (like the ABC). But its bias is obvious in many of the opinion pieces since they demonstrate a fair bit of echo-chamber group-think.

That's what the ABC needs to avoid, but I see that happening too within their "collective".  And if rural based ABC outposts are sacrificed to maintain the big urban ones, than that's going to make it worse.

Everyone has an opinion about what the ABC should be. Some think it should be more pro-business. Others more targeted at rural communities. Others more serious and sober in its online presence. But one thing that no one wants the ABC to be is a propaganda organ for the Federal government.

That is why the email in which ABC chairman Justin Milne demanded ABC managing director Michelle Guthrie sack an ABC journalist for an unfavourable political story is a threat to democratic debate for which Mr Milne must either offer an explanation or resign.
The Herald revealed on Tuesday that Mr Milne had written an email to ABC managing director Michelle Guthrie telling her to "get rid of" Emma Alberici, ABC chief economic correspondent, for an article which cast doubt on the benefits of the Federal government's now abandoned plan for corporate tax cuts.


ABC chair Justin Milne, former ABC managing director Michelle Guthrie and former Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull.
The problem is that under the ABC's charter Mr Milne was obliged to maintain the corporation's "independence and integrity".
Issuing such a direct order to the managing director is arguably already a threat to the charter because it undermines the barrier between a board appointed by the government and a strong managing director appointed for a fixed term.

But the real issue is that Mr Milne, who is a close friend of then prime minister Malcolm Turnbull, wanted Ms Guthrie to sack a journalist for a story the government disliked.

Mr Milne said on Tuesday he was ensuring ABC "content was of the highest standards". Certainly the board has a legal duty to ensure the ABC is "accurate and impartial according to the recognised standards of objective journalism". Ms Alberici's story contained some factual errors and was arguably tendentious.

The point about the wording of the email, however, was that Mr Milne was not concerned about objective journalism but pleasing the government. "They (the government) hate her," Mr Milne said. His agenda appears to have been to head off some more dramatic attack on the ABC. "We need to save the ABC not Emma," Mr Milne wrote.

If Mr Milne had been concerned about journalism, rather than pursuing Ms Alberici, he should have taken into account that the article had been vetted by ABC editors, who shared responsibility, and that the article was quickly revised to correct some errors.

Ms Guthrie refused to sack Ms Alberici and, now that she herself has been got rid of, the email raises the suspicion that she was sacked at least for her lack of enthusiasm for the role of hitman executing the government's vendettas.


That is likely only part of the reason for her dismissal. As a former Google executive with little experience of Australian politics or media, Ms Guthrie made a lot of enemies including inside the ABC where she was seen as a poor advocate for the institution. But politics clearly played a part.

Politicians do have an important role to play in running the ABC through their power to appoint the board and set a budget.

But neither the board or the government should be in the business of punishing staff for individual news stories. Going forward, the ABC board should ensure it selects a replacement for Ms Guthrie who understands this and has the authority to fight for the ABC charter. It is hard to see however how any plausible candidate could accept working with the current compromised chairman.

Source: The Age

Everyone has an opinion about what the ABC should be. Some think it should be more pro-business. Others more targeted at rural communities. Others more serious and sober in its online presence. But one thing that no one wants the ABC to be is a propaganda organ for the Federal government.

That is why the email in which ABC chairman Justin Milne demanded ABC managing director Michelle Guthrie sack an ABC journalist for an unfavourable political story is a threat to democratic debate for which Mr Milne must either offer an explanation or resign.
The Herald revealed on Tuesday that Mr Milne had written an email to ABC managing director Michelle Guthrie telling her to "get rid of" Emma Alberici, ABC chief economic correspondent, for an article which cast doubt on the benefits of the Federal government's now abandoned plan for corporate tax cuts.

Source: The Age

The chairman of the ABC should resign immediately as in today as his position I believe is untenable.  Journalists need the ability to write and their material should not be screened or influenced by the government.

He must immediate resign no question.

He is biased and his actions were not in the best interests of the corporation.

I'm a bit mixed in my thoughts about the ABC:
- It's more balanced than Fairfax (too left-wing), the Guardian (too Communist), SBS (too PC) & Murdoch (too populist right-wing).
- I enjoy its informative stuff (including some of the stuff on RN)
- But occasionally cringe-worthy and stupid (the slanderous and defamatory Tonightly program - gladly axed)
- Overpaid presenters ("some are more equal than others")

Hello All,

with respect , " Justapassenger" (should read Carnot), has no idea as to the broad political slant of Australia's media.

FYI, your reply was actually to Carnot. Please edit

I made no political comment in either of my posts on this thread.

Hello All,

my apologies to "Justapassenger" my reference was to the wrong contributor , i will attempt to amend the posting.

Posting has now been amended to read "Carnot" . My comments still stand though.

In relation to the ABC, in my view it gets far too much criticism for alleged left wing bias ,more so from the right in its various flavours ( cannot find the word i am after ! ) The ABC generally  reports , whereas the shock jocks comment, and justify their outrageous , and frequently ( sometimes even deliberately ) are factually wrong , but justify this on the basis of their commentary and opinion , as if facts are irrelevant .

Facts are not irrelevant , they are important in trying to understand an issue , the attitude of "never let the facts ruin a good story"  is part of the reason for the current disillusion with politics.

in this regard i must admit to being quite happy that a certain Sydney loudmouth lost a defamation case the other week , and the Judge's comments relating to that certain loudmouth running a 2 year campaign against a family that engineering experts
( you know, those people who spend years in getting highly technical qualifications and then working on real problems requiring real solutions , and whom we all ultimately rely on to ensure that engineered solutions are safe and work ) had found were not at fault ( an inconvenient fact ) is indicative of the problem that ignorant loudmouth commentators create..

Regards, Radioman

In all honesty though - was Guthrie pushed out because she was formerly employed by the Murdoch empire?  ie Fell foul of the 'luvvies'?

I resent you calling persons such as myself luvvies just because we support the ABC. Must make you a bogan.

In all honesty though - was Guthrie pushed out because she was formerly employed by the Murdoch empire?  ie Fell foul of the 'luvvies'?

Oh rubbish!

Indeed.

If that was an issue, she would never have been appointed in the first place.

Why was she appointed in the first place? Absolutely no media experience whatsoever.

It seems clear to me based on the events of today she was pushed because she was not about to be bullied by Turnbull. Instead she was pressured by the Chairman presumably at the request of Turnbull.  As I said, he must immediately go.

How would feel about Marxists Bagging the PC's? (Hint: the Class struggle is more important than Identity politics)

Anyway, The ABC has Long lost its mainstream Audience. The 12+ and under 35s I am referring to. Most of that age group IIRC that watched the ABC, tuned to ABC 2 for the Louis Theroux Doco's And The Now Defunct Good Game (Guess why). The Abc is generally Failing to reach the youth market as the majority of people in that age group don't give 2 smegs for politics and Dr Who.

Sounds like a Class struggle has been raging at the ABC of late...   There was much gnashing of teeth with Germaine Greer making an appearance on QandA last week (and I no longer watch that show anymore because of Tony Jones - ugh)

Who would you prefer Hadley or Jones or god forgive that South African fascist windbag on Sky?

What other programs nationally on the ABC have suffered the same incredible vandalism we have seen with Red Symmons?

The Checkout was dumped, despite regularly outperforming the commercial networks in its timeslot and providing informative programming well within the remit of the ABC's charter.

Probably half the reason it was dumped - "outperforming the commercial networks"...

I'm a bit mixed in my thoughts about the ABC:
- It's more balanced than Fairfax (too left-wing), the Guardian (too Communist), SBS (too PC) & Murdoch (too populist right-wing).
- I enjoy its informative stuff (including some of the stuff on RN)
- But occasionally cringe-worthy and stupid (the slanderous and defamatory Tonightly program - gladly axed)
- Overpaid presenters ("some are more equal than others")

Hello All,

with respect , "Carnot" , has no idea as to the broad political slant of Australia's media.

The "Guardian" is in no way a Communist newspaper, neither is the Fairfax Press ( The Age / SMH etc ) a left wing paper.

The Socialist Alternative's "Red Flag" and "Marxist left Review" are both Marxist-Leninist newspapers , which therefore makes the "Guardian" a centrist newspaper , as is the ABC and SBS ( which was the Federal Parliament's intention ), therefore the Fairfax Press is right of centre , which puts the Murdoch media to the right of Fairfax.

Also bear in mind we do not have a newspaper that is to the left of the "Guardian" and also to the right of "Red Flag". We also have not had an ALP aligned radio station since the demise of  2KY and 3KZ as Trade Union / ALP enterprises.

The fact that one may think the Fairfax Press is left wing does not mean that it is so, the more likely interpretation is that people who think it is, are far more right wing than they care to admit.

Regards, Radioman

Radioman hit the nail on the head with his very thoughtful reply.

How would feel about Marxists Bagging the PC's? (Hint: the Class struggle is more important than Identity politics)

Anyway, The ABC has Long lost its mainstream Audience. The 12+ and under 35s I am referring to. Most of that age group IIRC that watched the ABC, tuned to ABC 2 for the Louis Theroux Doco's And The Now Defunct Good Game (Guess why). The Abc is generally Failing to reach the youth market as the majority of people in that age group don't give 2 smegs for politics and Dr Who.

Sounds like a Class struggle has been raging at the ABC of late...   There was much gnashing of teeth with Germaine Greer making an appearance on QandA last week (and I no longer watch that show anymore because of Tony Jones - ugh)

Who would you prefer Hadley or Jones or god forgive that South African fascist windbag on Sky?

I can't stand those 'pundits' either most of the time.  But if the right are pushed aside by much of the media, they'll pop up somewhere else and be weaponized in their rhetoric.  Reactionaries and a collapse of civil dialogue everywhere....

Anyway, Milne is GONE:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-09-27/abc-chairman-justin-milne-resigns/10311472

The man is a disgrace.

Please permit me to say one last thing about him, based on my experience in corporate Australia and in doing so experiencing such disgraceful corruption in this country including at the higher levels at ASIC, it is my view the government (who thinks we are so stupid) wanted to control the ABC the same way Fairfax media and News are controlled.

Believe me, it is happening.  I know journalists I have been working with over time who have been threatened to stop writing about corruption in this country.

Why has the whistleblower legislation (2018) not yet been passed in parliament which would provide the ability for other people in the ABC to make a protected disclosure on what is really going on there.

Not left enough for the collective.

Bollocks.

Dumb comment considering most of the ABC Board are a little to the right of Ghengis Khan.

Anyway, Milne is GONE:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-09-27/abc-chairman-justin-milne-resigns/10311472

And the Ultimo Echochamber has gone into overdrive. Pretty much the entire 30 minutes of The World Today was dedicated to the ABC talking about itself and Faino had a pretty good crack at it from what I hear.

BG

Anyway, Milne is GONE:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-09-27/abc-chairman-justin-milne-resigns/10311472

And the Ultimo Echochamber has gone into overdrive. Pretty much the entire 30 minutes of The World Today was dedicated to the ABC talking about itself and Faino had a pretty good crack at it from what I hear.

BG

They really do have an over-inflated view of themselves.  A bunch of virtue-signalling narcissists they are....

The man is a disgrace.

Please permit me to say one last thing about him, based on my experience in corporate Australia and in doing so experiencing such disgraceful corruption in this country including at the higher levels at ASIC, it is my view the government (who thinks we are so stupid) wanted to control the ABC the same way Fairfax media and News are controlled.

Believe me, it is happening.  I know journalists I have been working with over time who have been threatened to stop writing about corruption in this country.

Why has the whistleblower legislation (2018) not yet been passed in parliament which would provide the ability for other people in the ABC to make a protected disclosure on what is really going on there.

Further information:

http://www.nortonrosefulbright.com/knowledge/publications/158696/new-whistleblower-protection-laws-hit-parliament-in-australia

and

https://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Business/Committees/Senate/Economics/WhistleblowerBill2017/Report/d03

and

https://rex.centrealliance.org.au/media/releases/whistleblower-bill-needs-strengthening/

and

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=senator+rex+patrick+whistleblower&oq=senator+rex+patrick+whistleblower&aqs=chrome..69i57.9514j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Anyway, Milne is GONE:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-09-27/abc-chairman-justin-milne-resigns/10311472

And the Ultimo Echochamber has gone into overdrive. Pretty much the entire 30 minutes of The World Today was dedicated to the ABC talking about itself and Faino had a pretty good crack at it from what I hear.

BG

They really do have an over-inflated view of themselves.  A bunch of virtue-signalling narcissists they are....

If you speaking of narcissists you cannot go past that bunch of right wing wind bags that inhabit 2GB and Sky. I don't think you can recognise quality when you see it. I was speaking to an American guy who works for the ABC Washington DC bureau in a technical role and he is of the opinion the ABC (not the US one) is one of the finest broadcasters in the world. He also wished the USA had comparable broadcaster. This guy was no left wing luvvie as you like calling them.

Anyway, Milne is GONE:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-09-27/abc-chairman-justin-milne-resigns/10311472

And the Ultimo Echochamber has gone into overdrive. Pretty much the entire 30 minutes of The World Today was dedicated to the ABC talking about itself and Faino had a pretty good crack at it from what I hear.

BG

They really do have an over-inflated view of themselves.  A bunch of virtue-signalling narcissists they are....

If you speaking of narcissists you cannot go past that bunch of right wing wind bags that inhabit 2GB and Sky. I don't think you can recognise quality when you see it. I was speaking to an American guy who works for the ABC Washington DC bureau in a technical role and he is of the opinion the ABC (not the US one) is one of the finest broadcasters in the world. He also wished the USA had comparable broadcaster. This guy was no left wing luvvie as you like calling them.

Hold your horses....  I said that the ABC were more balanced than most of the media.  And most of the media, including the ABC, have an over-inflated view of themselves.  Sensitive much.

As for the USA - they do have PBS and NPR, although their independence can be skewed by their private donors (around 60% of PBS revenue. and even more of NPR's).

Remember it was a conservative, Joseph Lyons, who was PM when the ABC was formed.  And Sir Robert Menzies made sure it was on the telly in 1956...

Just switched off the radio and flicked on the Telly in time for American Pickers re-runs.

The ABC has been talking about itself almost non stop since I tuned in at midday, you would think there was nothing else going on in the world.

They even called Raph Epstein who is on holidays to get his view on the sackings.

And they wonder why they are losing listeners. Yawn.

BG

All this scandal about the CEO and the Chairman. You would almost think that they run the place.

In fact, it’s the ABC Staff Union that runs the place.