1 hour delay of the fruity into Melbourne today https://www.railpage.com.au/railcams/bunbury-street/photo/30946290098 anyone know why congestion again?

Waiting for 6MC2 to Griffith to vacate the pad roads at Appleton Dock.

Freight rail congestion. What a nice problem to have....

X50 has been on the fruity for several weeks now, hardly missing a run.   Must be going along alright.   The G/BL/81s on either side of it keep swapping out.

X50 has been on the fruity for several weeks now, hardly missing a run.   Must be going along alright.   The G/BL/81s on either side of it keep swapping out.

X48 replaced it last night .

8163-X48-G520 now the motive power with loading dropping to as low as 33 wagons.  It was around 60 on BG.

8163-X48-G520 now the motive power with loading dropping to as low as 33 wagons.  It was around 60 on BG.

Come on, now bevans, not fudging the figures are you ? The Frutie has been 45 and 60 wagons, since it resumed on standard gauge, as well.

More likely seasonal fluctuations, rather than gauge related.

BigShunter.

Why are they running 2 or 3 different loco classes on this service?  I know the Gs and XRs seem to be packaged together for Victorian running (im assuming they provide a nice level of HP etc).  But why not use a more consistent fleet on the service?  And yes, I know the Gcl and 81cl (as well as the BLcl) are the same more or less) but theyre still just that bit different no?  Or are they really in essence the same?

8163-X48-G520 now the motive power with loading dropping to as low as 33 wagons.  It was around 60 on BG.

Come on, now bevans, not fudging the figures are you ? The Frutie has been 45 and 60 wagons, since it resumed on standard gauge, as well.

More likely seasonal fluctuations, rather than gauge related.

BigShunter.

Hey, I have research this at ghaploop stats and the train is 1/2 the size.

Why are they running 2 or 3 different loco classes on this service?  I know the Gs and XRs seem to be packaged together for Victorian running (im assuming they provide a nice level of HP etc).  But why not use a more consistent fleet on the service?  And yes, I know the Gcl and 81cl (as well as the BLcl) are the same more or less) but theyre still just that bit different no?  Or are they really in essence the same?

Locos are rostered to haul the load at the required speed, taking into account compatibility between classes eg continuous speed ratings. This will be more or less important depending upon locos and the road and may result in load hauling being less than the combined loads for the locos involved.
Back in the days CLs and 4 motor GMs were more compatible than CLs and 6 motor GMs for example. There used to be some lash ups of mainliners and 48 class where in total load hauling the 48 was of very little use.
Loco fuel capacities need also to be taken into account eg the BLs have a far greater range than 81s and Gs and, as such, always seem wasted to me on the Long Island steel trains.
Some trains appear overpowered but one cannot tell what may be offline but be required for return loading.

Why the drop in traffic?

No Petroleum

No Cement

No LCL (which was quite popular in Mildura)

No lumber products

Limited places to load containers and other freight now with so much pulled out by Victrack.

It has all gone to road.

8163-X48-G520 now the motive power with loading dropping to as low as 33 wagons.  It was around 60 on BG.

Come on, now bevans, not fudging the figures are you ? The Frutie has been 45 and 60 wagons, since it resumed on standard gauge, as well.

More likely seasonal fluctuations, rather than gauge related.

BigShunter.

Hey, I have research this at ghaploop stats and the train is 1/2 the size.

A look several posts back in this thread will reveal some Greensleeves post SG Videos with about 60 wagons on the "Fruitie".

Why the drop in traffic?

No Petroleum

No Cement

No LCL (which was quite popular in Mildura)

No lumber products

Limited places to load containers and other freight now with so much pulled out by Victrack.

It has all gone to road.

1: Who owned the fuel loading points on rail caused this

2: Customers choice. And it's still in containers from memory.

3: Neither here nor there. It's a little bit of a faf

4: For some reason I dont recall the Mildura line being big on lumber products

PN killed the oil into Mildura when they were forced to change shunting practices. Then again PN have killed most traffic under them except for containers.

Mildura has a building boom for years. I never saw building products talked about on trains.

PN Mildura has a very narrow focus for freight.

PN have not developed any new marked out of Mildura.

After SG there is almost nothing left in infrastructure there. The current loading area is controlled by the loading company not open.

I noted even road 2 has been removed in Mildura Yard so there is only a platform road left at Mildura.  NO way to cross or run anything around there. Bye Bye pass services from other groups.

8163-X48-G520 now the motive power with loading dropping to as low as 33 wagons.  It was around 60 on BG.

Come on, now bevans, not fudging the figures are you ? The Frutie has been 45 and 60 wagons, since it resumed on standard gauge, as well.

More likely seasonal fluctuations, rather than gauge related.

BigShunter.

Hey, I have research this at ghaploop stats and the train is 1/2 the size.

The BG fruity loaded at Manangatang was consistently 30 wagons 12 months ago in Oct 2017.  It'll pick up again as the stone fruit season kicks in during Summer.

1: Who owned the fuel loading points on rail caused this

2: Customers choice. And it's still in containers from memory.

3: Neither here nor there. It's a little bit of a faf

4: For some reason I dont recall the Mildura line being big on lumber products

1; exactly, as discussed numerous times on RP rail is not suited to modern short or medium haul fuel business and to comply with modern standards a new fuel loading point would cost a fortune, you can't just spill it into the dirt and cover it with sawdust anymore, the EPA will close you down.

2; yes, plenty of tanktainers head north on the train to Mildura, no idea what is in them but  Cement in tanktainers already goes to Maroopna and on the Qube service Appleton > Maldon so it probably is or certainly can go on the Fruity

3; yep, LCL is like fuel, not suited to short or medium haul by Rail, SCT are really the only ones doing it in a major way in Aus

4; Mallee Roots maybe but that business is finished along with pretty much all of the hardwood harvesting along the Murray, certainly not enough of it coming out of the region to warrant rail haulage.

With the SG now open to Mildura I am sure the likes of SSR are looking at what is avl up there but don't expect anyone to go chasing traffic that is either not there or not viable for rail.

BG

PN killed the oil into Mildura when they were forced to change shunting practices. Then again PN have killed most traffic under them except for containers.

Mildura has a building boom for years. I never saw building products talked about on trains.

PN Mildura has a very narrow focus for freight.

PN have not developed any new marked out of Mildura.

After SG there is almost nothing left in infrastructure there. The current loading area is controlled by the loading company not open.

As far as I can tell, PN is more like a hook and pull operator and relies more on other freight amalgamators to bring rail worthy volumes to it (eg LINX, Toll etc).  the Mildura train is probably filled by and large by Wakefields.  So it isnt necessarily PN not developing those markets (as they are not in the business of doing so) but the interface between PN and forwarders being somewhat less than supportive of rail volumes IMO.

With the SG now open to Mildura I am sure the likes of SSR are looking at what is avl up there but don't expect anyone to go chasing traffic that is either not there or not viable for rail.

BG

I think there are opportunities but we need to understand what alternatives there are to Wakefields up there?  SCT would be my best bet for a decent service, with QUBE as a (distant) second place.  If they can get their own loading point or work with an existing carrier up there (I assume they would buy one of them rather than set up their own though to be honest) they could offer an interesting service from the region with connections across to Sydney and Brisbane (maybe Perth but that probably roads to Adelaide instead)

Let's assume GTS (who have over 70 b-double trucks) who are based in Mildura want to use rail, then how would they do it?

Approach whom?

Their yard (from google maps) is near the main line so they would need some sidings.

Would they be the company to ask or would customers deal directly with a rail operator?  it is all too hard.

This is the complicated part.

GTS (or Moneghans, or Booths or anyone up there) need to:

1. Find a rail operator that can meet their needs (which if it is more than port exports might be a challenge unless you can offer a more integrated service like SCT could)

2. Make a case to the Vic Government that they need an investment in sidings etc.  Which the Vic Government is likely going to say to the operator that you pay for it rather than recognise some of the benefits that it would bring (eg lower congestion, environmental and road maintenance costs)

and

3. Repositioning customers to work with rail instead of road (eg container loading specifications, timing of pickup/delivery etc)

All of these things are complicated and the management time spent on doing them may be better off spent elsewhere.  Also, this is only going to happen when it is profitable to do so.  For various reasons (aside from first/last mile issues) it may not.  Eg if the operator has a new truck fleet they cant transition out of, or if they have specialised vehicles etc.  Though i do note that finding truck drivers is a problem for trucking firms and this would alleviate that somewhat.

New traffic can never be profitable if it involves additional infrastructure as someone (ultimately the customer) must pay for it.

The foregoing means that only those with existing infrastructure, terminal and suitable operations can bid for it.

By the time you road haul from your plant/depot/farm to rail and from rail at destination to wherever you might as well leave it on road throughout unless you have sufficiency of scale or bulk traffic of some sort not suited to road.

The only hope for rail in these circumstances is to have sufficient scale to overcome the above and many other obstacles that will be put in your way otherwise your only hope is to build on existing traffics carried by a current operator.

In summary, given the size of Victoria, amount of potential traffic, red tape at all levels plus the inevitable NIMBYs etc it is likely to be all too hard.

New traffic can never be profitable if it involves additional infrastructure as someone (ultimately the customer) must pay for it.

The foregoing means that only those with existing infrastructure, terminal and suitable operations can bid for it.

I disagree with this.  If an operator had to build it all then yes id agree, but if it was the case of building some sidings and using the existing track (eg Mildura to Port) then it may well stack up.  How did the original operators get to be where they are?  Fletchers and Crawfords built theirs out of successful trucking businesses.  And Crawfords are in the process (and I hope theyre successful) in doing it again at Werris Creek).  And NSW did recognise the benefits of this with the Fixing Country Rail program, which Victoria needs to embrace.  

Note that the Federal Government has embraced the functionality of the FCR program in some of their infrastructure investment programs recently.  Victoria cant be too far behind.  VLine has a freight manager now so maybe the message will start coming through that channel?

We are getting away from the topic of this thread, but anyway.....so, who paid for the SCT track and mainline connections etc at Barnawatha North?

My uneducated bet would be SCT.

The olden days have passed but some still live for them (yes, parts of the olden days were much better), but you wont get back to the old ways in that the infrastructure owner suddenly invests in a few freight loading/unloading yards and wait for the business to show up. Just remember that in the 'olden days' the respective Government Railway owned the whole lot (Track, Locomotives, Wagons, Goods Yard) and basically had a monopoly.

Apart from the track and associated signalling etc, the rest has since been privatised, so when "Joe Bloggs Pty Ltd" suddenly finds that they have 50 Containers a week of "Stuff" to move to distant place, they go and find someone to do things on their behalf. That's where Freight Forwarders and Logistics Companies come in. They organise to get your box of "Stuff" to its destination and will tell you where and when to deliver it and what paperwork you need to supply.

As to Merbein, when I passed there on my recent Safari, I did wonder just how they manage to make up a train (or divide it up after arrival) without blocking off the level crossings for lengthy periods as there are Wakefields loops on either side of the Calder Highway one - or perhaps the locals have gotten used to detours to avoid the blocked one(s).

9702 down to 20 wagons today

New traffic can never be profitable if it involves additional infrastructure as someone (ultimately the customer) must pay for it.

The foregoing means that only those with existing infrastructure, terminal and suitable operations can bid for it.

I disagree with this.  If an operator had to build it all then yes id agree, but if it was the case of building some sidings and using the existing track (eg Mildura to Port) then it may well stack up.  How did the original operators get to be where they are?  Fletchers and Crawfords built theirs out of successful trucking businesses.  And Crawfords are in the process (and I hope theyre successful) in doing it again at Werris Creek).  And NSW did recognise the benefits of this with the Fixing Country Rail program, which Victoria needs to embrace.  

Note that the Federal Government has embraced the functionality of the FCR program in some of their infrastructure investment programs recently.  Victoria cant be too far behind.  VLine has a freight manager now so maybe the message will start coming through that channel?

Crawfords and Fletchers are in NSW where at least some infrastructure remained. In Victoria there is virtually nothing upon which to build eg the Ararat shambles.

Someone send this info to the media/Libs and get them to ask some questions.

I havent eaten popcorn for a while.....