Melbourne Metro Rail Project Revived

 
Topic moved from News by bevans on 16 Feb 2015 17:54
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
Doesn't explain the need for Hawksburn, although that could be PR-speak, as in duplicating the Avon River bridge.
kitchgp
Agreed, sorry, I haven't looked into Hawksburn. It could well be that they are going to run short services as mentioned above or reverse some peak hour services from SBY at Hawksburn for the same peak loading reasons. Will it get built or won't it? Time will tell.

BG

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  justarider Deputy Commissioner

Location: Bored at home
Doesn't explain the need for Hawksburn, although that could be PR-speak, as in duplicating the Avon River bridge.
Agreed, sorry, I haven't looked into Hawksburn. It could well be that they are going to run short services as mentioned above or reverse some peak hour services from SBY at Hawksburn for the same peak loading reasons. Will it get built or won't it? Time will tell.

BG
BrentonGolding
BG,  can take it as read that Hawksburn will happen.
The announcement went out of it's way to include that statement. Something to tick off as "done" with very little cost.

PS: did you get to try the coffee? Push-button machine mmmm yumm.

cheers
John
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

As the premise is that there are more passengers from the East than the West it only requires one turnback location, ie West Footscray.  

The release raises more questions than it answers. There is no mention of another platform being added at Hawksburn nor which set of lines would be used, Frankston, Dandenong or both. Turning back trains during peak-hour without an extra platform doesn’t seem practical as it reduces capacity (Caulfield already has the ability). Adding another platform would be expensive and could also reduce capacity through at-grade crossings arriving at or departing the platform. The overall question seems to be ‘Why Hawksburn?’.

Perhaps it has something to do with minimising the disruption from defective trains.
  Lockie91 Chief Train Controller

Could they not run them out to Caulfield? Their would be room out there to add one additional platform for short starters. MM1 trains would run express from ANZAC to Caulfield anyway. Why add any additional stop at Hawksburn just for a few short starters in the peaks? All a little strange IMO.
  justarider Deputy Commissioner

Location: Bored at home
Could they not run them out to Caulfield? Their would be room out there to add one additional platform for short starters. MM1 trains would run express from ANZAC to Caulfield anyway. Why add any additional stop at Hawksburn just for a few short starters in the peaks? All a little strange IMO.
Lockie91
have a read back thru the thread Lockie. Turn backs are not for the passengers, they are for positioning trains where they need to be.

cheers
John
  Lockie91 Chief Train Controller

Could they not run them out to Caulfield? Their would be room out there to add one additional platform for short starters. MM1 trains would run express from ANZAC to Caulfield anyway. Why add any additional stop at Hawksburn just for a few short starters in the peaks? All a little strange IMO.
have a read back thru the thread Lockie. Turn backs are not for the passengers, they are for positioning trains where they need to be.

cheers
John
justarider
They are for passengers, balancing loading and frequency.

If a train is running from Sunbury it will be an active service, it will have to terminate somewhere.

This is what will be happening at West Footscray, services from Dandenong will terminate here before returning back to Dandenong.  Hence the phrase "Turn back" and "Short Starters"

Will Hawksburn be purely for operational requirements, Defective Trains and timetable recovery?
  justarider Deputy Commissioner

Location: Bored at home
Could they not run them out to Caulfield? Their would be room out there to add one additional platform for short starters. MM1 trains would run express from ANZAC to Caulfield anyway. Why add any additional stop at Hawksburn just for a few short starters in the peaks? All a little strange IMO.
have a read back thru the thread Lockie. Turn backs are not for the passengers, they are for positioning trains where they need to be.

cheers
John
They are for passengers, balancing loading and frequency.

If a train is running from Sunbury it will be an active service, it will have to terminate somewhere.

This is what will be happening at West Footscray, services from Dandenong will terminate here before returning back to Dandenong.  Hence the phrase "Turn back" and "Short Starters"

Will Hawksburn be purely for operational requirements, Defective Trains and timetable recovery?
Lockie91
sorry Lockie you misunderstood my message.
Of course there will be passengers on the train until it turns.
My meaning was that where the train turns is not for the passengers benefit. but for "loading and frequency" aka positioning.

as I said, read back thru the thread can be enlightening.

cheers
John
  LeroyW Junior Train Controller

Location: Awaiting MM2
Could they not run them out to Caulfield? Their would be room out there to add one additional platform for short starters. MM1 trains would run express from ANZAC to Caulfield anyway. Why add any additional stop at Hawksburn just for a few short starters in the peaks? All a little strange IMO.
Lockie91

I actually think the main usage won't be for short starters, but for short termination near the end of peak, both AM and PM.

Around 9/9:30 in the morning there are a lot of trains arriving in the city but no need to run them back out to the  end for another service. So they'll go through the tunnel and stop at WF/Hawks and then head to wherever they'll be stabled during the day, presumably closer than the end of the line.

In the afternoon they'll become a short starter and head into the tunnel to form a peak service.
  Lockie91 Chief Train Controller

Closest stablling for the HCMTS will be Watergarsens possibly 2 roads or Calder Park 12 roads planned. So I would assume WF will be used to balance the demand from the South East during the peaks. Not to terminate services at the end of the peaks. This should be done at Watergardens.

In the South East closest stabeling to the city is Westall. But no plans have been announced about what reconfiguration it will need. Then The remainder will be our Pakenham East.  

Which again makes the Hawksburn announcement a little interesting.
  stooge spark Chief Train Controller

Location: My House
I don't even think there is a good explanation for the turnback, mostly because there are better options for terminating during peaks. Terminating during disruptions doesn't really work because the station and surronds don't look like they could handle the pax in that event.
Hell, terminating during planned doesn't work either for the same reasons!
  ngarner Assistant Commissioner

Location: Seville
An update to the Metro Tunnel website has removed any mention of a turnback at Hawksburn. It is now being labelled as 'Track enhancements to improve service reliability', whatever that means, but as West Footscray is still labelled as get a 'new turnback and platform' the "average" person (a non politician, anyway) would take it to mean Hawksburn is not getting a turnback.
However, the location is still being circled on the Frankston line. If they were inserting crossovers between the two lines you would expect that they would have done it during the many shutdowns due to elevated rail and LXRA work earlier this year, so I'm going to suggest that's not the answer. But what they do mean is still not clear (to me anyway).

https://metrotunnel.vic.gov.au/about-the-project/news/rail-infrastructure-works-underway


South Kensington station forecourt is going to get a makeover, something I don't recall seeing before. How long before the actual platforms also get improvement works on them?

Neil
  duttonbay Minister for Railways

In the absence of a Metro station at South Yarra, Hawksburn would make a good place for connections between trains the the city loop and trains through the new tunnel. If you could get the trains to stop there...
  Lockie91 Chief Train Controller

Gawd,

For the 100th time on this thread, Pax from Dandenong can change a Caulfield for  South Yarra and the City Loop. Or Town Hall.
  reubstar6 Chief Train Controller

In the absence of a Metro station at South Yarra, Hawksburn would make a good place for connections between trains the the city loop and trains through the new tunnel. If you could get the trains to stop there...
duttonbay

Not really needed. The point of having an interchange at South Yarra is so that there would be a more seamless interchange between the Dandenong and Sandringham lines. But if you don't have an interchange at South Yarra, since the Sandringham line is no longer involved, it doesn't matter if you have an interchange at Hawksburn (or any other MATH stations) so you might as well have it at Caulfield and save stopping at an extra station. I still think that the South Yarra interchange should have been built.
  ngarner Assistant Commissioner

Location: Seville
West Footscray turnback work is intended to begin in the first quarter of 2019 (subject to approval by the Planning Minister).

https://metrotunnel.vic.gov.au/planning/upgrades-to-the-rail-network/west-footscray-station
Neil
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

And subject to it not being descoped by a new Liberal government.

It happened 8 years ago, no reason it won’t happen again.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
Hello, I tried going back through this thread but couldn't find any reference to the length of the platforms - but I'm sure the ones in the tunnels are being constructed for 9-car high capacity sets, is that right?
  ngarner Assistant Commissioner

Location: Seville
Hello, I tried going back through this thread but couldn't find any reference to the length of the platforms - but I'm sure the ones in the tunnels are being constructed for 9-car high capacity sets, is that right?
don_dunstan
Largely correct, except Labor intend to make them 10 car sets (not 9) around the time the Metro is to open. Initial 7 cars sets are to be 160m and 10 car sets 220m based on all the publicised info, so platforms ought to be a bit more than 220m.

Neil
  Lockie91 Chief Train Controller

A lot of equipment and machinery has appeared over the weekend in the MM1 lay down site on the corner of Hobson’s Road and Kensington Road in Kensington. Safety fencing has been installed from the Maribyrnong River down to South Kensington Station. As well as access a track and stairs up the embankment. Service protection works have also been undertaken at West Footscray in preparation for the turn back.

By the looks of the amount of equipment that is ready to go, suggests that some major construction work may be imminent. I know that their is a substantial occupation occurring January 2019 related to MM1.

Lockie
  ngarner Assistant Commissioner

Location: Seville
Based on the Metro Tunnel website they're getting ready to start the decline structure that
will lead to the actual tunnel entrance and, possibly, the actual entrance itself

"A decline structure will be built so trains can enter the new Metro Tunnel.
The tunnel entrance structure is proposed to be built via a 'cut and cover' method, which will see them excavated from the top down and the surface then reinstated over the top of the tunnels.
A construction support site on Hobsons Road and a tunnel boring machine (TBM) retrieval box will also be built to support tunnelling works."

source: https://metrotunnel.vic.gov.au/construction/kensington/western-tunnel-entrance-construction


Neil
  jdekorte Deputy Commissioner

Location: Near Caulfield Station
Major work appears to have kicked off at South Yarra for the construction of the decline structure. The South Yarra Sidings park has been taken over for occupation and has been partly removed for the construction of ramps down to rail level. Bigger vegetation has been cleared from Chapel St around to Toorak Rd. A pilling machine has begun work at Osborne St and temporary singling trunks have been installed to move the cables out of the way. I'm aware some properties adjacent to the cutting and the Williams Rd bridge have been acquired for extra space needed to construction and the widened cutting. I believe over the January break there will be a major occupation in the area with the Williams St bridge to be demolished along with the brick retaining wall on the south side from Chapel St.
  Carnot Minister for Railways

Big news this evening. One of the main engineering contractors for the project has gone bust:

Engineering firm with more than 3,400 staff goes into administration
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-11-22/engineering-firm-rcr-tomlinson-goes-into-administration/10544980
  historian Deputy Commissioner

Big news this evening. One of the main engineering contractors for the project has gone bust:

Engineering firm with more than 3,400 staff goes into administration
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-11-22/engineering-firm-rcr-tomlinson-goes-into-administration/10544980
Carnot

According to Tomlinson's web site, the only Victorian contract they currently have is a refurbishment contract for the three existing underground stations:

https://www.rcrtom.com.au/latest-projects/melbourne-underground-rail-loop-station-upgrades/

There are a number of other contracts listed, but these would appear to be complete (or nearly so).
  ngarner Assistant Commissioner

Location: Seville
As Historian says it's the loop not Metro 1 - (beat me to it there)
Mind you 3,400 jobs at risk is not good news in anyone's books. From what I read cost over runs in solar farms in Qld has done the damage

Neil
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

A technicality, however it's in administration, not yet bankrupt (bust). If it was so strong a few weeks ago, the administrators may be able to do something.

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