New long-distance V/Line rolling stock

 
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

Interesting document, thanks for the link, Woodford.
574M

Oi!

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  vlocity27 Junior Train Controller

Location: Pakenham
These Vlocities will run to Bdale yes??
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

Yes. Will replace the current N + N-Sets and 'short-distance' VLocitys. May not be 160 km/h capable, just 130 km/h. Presumably will return the refreshment service and first class on all services, not just the AM Up and PM Down, ie those currently run by N + N-Set.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
These Vlocities will run to Bdale yes??
vlocity27

No, Bdale is BG.

M.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
Interesting document, thanks for the link, Woodford.

From that document, I see it is not planned to terminate services at Benalla nor Wangaratta. The document mentions

Extra return coach services between Seymour and Wangaratta, and Seymour and Wodonga

Some time back, folks were suggesting that Benalla could be a Vlocity terminus. Hmm, seems that idea has died in the water.

On the subject of modifications to Vlocity, two days ago wongm posted pictures of Vlocity VL77 in platform 2 at SCS for crew familiarisation. Linky
574M

I can see Benalla being a commuter service in a similar vein to Ararat...but not until there is adequate stabling facilities constructed and extra infrastructure built.

Benalla, being by the Hume hwy means any stabled trains are ripe for graffiti by clowns with paint cans.

As the NE was never constructed to the same standard as the remainder of the V/Line network and the patch up jobs over the last 10 years have been merely that...including the latest one, I can see future wet winters with multiple mudholes reappearing because the track has never been constructed to a high standard with adequate sub-base and excellent drainage.

Obviously...only time and wet weather will tell. Smile

Mike.
  woodford Chief Commissioner

Interesting document, thanks for the link, Woodford.

From that document, I see it is not planned to terminate services at Benalla nor Wangaratta. The document mentions

Extra return coach services between Seymour and Wangaratta, and Seymour and Wodonga

Some time back, folks were suggesting that Benalla could be a Vlocity terminus. Hmm, seems that idea has died in the water.

On the subject of modifications to Vlocity, two days ago wongm posted pictures of Vlocity VL77 in platform 2 at SCS for crew familiarisation. Linky

I can see Benalla being a commuter service in a similar vein to Ararat...but not until there is adequate stabling facilities constructed and extra infrastructure built.

Benalla, being by the Hume hwy means any stabled trains are ripe for graffiti by clowns with paint cans.

As the NE was never constructed to the same standard as the remainder of the V/Line network and the patch up jobs over the last 10 years have been merely that...including the latest one, I can see future wet winters with multiple mudholes reappearing because the track has never been constructed to a high standard with adequate sub-base and excellent drainage.

Obviously...only time and wet weather will tell. Smile

Mike.
The Vinelander
Note: I will probably get into trouble for nagging again, or well..........................................

The BG WAS to high standard it just has not been looked after well, if at all for many years. The old SG was built poorly and has also not been look after well for a long time. When track is treated so poorly it takes LARGE sums and I do mean LARGE sums to bring it back up to scratch. Sadly this sort of money is NOT usually availible in Australia. Probably the ONLY reason the feral (federal, I like the mistake) government is giving ARTC these funds is to try an get INDI back.

woodford
  ptvcommuter Train Controller

How much does DG cost when compared to SG or BG ?
And do Trains have to run slower on DG or can VLocity’s for example run 160km/h on DG ?
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

How much does DG cost when compared to SG or BG ? And do Trains have to run slower on DG or can VLocity’s for example run 160km/h on DG ?
ptvcommuter

The additional cost for DG sleepers is negligible. Obviously the additional rail has to be paid for, which is a small additional cost. But the real whack comes in the turnouts, gauge transfers and other such equipment, which are massively more complicated to build and maintain and hence far more expensive.

BG trains on (BG/SG) DG are presently limited to 80km/h, because of the supposed risk of ballast etc becoming trapped between the BG and SG rail, and derailing the BG train. There is talk of this arbitrary speed limit being lifted to 100km/h, but don't expect anything better than that.
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

These Vlocities will run to Bdale yes??
vlocity27


No, Bdale is BG.


M.
The Vinelander

The first post of this thread refers:

https://www.railpage.com.au/f-t11386472-0-asc-s0.htm
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

These Vlocities will run to Bdale yes??


No, Bdale is BG.


M.

The first post of this thread refers:

https://www.railpage.com.au/f-t11386472-0-asc-s0.htm
kitchgp
Existing bg commuter type V/locities having been running 4 of 6 daily services to Bairnsdale since 08/18 to lighten the loads on Stratford Bridge and nurse couple more years out of the poor soul .
  Duncs Chief Commissioner

How much does DG cost when compared to SG or BG ? And do Trains have to run slower on DG or can VLocity’s for example run 160km/h on DG ?

The additional cost for DG sleepers is negligible. Obviously the additional rail has to be paid for, which is a small additional cost. But the real whack comes in the turnouts, gauge transfers and other such equipment, which are massively more complicated to build and maintain and hence far more expensive.

BG trains on (BG/SG) DG are presently limited to 80km/h, because of the supposed risk of ballast etc becoming trapped between the BG and SG rail, and derailing the BG train. There is talk of this arbitrary speed limit being lifted to 100km/h, but don't expect anything better than that.
potatoinmymouth
I understand the point about BG V Locities being safety/speed limited to 80kph. In WA The Prospector does 100 kph on DG track as the SG rail is on the outside and the NG rail is on the inside. But the space between the two rails is wider (3' 6" versus 4' 8.5") so there is more clearance margin if a piece of ballast gets lodged between the rails. Here the gap is narrower at 5'3" versus 4' 8.5". But 100kph should be considered. Especially of we dual gauge Geelong through to Ballarat and Maryborough. At present V Locities do 80kph on BG track from Ballarat to Maryborough in any case.

One would think that a SG V Locity should be able to run faster as it uses the inside SG rail on DG track. So no obvious ballast issue. I would think 120 - 130 kph should be doable safely here.
  hbedriver Chief Train Controller

Chatting with a “chap in the know”, he claims to have attended risk assessments about third rail. At the time, it only applied in yards and through Bunbury Street to West Footscray. The line speed there was 65km/h, so that is what it became. No other reason, and no reason until now to review that.

Any risk of an object between rails on DG track is similar to any quantity of points, bridges with guard/check rails, and level crossings. We don’t slow Vlocity trains down at those spots!

I really think the claims about risks are just Furphies
  woodford Chief Commissioner

How much does DG cost when compared to SG or BG ? And do Trains have to run slower on DG or can VLocity’s for example run 160km/h on DG ?

The additional cost for DG sleepers is negligible. Obviously the additional rail has to be paid for, which is a small additional cost. But the real whack comes in the turnouts, gauge transfers and other such equipment, which are massively more complicated to build and maintain and hence far more expensive.

BG trains on (BG/SG) DG are presently limited to 80km/h, because of the supposed risk of ballast etc becoming trapped between the BG and SG rail, and derailing the BG train. There is talk of this arbitrary speed limit being lifted to 100km/h, but don't expect anything better than that.
I understand the point about BG V Locities being safety/speed limited to 80kph. In WA The Prospector does 100 kph on DG track as the SG rail is on the outside and the NG rail is on the inside. But the space between the two rails is wider (3' 6" versus 4' 8.5") so there is more clearance margin if a piece of ballast gets lodged between the rails. Here the gap is narrower at 5'3" versus 4' 8.5". But 100kph should be considered. Especially of we dual gauge Geelong through to Ballarat and Maryborough. At present V Locities do 80kph on BG track from Ballarat to Maryborough in any case.

One would think that a SG V Locity should be able to run faster as it uses the inside SG rail on DG track. So no obvious ballast issue. I would think 120 - 130 kph should be doable safely here.
Duncs
The 80kph speed limit on dual gauge track in Victoria only applies to BG, the SG speedlimit is what ever the track speed limit is. The Albury Express regularly does 115 kph on the dual gauge track on the Albion line.

woodford
  james.au Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
Especially of we dual gauge Geelong through to Ballarat
Duncs
To my knowledge this section has been slated to become SG only.
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

Especially of we dual gauge Geelong through to Ballarat
To my knowledge this section has been slated to become SG only.
james.au
It is not ballast falling between the two closely spaced rails it is brake blocks that present the greater de-railment risk .

A full risk asessment was done by external Engineers during my time at VLP and it is all a matter of extent of risk/damage if a bg train comes off . Higher the speed the more damage to life and limb, and rollingstock and  track etc too .

As a result of that asessment the then limit of 65kmh for bg trains on dg track was raised to 80 kmh for bg trains on dg track . SG trains can do full line speed .
For the umpteenth time Gheringhap - Warrenheip is only to be standardized now, NO dg on that section .'

Ballarat - Maryborough still looks like dg at this stage, just so VLP can maintain a bg train set . Waste of both capex and on going extra track maintenance costs . Money better spent in standardizing Ballarat - Ararat really  .

VLP is believed to have commissioned a review of the allowable speed for bg trains over this future dg track section, and the Daryl Kerrigan vibes are that the speed will be raised to 90 or 100kmh if the unnecessary dg does actually eventuate on that section .
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
For the umpteenth time Gheringhap - Warrenheip is only to be standardized now, NO dg on that section
Unless it’s thrown under the rug and forgotten about as governments do with many things.
  trainbrain Chief Commissioner

Once Geelong/Ballarat is done to SG, what are the bets that Ararat/Maryborough will be booked out again.
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

plus either DG or SG Ballarat - Maryborough
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

Question: would check rails at strategic locations minimise the damage in a brake block derailment scenario? Obviously I'm not advocating four rails in this particular scenario where any numbnut could tell you only two are needed, but just interested in more general solutions to this difficulty (because like it or not, it's one that Victoria will always have to deal with.)
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

Something else: there's lots of interesting bits and bobs emerging as transport.vic.gov.au is rewritten for the new DOT.

https://transport.vic.gov.au/our-transport-future/our-projects/new-upgraded-trains-and-trams/planning-next-generation-trains-and-trams

It's now clear that the Department is actively looking at a new fleet, separate to the long-distance VLo build (which is on another webpage). It's not clear what this fleet would be, but my guess - from the references to retiring the "Classic Fleet" and "more passengers" - is the long-mooted high-capacity train for commuter services. The reference to "integrating these trains with the network" suggests to me that the biggest headache is whether to order these trains now, or to wait for possible Geelong/Ballarat sparking. My guess is we'll hear a lot more on this subject in the later half of this year.
  james.au Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
Something else: there's lots of interesting bits and bobs emerging as transport.vic.gov.au is rewritten for the new DOT.

https://transport.vic.gov.au/our-transport-future/our-projects/new-upgraded-trains-and-trams/planning-next-generation-trains-and-trams

It's now clear that the Department is actively looking at a new fleet, separate to the long-distance VLo build (which is on another webpage). It's not clear what this fleet would be, but my guess - from the references to retiring the "Classic Fleet" and "more passengers" - is the long-mooted high-capacity train for commuter services. The reference to "integrating these trains with the network" suggests to me that the biggest headache is whether to order these trains now, or to wait for possible Geelong/Ballarat sparking. My guess is we'll hear a lot more on this subject in the later half of this year.
potatoinmymouth
Is this just a carry over and perhaps in need of deletion?
  vlocity27 Junior Train Controller

Location: Pakenham
Would love to see in the near future long distance Vlocity units running top speeds of 200km/h + to Bairnsdale.
  Duncs Chief Commissioner

For the umpteenth time Gheringhap - Warrenheip is only to be standardized now, NO dg on that section
Unless it’s thrown under the rug and forgotten about as governments do with many things.
Dangersdan707
Thanks for that info. I missed it earlier. My only concern is that once that line is SG there is only one BG connection from SCS to Ballarat, so if there is a track problem, then moving rolling stock from SCS to Ballarat stops until the problem is fixed. But we will have to wait and see.
  Duncs Chief Commissioner

Would love to see in the near future long distance Vlocity units running top speeds of 200km/h + to Bairnsdale.
vlocity27
Unlikely as that is already above the 160kph limit to Traralgon. But 130 kph on class two track (up from 100kph on the class three track in use now) is quite realistic and achievable from Traralgon through Sale to Bairnsdale.
  Lockie91 Train Controller

@PIMM

I think this is just left over from the governments “10 year rolling stock strategy” that came out a few years ago.

https://www.premier.vic.gov.au/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/PTVH1486_Rolling_Stock_Strategy_A4_Spreads_%C6%92_web.pdf

Which was basically a big glossy spreed outlining that they would develop a pipeline of works to keep people in the industry and keep jobs down. Was also aimed at car workers that were loosing there jobs at the time.

A post VLocity, HCMT and E class were all mentioned in the document.

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