Clyde extension should not wait 10-15 years to get built

 
  ZH836301 Chief Commissioner

Location: BleakCity
ZH, particularly relating to the Ballarat line. You only look at the present, you don't look at future requirements due to booming population growth along the corridor.
Whinelander

How so?  Did you actually read it?

With consistent station spacing, there will be future stops at Cobblebank, Thornhill Park, and Deanside, with a larger gap between the last and Rockbank due to the Outer Ring Road alignment.  Current travel times vary, but as stated we can take some values from existing timetables (timetabled all stops are actually faster than I previously indicated):

*Southern Cross to Sunshine (Footscray): 12min
*Sunshine to Melton (express): 17min
*Sunshine to Melton (all stops): 20min
*Sunshine to Melton (all future stops): 23min

*Melton to Ballarat (BM/Ballan): 42min

With a relaxed 12tph (eg. with capacity to spare) on a track pair from the city, we could divide 4tph equally between Wyndham, Melton, and Ballarat (Geelong via MM2), giving 4tph to all stations, plus 8tph to Melton, Deer Park and Ardeer.  Melton, express, Wyndham.  

Those timings give all stops to Melton in the future of 35min, and operating in the manner described in my post (eg. all stops departing 5min after express services), the express services can easily shave 5min between Melton and Deer Park, which gives an express time of 30min to Melton, and 72min to Ballarat, both more than competitive with road.  For comparison, the current fastest service from SCS to Melton is 65min, but that only stops at Ballan.  

Now potentially you could run up to 20tph, at which stage express services would be restricted to running 3min faster than the stoppers, but that still gives a reasonable travel time of 74min to Ballarat.  However at that stage you may as well dispense with express running (capacity to the suburban destinations being far more important) and just push 10tph through both branches, giving a 77min journey time, which is still faster than some existing services.  

So I fail to see the issue - travel times are more than reasonable with 12tph giving plenty of breathing room, and it's doubtful that 4tph to Ballarat will prove insufficient any time soon.  

So how about you man up, and actually identify what you see as the problem, capacity or speed-wise, instead of just posting a cop out response.  As per usual, you avoid such particulars in lieu of soundbites and jingoism, since it avoids you having to prove that you've put any thought into things and risk exposing yourself to being proven wrong, with your flawed preconceptions laid bare.


Population and population growth is very important to consider when deciding where people are likely to work and use the rail line. As for Geelong and Ballarat. Although there movements are quite low as you may have pointed out, if the service is improved likely that movement would increase.
True Believers

Same argument could be applied to anywhere else, why should they be held on a pedestal?

Outer suburbs like Wydnham Vale, Tarneit, Caroline Springs. These suburbs more likely depend on services into Melbourne and may have higher percentage of population commuting into Melbourne. While Ballarat/Geelong are their own cities in respect and some people may commute locally.
True Believer

Is stating the obvious supposed to be insightful?


Every Ballarat train is full in the peak due to stopping at stops meant for metro trains. I've seen that Tarneit station is the second busiest station on the Vline network. Both facts and I can show you sources if you don't believe me. There is clearly demand for more services in that area. Maybe if you knew the struggles of the services in the west maybe you'd understand why posters are pushing for gold plated solutions over here.
True Believer

So?  Was the same for Sunbury back in the day, it's well known suburban stations provide the greater patronage.


There is justification for the upgraded service, currently the regional trains shouldn't be taken on stations served by Melbourne middle/outer suburbs.
True Believer

Why?  You can't just make a statement and act as though it is a commandment written in stone.


I'm not stupid.
True Believer

Haven't done much to prove otherwise.


The reason that puts off most people off the Geelong line extension off the Werribee line, is the line would have to be electrified first. Is there justification for this? The quadding track may be a little excessive if the line is extended and electrified to Geelong.
True Believer

At such frequencies, with increasing fuel bills, clearly there is.


If there is express btw 4 stops (a new stop at Derrimut which you seem to miss) and the Werribee line planned to have 24Tph in the future. And Geelong services running seperate (not electrified), maybe some passing loops can be added.
True Believer

Increases expenditure, decreases reliability, for little result.

Times are competitive with road, which is all you need for Geelong - the service would still thrive even if they were slower (due to the expenses of driving to the CBD).


As for Geelong and and Ballarat, it's the stops in the outer suburbs that making these services late and over-crowded. Running 2 services Melton/Wydnham services together will mean a 10 minute delay. There is plenty of room for the extra track, how much would it cost? Probably only 1 billion dollars. Much cheaper than other proposed quadding.
True Believer

See previous replies - spending so much money for basically no modal shift (since it's already near-saturated) simply isn't worth it.


With Williamstown & Altona downgraded to light rail - all that should be sufficient capacity far into the foreseeable future.
That's a popular suggestion? How much do you suggest will that cost? The new light rail stabling? The new trams? Come on ZH, it's too much hassle than it's worth.
True Believer
There's a massive logical flaw in this statement, so I'm not even going to bother (maybe you'll pick it out, since you're so intelligent).

As I asked another poster, have you ever been on a real metro?

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  ptvcommuter Train Controller

There has been talk in the last few years about an airport at Koo Wee Rup. Personally I think Avalon is too close to Tullamarine and you’d be better just keeping the air show there and turning most of the land into new housing developments.

Koo Wee Rup would have domestic flights and serve cargo operations. Melbourne’s version of badgery creek but on a smaller scope. Would serve Gippsland and the south east

Airport would be served by PT on the newly reinstated Leongatha Line and Clyde electrified.
  reubstar6 Chief Train Controller

Tooradin?
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
Tooradin?
reubstar6
There Is an old RAAF Base East of Monomeith

The alignments of the former runways can be seen on Google Maps
  justarider Assistant Commissioner

Location: Stuck on VR and hoping for better.
about an airport at Koo Wee Rup.
ptvcommuter

We could bring back flying boats, so they can land on the runway after it sinks down into the swamp.
  drunkill Junior Train Controller

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Tooradin is too small and it is a grass runway anyway. It would remain as a light aircraft airstrip and a helicport.


Monomeith will have a private airport built on it mainly for tourism flights into Phillip Island from Asia, it wouldn't have (m)any domestic routes other than to Sydney I imagine as a connection.

Land will be reserved by the government but nothing will be built before 2030.

A clyde extension would work, it'd work even better if you then built new track north to connect to the gippsland line allowing some trains go run via the airport to dandenong then turn back to gippsland,
  ptvcommuter Train Controller

Avalon is too close to Tullamarine and this airport at caldermeade could be a perfect for freight and some domestic passenger traffic. Private money, wouldn’t cost taxpayers a cent

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