Italy halts Turin-Lyon high-speed rail project tenders

 
Topic moved from News by dthead on 17 Apr 2019 13:39
  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
Turin to Lyon is the current route for services out of the north of Italy to Western Europe countries like France and also access to Eurostar services to London and Belgium. Trains use this route everyday ragged as TGV services are t they already high speed ?

Italy halts Turin-Lyon high-speed rail project tenders

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  duttonbay Minister for Railways

No. Although TGVs run Lyon-Turin and on to Milan, they are running on classical railways. The TGV is the train, but to run at high speed they must be on an LGV - a Ligne à Grande Vitesse. There's some pretty decent mountains to get through.
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
No. Although TGVs run Lyon-Turin and on to Milan, they are running on classical railways. The TGV is the train, but to run at high speed they must be on an LGV - a Ligne à Grande Vitesse. There's some pretty decent mountains to get through.
duttonbay
isn't this the route "Top Gear" UK had James May and the Richard Hammond using the PT from London to Millan and Clarkson was driving a Mustang Shelby.

For part of the trip they were doubling the Mustang's speed, but the mountains killed the train winding on single track.
  justapassenger Chief Commissioner

I've been following the tortuous progress on this project for a while.

TGV trains can only run at high speed when they are on a high speed line. When they are running on conventional lines, they are restricted to the same speeds as conventional passenger trains. In the case of the present conventional line through Bardonecchia and Modane, the speed of passenger trains is constrained by not only the speeds allowed by the infrastructure but also the large amount of freight traffic (more freight trains traverse this line every day than the Nullarbor gets in a fortnight) which runs slowly due to the 30‰ ruling grade and tight curves.

The new route is to provide a 220km/h route for passenger services (technically conventional rail, not high speed) which would allow Paris-Milan times to come down from about 6.5 hours to 4 hours. The major benefit though, will be in providing a better freight route with a ruling grade of 12.5‰ which will allow longer and heavier freight trains to run faster through the Alps (literally through, not over) with a minimum speed of 100km/h.


The project is constituted of three distinct segments with different management (the French section, the international section including the base tunnel, the Italian section) so there's still a strong chance that at least some components of the French section will still be built. The French components alone would allow TGV services to Italy and TGV/regional passenger services to certain French places whose names would be better known to Australian pro cycling fans than Australian railfans* to be accelerated by about 45-60 minutes.

* e.g. Modane where Cadel Evans defended his chance to win the 2011 Tour de France, Grenoble where he sealed the victory, Chambery where Richie Porte crashed out of the Tour in 2017, Saint-Michel-de-Maurienne where the Télégraphe-Galibier climb starts etc!
  mikesyd Chief Commissioner

Location: Lurking
I've been following the tortuous progress on this project for a while.

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

* e.g. Modane where Cadel Evans defended his chance to win the 2011 Tour de France, Grenoble where he sealed the victory, Chambery where Richie Porte crashed out of the Tour in 2017, Saint-Michel-de-Maurienne where the Télégraphe-Galibier climb starts etc!
justapassenger
Yes indeed, I had many late nights glued to the TV in July 2011 watching his exploits.
  mikesyd Chief Commissioner

Location: Lurking
I've been following the tortuous progress on this project for a while.

TGV trains can only run at high speed when they are on a high speed line. When they are running on conventional lines, they are restricted to the same speeds as conventional passenger trains. In the case of the present conventional line through Bardonecchia and Modane, the speed of passenger trains is constrained by not only the speeds allowed by the infrastructure but also the large amount of freight traffic (more freight trains traverse this line every day than the Nullarbor gets in a fortnight) which runs slowly due to the 30‰ ruling grade and tight curves.

The new route is to provide a 220km/h route for passenger services (technically conventional rail, not high speed) which would allow Paris-Milan times to come down from about 6.5 hours to 4 hours. The major benefit though, will be in providing a better freight route with a ruling grade of 12.5‰ which will allow longer and heavier freight trains to run faster through the Alps (literally through, not over) with a minimum speed of 100km/h.


The project is constituted of three distinct segments with different management (the French section, the international section including the base tunnel, the Italian section) so there's still a strong chance that at least some components of the French section will still be built. The French components alone would allow TGV services to Italy and TGV/regional passenger services to certain French places whose names would be better known to Australian pro cycling fans than Australian railfans* to be accelerated by about 45-60 minutes.

* e.g. Modane where Cadel Evans defended his chance to win the 2011 Tour de France, Grenoble where he sealed the victory, Chambery where Richie Porte crashed out of the Tour in 2017, Saint-Michel-de-Maurienne where the Télégraphe-Galibier climb starts etc!
justapassenger
Yes it's been planned for quite a while, costs being the main barrier as it involves a Base tunnel almost as long as the Gotthard Base Tunnel. Most passengers who travel by Train from France to Italy tend to go via Geneva/Basel/Zurich, then through Switzerland to Milano. There is also the Coast line from Marseille through Monaco to Genoa. As well as the little used, but spectacular (I have travelled on it) line from Ventimiglia (or Nice) to Cuneo (and eventually Turin) on the "Tendebahn".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turin–Lyon_high-speed_railway
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mont_d%27Ambin_Base_Tunnel

And, yes, in France, TGV's run on many 'classical' lines with the resultant speed limitations, likewise as do ICE Trains in Germany.

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