I know, he was a fool. He was only focused on the CO2  taxcomponent which was not a major factor.

Commonwealth cannot afford to Nationlise the power sector, it would be beyond their funding capacity and only to reduce revenue through cuts in prices makes it even worse.

Rubbish, Bill Shorten is proposing to spend $1,000,000,000,000 (a trillion) on moving us to completely green sources of energy by 2030. Nationalisation doesn't necessarily mean paying full market rates for the assets they're acquiring - and even then the national power system wouldn't be anywhere near a trillion dollars.

Change and adapt means acknowledging your protectionist way of existence is coming to an end whether you like it or not. You can crash or you can evolve. If you didn't notice prior to these changes the economy was in a downward spiral as the consumers were peeved off with low quality high cost local made goods.

Again, rubbish. Local goods were EXTREMELY HIGH QUALITY, how many Hills Hoists are there still in operation around Australia 70 years after they were made? My mechanic tells me my BA Falcon ute was one of the best cars that Ford ever made and it should keep running for decades. The quality of the goods had nothing to do with it - the fact is that we couldn't compete against people working for $2 a day - end-of-story.

In my very limited experience of visiting Asia I can tell you I've got absolutely no desire to replicate their living standards in this country - especially given the huge social problems that accompany that poverty. You might view it as a favourable thing that our living standards are going down but I don't - and you'll probably feel the same way once you get back here and find yourself either unemployed or unable to make enough money to make ends meet.

So he's going to spend roughly 17 times the annual fed budget over that period of time on one sector and at the same time pay down a $400B or what ever debt and deal with any economic downturns that come along during this time. If anyone thinks the man still has credibility is a fool!

So no, he's not going to Nationalise the power sector, nor can the Feds afford it and yes I think it would be upwards of $500B to do so if not more.


No they were not high quality for all and even if they were the spending public choose to spend their money elsewhere which is why they are not made here anymore, simple as that!

From your very limited experience visiting Asia you havn;t seen enough to make a valid opinion.

Australia's standard of living is still one of the best in the world and its about time some people actually got used to the fact their so called miserable lives are actually alot less miserable than the vast bulk of the worlds population.

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2016/07/these-countries-have-the-highest-quality-of-life
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/27/us-news-world-report-10-countries-with-the-best-quality-of-life.html

It would appear migrants have few issues getting jobs in Oz, which is why so many still want to come.

"Change and adapt" means we will have living standards the same as the Asian neighbours that we are competing against. In terms of decline in living standards, you ain't seen nothing yet.

Not meaning to sound racist, but with so many Asian people now living in Australia, perhaps we should adopt their living standards?

Okay, you first.

My Asian inlaws living standards are as follows
- 5 bedroom Villa in Penang, Malaysia with nanny for their handicapped child, maid etc
- 3 bed double story apartment in a high end part of Singapore driving a large Volvo, complex has 25m swimming pool
- 3 bed apartment at Milson's point over looking Sydney Harbour bridge
- Sydney North Shore large house some where

My wife has 4 cousins born in Oz that are all Doctors, 2 more that are uncle and aunt.

where did they all come from? A small village 100km south of KL, where the kitchen with dirt floor was partly outside all food cooked in a large wok over an open fire, no refrigerator. The house is actually a shop but only used as a house with an active freight railway running in the street next to their side of the foot path 3m from their front door.  5 kids, no welfare, limited medical, local schools etc

Yep, maybe we could all learn something from them and stop bitching!

I have built two dwellings. Used PGH bricks - a long time ago. I also had a look at Austral and Boral. Back then... I am certain they all baked their bricks locally. Same with Monier cement roof tiles. If I had to build a shed or some other structure, even a new home, I would look at locally made weatherboard or corrugated iron - if there are stonemasons about, I would even consider local rock.

As for the radiator, I was under the impression that the radiator was Australian made, because the company I bought it from have been beating their chests that they were an Australian company (and presumably, their radiators were still Australian made). After having two radiators in a short space of time, I was done with it. That is when I found out that their rads were made in China. Within 2 months, the first rad separated on one of the sides. The same happened with the second one that replaced the first one under warranty. When that started leaking 2 months into its use, I had it ripped out and replaced by OEM. The chinese rads were installed by so called radiator specialists who pushed the Australian brand. The OEM was done by a dealer and I cut my losses with the so called Australian radiator company rather than lose my engine.

I am not Chinese bashing, because I understand and know that they can make some great products to strict manufacturing specifications for local or international companies, that is the reality. Unfortunately, I am yet to be convinced about their autoparts.

However, as good as USA bricks might be, I would draw the line on importing them to build an outhouse. I also realise that other consumers wouldn't care either way.

Interesting

it goes to show, how hard you need to work to make sure its local made.

China makes good stuff when using QC systems that apply to typical western brands. otherwise you have some guy in his thongs, squatting on the floor in a shed welding the radiator for a few bucks an hour at best. Anyone who owns a DJI drone will tell you that some of their stuff is outstanding. The problem with China is standards vary from very low to very high and most people who complain end up going for very low.

Indian's think all Chinese domestic goods, electrical, white etc are crap and were surprised to learn most of Australia's stuff is Chinese made. The difference is they are not used to getting the higher end QC products Australia normally gets. Hence in India branding is so important and heavily marketed. They are far more brand focused than I'd say the average Aussie.

Knock-off OEM parts have always been variable in quality long before China came along, hence why the car manufacturers are carefully about warranties and putting a knock-off in immediately voids the warranty in many cases.

China is importing low grade refectory bricks from India right now, so maybe an opportunity.

To be honest and frank I would not vote for any of them to clean a dunny. None of them have any real idea about Australia as a whole, to them it is really just a series of colonies or so it seems. There is life the other side of the Blue Mountains though, believe it or not.

Just remember the words of H L Mencken:- "Politicians are like babies' nappies; they should be changed frequently and for much the same reason."

Meanwhile, across the Ditch, Jacinta (Ms. Popularity among the elite) Ardern wants Kiwis to become vegan:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-05-08/new-zealand-proposes-emissions-targets-but-farmers-angry/11091212

Such an easy problem to solve!

A new govt task force to follow all the cows around with a bic lighter. Suggest poli. staffers from Canberra, they must have plenty experience.

cheers
John

It is Jacinda
I suggest some intelligent research is necessary before you make smart alec comments
eg

https://www.futurelearn.com/courses/climate-smart-agriculture/0/steps/26578

This is something NZ needs to now do as we have made great progress in reducing other carbon emissions. Of course farmers are not happy. I am proud to have moved to a country whose electricity is 80% renewable, actually 100% down here in the South Island and apparently cheaper than in Oz.
I am researching buying an electric car to replace my 9 year old Ford Fiesta which I bought new when I emigrated.  At the moment still a rather expensive purchase for a retired person and normally I only fill up with petrol about once per month. I use free public transport where possible.
However Dunedin leads NZ for owning electric cars
https://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/dunedin-leads-nz-owning-electric-cars and I believe NZ leads Australia in per capita terms.

I don't doubt that NZ are way ahead of Australia when it comes to renewable energy.  We have a lot to learn from them in this area, although they have a head-start with far more Hydro-electric and Geo-thermal electricity production.  I just think the crackdown on farting cows and sheep is a bit unrealistic and idealistic.

Talking of NZ and China, quite an interesting presentation on the way China interfere with the politics of other countries by Anne-Marie Brady who has been mercilessly harassed/harangued/intimidated by Chinese agents and their political puppets in NZ:
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2019/05/08/575479/anne-marie-bradys-full-submission

As I've mentioned elsewhere, you can always trust Communists,..... to be Communists.

Interesting debate between Scomo and Shorten at the national press club last night.  I get the feeling from the debate which I think Shorten won was the public are wanting change now at various levels.  They want a distribution of wealth which many probably see as being concentrated at the top end of town.   Scomo has not said anything which makes me think this will change in another coalition term.

Environment is really at the top now of thinking across Greens and ALP and probably some of the other independent candidates.

After the 3 debates, and coming up to the voting day, Australia is changing through the progressive views of the younger generation and politics at the Liberal and National Party is now becoming irrelevant and that is when you drop off the radar for younger voters.

Interesting debate between Scomo and Shorten at the national press club last night.  I get the feeling from the debate which I think Shorten won was the public are wanting change now at various levels.  They want a distribution of wealth which many probably see as being concentrated at the top end of town.   Scomo has not said anything which makes me think this will change in another coalition term.

Environment is really at the top now of thinking across Greens and ALP and probably some of the other independent candidates.

After the 3 debates, and coming up to the voting day, Australia is changing through the progressive views of the younger generation and politics at the Liberal and National Party is now becoming irrelevant and that is when you drop off the radar for younger voters.

I agree that the Libs and Nats have failed on Environmental issues.  Badly, in many cases.

But I suspect we'll end up in an economic hole that we will struggle to extract ourselves from, and they'll be a big bash-lash.  Similar to the reaction during/after 2010.

@Carnot and @Duncs are we really looking now at the end of the libs and conservative politics as we know it?  If political parties are not prepared to change by embracing the views of the voting public they over a period become redundant?

I don't doubt that NZ are way ahead of Australia when it comes to renewable energy.  We have a lot to learn from them in this area, although they have a head-start with far more Hydro-electric and Geo-thermal electricity production.  I just think the crackdown on farting cows and sheep is a bit unrealistic and idealistic.

Yes, we need to keep it real. We have nothing to learn about RE from NZ.

Could we say Tas is way ahead of NZ burning now coal and very little gas?

NZ is NOT ahead of Aust on RE, they have done very little to their energy mix over the last 20 years, what they have today is purely circumstance. If anything they have been relatively slow to roll out wind finding numerous excuses over last 20 years not to install, mostly environmental. I believe Australia walks over NZ when it comes to Solar roll out as well.

Oh, as far as NZ's hydro is concerned, we all know that if they went to build those dams today, all hell would break loose in the Green movement and their current PM would have gone to the polls with a No Dams policy.

@Carnot and @Duncs are we really looking now at the end of the libs and conservative politics as we know it?  If political parties are not prepared to change by embracing the views of the voting public they over a period become redundant?

Not at all.  The libs and conservatives will regroup.  Everyone said that left-wing politics and socialism was dead and buried after 1989, but that's made a big comeback recently (look at the American Democratic Party today!).

Meanwhile, across the Ditch, Jacinta (Ms. Popularity among the elite) Ardern wants Kiwis to become vegan:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-05-08/new-zealand-proposes-emissions-targets-but-farmers-angry/11091212

Such an easy problem to solve!

A new govt task force to follow all the cows around with a bic lighter. Suggest poli. staffers from Canberra, they must have plenty experience.

cheers
John

It is Jacinda
I suggest some intelligent research is necessary before you make smart alec comments
eg

https://www.futurelearn.com/courses/climate-smart-agriculture/0/steps/26578

This is something NZ needs to now do as we have made great progress in reducing other carbon emissions. Of course farmers are not happy. I am proud to have moved to a country whose electricity is 80% renewable, actually 100% down here in the South Island and apparently cheaper than in Oz.
I am researching buying an electric car to replace my 9 year old Ford Fiesta which I bought new when I emigrated.  At the moment still a rather expensive purchase for a retired person and normally I only fill up with petrol about once per month. I use free public transport where possible.
However Dunedin leads NZ for owning electric cars
https://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/dunedin-leads-nz-owning-electric-cars and I believe NZ leads Australia in per capita terms.

As I said in my above post, NZ is lagging OZ in embracing new RE, the existing hydro network is a legacy network built before "global warming" and Australia pretty much did the same where it could, ie Tas and Snowy. However terrain doesn't favour Australia for more Hydro. However what Australia and NZ have in common is that the hydro era came to an abrupt end in late 80's because of the Green Movement and this includes ongoing protests about some of NZ hydro projects and claims of what they have done to the rivers of NZ. The river dammed for NZAS comes to mind.

If your PM was running for PM today and there was plans to build more dams, she would have run with a "No Dam" platform.

NZ has also been very slow for wind roll out with numerous projects stalled on Env grounds.

Australia is certainly lagging on EV's but there are a few logistics issues that is not helping Australia's case. I have two friends in NZ who own a i3, one in Wanka and the other in Nth Is, they live in a rural area by choice but have sufficient range to make the nearest major centre and airport. BAsically this option would almost be non-existent in Australia. Certainly around Sydney rural land is very expensive with Mel not much better for the better landscapes.

EDIT: Maybe just clarify my friends i3's.
1. Young couple moved to Wanka, Aus : Russian. She has gone all green and vegan, hence, Wanka, not Aust or more developed parts of NZ and her i3. Their car and lifestyle funded by his monthly rotation to the Oil Industry in Iraq. How much fuel is burnt on a return seat to the middle east?

2. Much older ~200km from Auckland, 82y old, likely worlds most highest paid Aluminium industry consultant. His i3 has the range extender genset to get to Auckland Airport.  The same industry that many in NZ want to close so the power can be sent north and the flow of the river it dammed improved.

Are these the typical EV owners in NZ?

The other big stumbling block is Australia's embracment of RE has driven up the price of power so much that EV's are barely viable on energy grounds alone and in the case of Vic, EV's would produce more CO2, not less.

Meanwhile, across the Ditch, Jacinta (Ms. Popularity among the elite) Ardern wants Kiwis to become vegan:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-05-08/new-zealand-proposes-emissions-targets-but-farmers-angry/11091212

Such an easy problem to solve!

A new govt task force to follow all the cows around with a bic lighter. Suggest poli. staffers from Canberra, they must have plenty experience.

cheers
John

It is Jacinda
I suggest some intelligent research is necessary before you make smart alec comments
eg

https://www.futurelearn.com/courses/climate-smart-agriculture/0/steps/26578

This is something NZ needs to now do as we have made great progress in reducing other carbon emissions. Of course farmers are not happy. I am proud to have moved to a country whose electricity is 80% renewable, actually 100% down here in the South Island and apparently cheaper than in Oz.
I am researching buying an electric car to replace my 9 year old Ford Fiesta which I bought new when I emigrated.  At the moment still a rather expensive purchase for a retired person and normally I only fill up with petrol about once per month. I use free public transport where possible.
However Dunedin leads NZ for owning electric cars
https://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/dunedin-leads-nz-owning-electric-cars and I believe NZ leads Australia in per capita terms.

As I said in my above post, NZ is lagging OZ in embracing new RE, the existing hydro network is a legacy network built before "global warming" and Australia pretty much did the same where it could, ie Tas and Snowy. However terrain doesn't favour Australia for more Hydro. However what Australia and NZ have in common is that the hydro era came to an abrupt end in late 80's because of the Green Movement and this includes ongoing protests about some of NZ hydro projects and claims of what they have done to the rivers of NZ. The river dammed for NZAS comes to mind.

If your PM was running for PM today and there was plans to build more dams, she would have run with a "No Dam" platform.

NZ has also been very slow for wind roll out with numerous projects stalled on Env grounds.

Australia is certainly lagging on EV's but there are a few logistics issues that is not helping Australia's case. I have two friends in NZ who own a i3, one in Wanka and the other in Nth Is, they live in a rural area by choice but have sufficient range to make the nearest major centre and airport. BAsically this option would almost be non-existent in Australia. Certainly around Sydney rural land is very expensive with Mel not much better for the better landscapes.

The other big stumbling block is Australia's embracment of RE has driven up the price of power so much that EV's are barely viable on energy grounds alone and in the case of Vic, EV's would produce more CO2, not less.

True - at the present time.  But with a future shift away from fossil-fuel generated electricity, EVs will eventually make much more sense for most people.

Yep, maybe we could all learn something from them and stop bitching!

Those people sound really typical of the average Asian citizen, don't they.

Like I said, I can't wait for you to actually get back here and then starting whinging about how much harder it is...

No they were not high quality for all and even if they were the spending public choose to spend their money elsewhere which is why they are not made here anymore, simple as that!

Sweeping generalisation of the year: Australian products were not high quality. I know you've spent half your life overseas but we had a lot to be proud of in this country and it's all been off-shored because we couldn't compete with people working $2 a day, it had zero to do with the quality of the goods that you keep deriding as inferior.

Not a very patriotic Australian are you. You know I really can't wait for you to get back here and experience how wonderful Australia is after forty years of Thatcherism, I can already hear the whinging now:

"But I'm so experienced and qualified, why is the only thing available to me wiping arses or clearing tables for $10 an hour?"

As a person who has lived all his life in Australia I must agree somewhat about Australian made stuff there was a lot of rubbish made in Aust though over the years, but we did make most of our own good quality stuff as well. We have a Astor fridge here that I can remember my parents purchasing it and it still goes as good as the day it was made and it must be now at least 50 years old as I am 65 this year. But things like this are not made anywhere anymore as they are made now to last about 10 years or so and the makers do it deliberately so that you have to purchase another one and hopefully from them again. But over the years the quality dropped rather quickly and wages went up and so now the most common thing you will find on just about anything is "Made in China".  Go into a local hardware store and see if you can buy an Australian made tool, there might be one or two that are but most will be Chinese made in a shop like this, even screws,nails bolts,,nuts, washers, hinges, locks etc are now all made in China and imported.

I have a packet of washers here which are simple to make and they are from Zenith but down the bottom of the packet on the reverse side is "Made in China".  Nearly everything these days is made cheaply in China otherwise you would have to take out a mortage almost to pay for a new fridge or TV etc if they were Australian made. Pensioners and poor Australians will always buy something that is cheaper than the rest though and why not, they do not have the money to spend up big on top of the range stuff, so they make do with the lower priced stuff.

I am a model railroader as well and 98% of the stuff that I buy is Chinese made including all the Australian RTR models as well. Why because they can be made cheaper over there. I often get asked at were I volunteer how much a single model locomotive is, and when you say from $300 upward the person cringes. But alas the day of a $30 locomotive has been gone for decades now and is never likely to return. Also the price goes up in China to make something and also because out here in Australia we demand more and more things in the models, DCC, sound, lighting, finer detail etc so the price goes up. It all ups the price in the end.

If that same RTR loco was made here in Australia it would be closer to $1,000 than $300. Simply because of Australian costs, like wages, and plant and equipment etc to make them. Sure it might be expensive to you now, but if you don't buy it now you will miss out on it, if you really have your heart set on getting one.

We are at the stage now that really hardly anything is now Australian made and that includes food as well, a lot of Australian food brands now carry marking that they are made from local and imported ingredients but I bet my last dollar that the imported part is the greater of the two.

All we are good for now is digging something out of the soil and exporting it to buy it back in products made overseas.

On a bit of a different note, there's a young reporter for the Sydney Morning Herald/The Age making a trip by public transport up the east coast, talking to people about the election. So far he's done the bus from Hobart to Launceston, ferry to Melbourne, V/Line to Albury, XPT to Wagga, bus and tram into Canberra, bus to Kiama, trains to Grafton, train to Casino, and bus to Brisbane. A nice intersection of our interests!

edit, whoops, forgot link:

https://www.theage.com.au/federal-election-2019/what-s-outside-the-canberra-bubble-we-re-travelling-australia-to-find-out-20190419-p51fp9.html

True - at the present time.  But with a future shift away from fossil-fuel generated electricity, EVs will eventually make much more sense for most people.

The shift away from fossil fuels is not expected to start making an impact on oil production for 10-15 years. If anyone expects Australia to be part of that they need to sort out the power sector first.

A Nissan Leaf is around 17kW/100km, if you are in Don Dunstanville your paying close to 50c/kWh or more or $6/100km

A Yaris is around 6L/100km $9/100km

Unfortunately ALP or LNP, neither have a solution on the table to resolve the power price issue, only to entrench the status quo.

Yep, maybe we could all learn something from them and stop bitching!

Those people sound really typical of the average Asian citizen, don't they.

Like I said, I can't wait for you to actually get back here and then starting whinging about how much harder it is...

Yes typical Asian, move to Australia with nothing but a 2nd rate education, broken English and two cents to their name, culture of working with what you have got and not complaining or sticking your hands out for more. Study hard, work hard, achieve greatness.

Oh BTW, they also have their aging parents with dementia in their house, looking after them themselves, not out sourced to a govt funded nursing home. My Asian Mother-inlaw, aged 70 this year is still working as a nurse in a aged care home, how many would be sticking their hands out for the OAP?

Yes Don, many of us could learn alot from them.

and on your ongoing BS last line. I and my wife have offers, not interested at this time for our own reasons, so I think you can drop it, or should do you want me start on why you won't move from the depths of power stricken SA?

True - at the present time.  But with a future shift away from fossil-fuel generated electricity, EVs will eventually make much more sense for most people.

The shift away from fossil fuels is not expected to start making an impact on oil production for 10-15 years. If anyone expects Australia to be part of that they need to sort out the power sector first.

A Nissan Leaf is around 17kW/100km, if you are in Don Dunstanville your paying close to 50c/kWh or more or $6/100km

A Yaris is around 6L/100km $9/100km

Unfortunately ALP or LNP, neither have a solution on the table to resolve the power price issue, only to entrench the status quo.

"Dunstanville"- what an awesome name for a new suburb in Radelaide.  Very marketable.

I'm not a fan of One Nation and will never vote for them, but I have to say that Mark Latham's maiden speech in the NSW Upper House yesterday was quite something (even if I disagree with some of it):
https://www.scribd.com/document/409210571/Mark-Latham-s-maiden-speech-to-NSW-Legislative-Council

No they were not high quality for all and even if they were the spending public choose to spend their money elsewhere which is why they are not made here anymore, simple as that!

Sweeping generalisation of the year: Australian products were not high quality. I know you've spent half your life overseas but we had a lot to be proud of in this country and it's all been off-shored because we couldn't compete with people working $2 a day, it had zero to do with the quality of the goods that you keep deriding as inferior.

Not a very patriotic Australian are you. You know I really can't wait for you to get back here and experience how wonderful Australia is after forty years of Thatcherism, I can already hear the whinging now:

"But I'm so experienced and qualified, why is the only thing available to me wiping arses or clearing tables for $10 an hour?"

Don,
when are you going to quit your BS and focus on what I said not what you think
- I said not all Aussie made products were high quality, not all
- You know full well I've lived in Aust most of my life
- The car I sold recently was Australian made and I didn't even live there, not all pro-Aussie mades can claim the same.

Very little that is off shored is sent for $2/day wages when productivity, welfare, CSR and other factors are considered. You you know what $2/day buys you in Indian Labour pool? SFA, yes I've been there, thats my job, China isn't much better.

Ironically, alot of Aussie made was replaced with countries of similar living standards such as EU and USA/Can.

Again I'll state it one more time for the so called Aussie made support hero's
- Who is your mobile phone carrier?
- Who is your home phone service provider?
- Who do you bank with?
- Who do you buy insurance with?
- Who do you fly with?
- Where do you shop?
- What car do you drive?
- Do you ever look at the place of manufacture when walking through the Supermarket and ignore the price?
- etc etc etc

Like it or not Don, most of the Aussie Made Support Team will never answer the above and I've rarely seen it here in RP for reasons that should be obvious to all.

Again, your ongoing BS about moving back to Oz. I have a long list of friends and acquaintances who moved back to or to Oz, most of them have done very nicely, some a slow start but generally happy with where they are and none of them are sticking their hand out or complaining with whats offered. They know, don't like it leave. If you live in the bowls of SA and struggling to get by, buy a plane ticket east, however I have a few friends moved to SA and doing ok for themselves and decided to stay, so there must be opportunity if people without local employment history or local references are getting high 5/low 6 figure salary jobs without high end degrees to support them.

As a person who has lived all his life in Australia I must agree somewhat about Australian made stuff there was a lot of rubbish made in Aust though over the years, but we did make most of our own good quality stuff as well. We have a Astor fridge here that I can remember my parents purchasing it and it still goes as good as the day it was made and it must be now at least 50 years old as I am 65 this year. But things like this are not made anywhere anymore as they are made now to last about 10 years or so and the makers do it deliberately so that you have to purchase another one and hopefully from them again. But over the years the quality dropped rather quickly and wages went up and so now the most common thing you will find on just about anything is "Made in China".  Go into a local hardware store and see if you can buy an Australian made tool, there might be one or two that are but most will be Chinese made in a shop like this, even screws,nails bolts,,nuts, washers, hinges, locks etc are now all made in China and imported.

I have a packet of washers here which are simple to make and they are from Zenith but down the bottom of the packet on the reverse side is "Made in China".  Nearly everything these days is made cheaply in China otherwise you would have to take out a mortage almost to pay for a new fridge or TV etc if they were Australian made. Pensioners and poor Australians will always buy something that is cheaper than the rest though and why not, they do not have the money to spend up big on top of the range stuff, so they make do with the lower priced stuff.

I am a model railroader as well and 98% of the stuff that I buy is Chinese made including all the Australian RTR models as well. Why because they can be made cheaper over there. I often get asked at were I volunteer how much a single model locomotive is, and when you say from $300 upward the person cringes. But alas the day of a $30 locomotive has been gone for decades now and is never likely to return. Also the price goes up in China to make something and also because out here in Australia we demand more and more things in the models, DCC, sound, lighting, finer detail etc so the price goes up. It all ups the price in the end.

If that same RTR loco was made here in Australia it would be closer to $1,000 than $300. Simply because of Australian costs, like wages, and plant and equipment etc to make them. Sure it might be expensive to you now, but if you don't buy it now you will miss out on it, if you really have your heart set on getting one.

We are at the stage now that really hardly anything is now Australian made and that includes food as well, a lot of Australian food brands now carry marking that they are made from local and imported ingredients but I bet my last dollar that the imported part is the greater of the two.

All we are good for now is digging something out of the soil and exporting it to buy it back in products made overseas.

Agree, but I will say this.

Walk around shops OS and the number of things made in Australia will sunrise you. Supermarkets in Dubai put a flag in fresh food with its country of origin. then walk through the packaged areas, still alot of Aussie made.

We are doing a major Software upgrade project at work, nearly all the bidders were Aussie! Peope think IT and immediately think of India, yes, if its Windows or similar, but once its gets into complicated and purpose built software, its very much western with some back door Indian.

Same theme that usually happens across most industries, low cost product, Asia, high cost/complex product, usually Western. This is where Western education and culture often still outdoes Asian/Sub-cont. Better out box thinking, more real life hands on experience and education, ie we play with toys and work on cars etc, more independent, better self managed, not afraid to be smarter than your boss and your boss is usually supportive and sees your achievements as a reward of their leadership, not a threat.

Making Cars, fridges, model trains, refectory bricks, answering phones, back end engineering, Windows/MS programming etc now fall outside the bounds of feasible productivity of western countries however the concept, design, QC and Management is usually outside the Asian culture.

True - at the present time.  But with a future shift away from fossil-fuel generated electricity, EVs will eventually make much more sense for most people.

The shift away from fossil fuels is not expected to start making an impact on oil production for 10-15 years. If anyone expects Australia to be part of that they need to sort out the power sector first.

A Nissan Leaf is around 17kW/100km, if you are in Don Dunstanville your paying close to 50c/kWh or more or $6/100km

A Yaris is around 6L/100km $9/100km

Unfortunately ALP or LNP, neither have a solution on the table to resolve the power price issue, only to entrench the status quo.

"Dunstanville"- what an awesome name for a new suburb in Radelaide.  Very marketable.

I'm not a fan of One Nation and will never vote for them, but I have to say that Mark Latham's maiden speech in the NSW Upper House yesterday was quite something (even if I disagree with some of it):
https://www.scribd.com/document/409210571/Mark-Latham-s-maiden-speech-to-NSW-Legislative-Council

I haven't spent much time listening to Mark L in recent years but I hear he's turned a new leaf from his heavy hand shake days with Howard. Howard was also a reborn politician to make a comeback be one of Australia's longest and more successful PM's (yes I hear Freightgate and others eyes burning) so perhaps Mark will do the same.

Like LNP, there are I'm sue many members who are frustrated with the lack of evolution in the party to keep up with the new generation expectations, ALP too has many frustrated with the influence the unions still have, too closely linked with extremist Greenies etc.

I'm sure with the right leadership a new party could emerge to be more moderate of both parties. Unfortunately the Democrats died with Don and Hanson is not and will never be a Leader of the average Aussie.

I'm not a fan of One Nation and will never vote for them, but I have to say that Mark Latham's maiden speech in the NSW Upper House yesterday was quite something (even if I disagree with some of it)

Mark Latham is interested in publicity for Mark Latham and a cushy job where he can make a noise, knowing that he'll never actually have to do anything. First it was the ALP, now it's ON. He reminds me of Grouch Marx, "Those are my principles and if  you don't like them, I have others."