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Watco wins GrainCorp's Queensland contract

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      The_trolley Deputy Commissioner

    Location: Banned
    The diagram posted on the NRE site shows the same suspension arrangements as an 1100. The diagram seems to show the 5650 bogie frame as well.

    Other than the 12 cylinder 645 as opposed to a 16 and the use of GE traction motors in place of refurbed EMD gear; you’re looking at a narrow gauge 1100 class or bog standard GT clone.

    God speed is all I can say.
    Posted: 21 Nov 2018 17:59

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      jmt Deputy Commissioner

    The diagram posted on the NRE site shows the same suspension arrangements as an 1100. The diagram seems to show the 5650 bogie frame as well.

    Other than the 12 cylinder 645 as opposed to a 16 and the use of GE traction motors in place of refurbed EMD gear; you’re looking at a narrow gauge 1100 class or bog standard GT clone.

    God speed is all I can say.
    The_trolley
    The "GE" 764 traction motors will carry NRE plates, but will be from China, in all probability from Yongji Xinshisu Electric Equipment Co., Ltd.
    Posted: 21 Nov 2018 18:48

    Last edited by jmt on 24 Nov 2018 15:48; edited 1 time in total
      The_trolley Deputy Commissioner

    Location: Banned
    Is that the same China based supplier who has been supplying traction motors to KiwiRail for the past decade or so? I know the GE DX’s definitely and possibly some of the GM’s types as well have been recieving Chinese copy traction motors for some time now.

    Speaking from experience with most things NRE, the refurbished genuine and copy components that make up the bulk of the locomotive won’t give trouble if they recieve adequate attention before being installed as part of the 75% copied from the EMD catalog (AR10, 645, what little EMD switchgear NRE uses etc). How the 25% drawn from NRE (generally the electrical system) is going to be interesting to watch though.
    Posted: 23 Nov 2018 14:02
      jmt Deputy Commissioner

    Buga is a town in the area serviced by the FDP

    The spec was 7FDL-12/AR10/764. NRE offer a Chinese clone "GE" 764 traction motor, NR-764
    https://www.nre.com/parts/traction-motor   download the .pdf

    761 is too wide for 36" track. Think of 764 as the equivalent to the CD-36 built by Clyde. EMD only built a single order with D-36 traction motors, in GR12 for Colombia.

    Both Knoxville Loco Works and NRE offer patented bolt on front bearing carriers to convert the AR10 for use with GE and MTU (via ZF reduction box) engines
    Posted: 23 Nov 2018 18:02

    Last edited by jmt on 23 Nov 2018 18:31; edited 2 times in total
      neillfarmer Chief Train Controller

    ooops , forgot to ask , , are they AC or DC traction motors ?  I'm guessing DC.
    GS4
    GE764 traction motors are a DC machine. Those locos look like they are QR 23 class equivalents.
    Posted: 23 Nov 2018 23:55
      Jack Le Lievre Assistant Commissioner

    Location: Moolap Station, Vic
    News from NRE regarding the locomotive design for the Queensland Watco/GrainCorp contract.

    https://www.nre.com/news/international-spotlight-new-class-locomotives-australia
    Posted: 28 Nov 2018 10:21
      Graham4405 The Ghost of George Stephenson

    Location: Dalby Qld
    News from NRE regarding the locomotive design for the Queensland Watco/GrainCorp contract.

    https://www.nre.com/news/international-spotlight-new-class-locomotives-australia
    Jack Le Lievre
    The same link that was posted in this thread 8 days ago!
    Posted: 28 Nov 2018 14:56
      Sulla1 Chief Commissioner

    The latest news from GrainCorp's Facebook page this morning -


    "New locomotives and wagons are coming to the GrainCorp network in Queensland later this year.
    Engineered and built at National Rail and Equipment in Mt Vernon, Illinois, eight new 2175-horsepower locomotives are being developed specifically for Queensland’s narrow-gauge rail and weight limitations.
    Each train will consist of a locomotive at the front and back of up to 42 wagons, with both locomotives ‘talking’ to each other via an electronic Wired Distributive Power system to ensure they work together efficiently.
    The locos come equipped with N’compass software, providing GPS tracking while monitoring the running performance of each loco.
    A digital tracking system will give GrainCorp site and terminal staff visibility (or SMS notifications) of arrival times.
    On top of this, 128 GrainCorp-branded grain hopper wagons have begun assembly.
    The wagons are bolted together from lightweight aluminium to get down to the axle loads permitted on Queensland’s rail lines. Each is watertight and carries a payload of 46.6 tonnes.
    Two prototype wagons arrive in Queensland in May for testing – and we can't wait to see them!"



    Posted: 03 Apr 2019 10:40
      Graham4405 The Ghost of George Stephenson

    Location: Dalby Qld
    128 wagons gives 3 x 42 wagon consists with 2 spare wagons. 2 locos per consist would require 6 locos, so there are 2 spare locos.
    Posted: 03 Apr 2019 12:38
      M636C Minister for Railways

    On top of this, 128 GrainCorp-branded grain hopper wagons have begun assembly.
    The wagons are bolted together from lightweight aluminium to get down to the axle loads permitted on Queensland’s rail lines. Each is watertight and carries a payload of 46.6 tonnes.



    Pacific National some years ago obtained two coal hoppers with aluminium body panels on a steel frame built in the USA.

    These used "huckbolts" to attach the panels to the frame. these are basically very large pop rivets although they look a little like bolts....

    I guess this is one of the ways they do things in the USA.

    Peter
    Posted: 03 Apr 2019 23:50

    Last edited by M636C on 03 Apr 2019 23:51; edited 1 time in total
      Graham4405 The Ghost of George Stephenson

    Location: Dalby Qld
    An interesting little snippet in the SDSR May 2019 Newsletter:

    We are informed that they (Watco) have been successful in obtaining five 2100 class locos from South Africa that initially will be based here in Warwick. The locos will be checked over for mainline use in Queensland and painted in their company colours of black and yellow.
    SDSR
    Posted: 09 May 2019 21:53
      Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

    Location: On a Thing with Internet
    An interesting little snippet in the SDSR May 2019 Newsletter:

    We are informed that they (Watco) have been successful in obtaining five 2100 class locos from South Africa that initially will be based here in Warwick. The locos will be checked over for mainline use in Queensland and painted in their company colours of black and yellow.
    Graham4405
    re-importing locos, that's a tad funny
    Posted: 10 May 2019 07:58
      jmt Deputy Commissioner

    re-importing locos, that's a tad funny
    Dangersdan707

    Why?

    Even with a round trip freight bill of around $225k per loco, will have been heaps cheaper to have rebuilt in SA using labour that earns less than coastal China rates, than rebuilding in Australia. I am surprised that more locos are not shipped offshore for rebuild.

    Locos are in NRZ livery with modified coupler height. Zim deal went sour so resold. Weight for Zimbabwe would have been dropped to 96 tonnes.
    Posted: 10 May 2019 11:36
      jmt Deputy Commissioner

    I guess the 2100's could also be remanufactured into 2700's at Redbank.
    GS4
    Get rapidly real.
    Don't you look on US sites? Watco have well earned reputation as cheapskates, the El Zoro of US railroading.
    They are a private company, surviving on borrowed capital, unlike G&W who are public, mid tier, with a shareholders base to call on for capital.
    Watco's geriatric fleet of GP/SD 7 and 9 have the local foamers creaming their jeans.
    The locos in SA have already been rebuilt for Progress Rail under subcontract at Boksburg.
    Why would you rebuild a just rebuilt loco?

    There are images of the units here

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvgdWtXz974, skip the add, and a blowhard politician Open at 2:00
    Also https://www.engineeringnews.co.za/article/tmh-africa-unveils-rolling-stock-manufacturing-facility-2019-05-02

    Also numerous photos on Facebook groups
    Posted: 10 May 2019 16:24

    Last edited by jmt on 10 May 2019 16:37; edited 1 time in total
      Sulla1 Chief Commissioner

    ???   Sooooooo are the NRE locos still coming ?  

    I guess the 2100's could also be remanufactured into 2700's at Redbank.
    GS4

    The NRE locos are currently under construction with at least three frames underway at Paducah...the South African purchase just gets Watco on the ground running sooner, and probably provides more flexibility for growth with 13 locos on the books.
    Posted: 10 May 2019 17:14

    Last edited by Sulla1 on 10 May 2019 17:15; edited 1 time in total
      M636C Minister for Railways

    The locomotives illustrated in the video clip are 2250 class (including 2275).
    These would be too heavy for many grain lines unless their weight has been reduced, by removal of ballast.

    The good news is that they have the 12-645E3 engine proposed for the new  NREC locomotives....

    Peter
    Posted: 10 May 2019 17:31
      Graham4405 The Ghost of George Stephenson

    Location: Dalby Qld
    The locomotives illustrated in the video clip are 2250 class (including 2275).
    These would be too heavy for many grain lines unless their weight has been reduced, by removal of ballast.

    The good news is that they have the 12-645E3 engine proposed for the new  NREC locomotives....

    Peter
    M636C
    Perhaps they aren't the ones purchased by Watco Australia? There may be 2100s not shown in the video.
    Posted: 10 May 2019 22:36

    Last edited by Graham4405 on 10 May 2019 22:37; edited 1 time in total
      Graham4405 The Ghost of George Stephenson

    Location: Dalby Qld
    An interesting little snippet in the SDSR May 2019 Newsletter:

    We are informed that they (Watco) have been successful in obtaining five 2100 class locos from South Africa that initially will be based here in Warwick. The locos will be checked over for mainline use in Queensland and painted in their company colours of black and yellow.
    Could have swapped them for some EMU's !!

    Smile
    GS4
    Umm, Watco don't own any EMUs??
    Posted: 10 May 2019 22:38
      jmt Deputy Commissioner

    The 2250 contain around 14 tonnes of easily removable ballast. Redbank apparently cut plate and scrap rail to fit, rather than backing up a readymix concrete truck.

    The 3 that TE are rebuilding for DP World (2257/2266/2270) are to have 11 tonnes removed, with a target weight of 99 tonnes. These will be metre gauge for use in Mali and Senegal.

    The 5 rebuilt for PR at Boksburg (2260/2261/2262/2269/2275) are said to be down to 96 tonnes. Zimbabwe was the intended customer (hence the NRZ livery), so locos in the 96 tonne range would have matched their existing GT22LC-2 fleet.
    Posted: 10 May 2019 23:37

    Last edited by jmt on 11 May 2019 00:52; edited 1 time in total
      jmt Deputy Commissioner

    Refer Motive Power #107 Sept/Oct 2016 for a list of numbers.

    Transnet had imported 20 2250 as rebuild core for subsidiary Transnet Engineering in October 2014 (plus 14 2170 for use by Transnet Freight Rail).

    These units were unsalable until Zuma was given the boot in February 2018. By selling the locos to a BEE while still on the wharf in Brisbane, then purchasing back ex wharf Durban, the cost was inflated from $220K to $500k per unit. The ANC cadre and apparatchiks managing Transnet pocketed around $200k kickback per loco. The core (with a book value of $500k/unit) was gracefully rusting away parked close to the beach at Wentworth (Durban), TE unable to get the rebuild price down to a competitive level.

    One of incoming President Cyril Ramaphosa's first tasks was to sack the Zuma appointed Transnet board, and the senior apparatchiks (who were all members of Zuma's faction). The book value of their 2250 has now been written down to realistic levels.

    $200K per loco was chicken feed to Zuma. CRRC (and predecessor companies) kicked back $US770k per loco on around 440 electrics and the 35 Diesels (20 imports plus 15 CKD kits) to Zuma's son Duduzane and Indian associates via front companies in Dubai. So there are rich pickings for politicians in South Africa as well as Malaysia.

    If you follow South African activity on any of the SA railfan Facebook Groups, all of TFR's 2170 can be accounted for. Two cannibalised for parts (2174/2202) stored Bellville, 2 with the evaluation and test group at Pyramid South/Koedoespoort (2171/2210). The balance of 10 are allocated to the Bellville Shed at Cape Town for use over light track in the Western Cape. At least 4 of the Bellville locos are currently at Koedoespoort on hold for potential hire to NRZ (2177/2180/2188 plus one other).

    The balance of the corporate owned ex Qld GL26C/GL22C (and those resold to countries to the north) are accounted for, SAFLog have  6, Rovos 9, Makomo Resources (Zim) 4,  SCTP (DRC) 2, Plus 2156/2162 thought to be with track contractor Moto-Engil in Moz/Malawi.

    BEE https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Economic_Empowerment
    Posted: 11 May 2019 00:46

    Last edited by jmt on 14 May 2019 13:19; edited 3 times in total
      qldchook Locomotive Driver

    Brand new grain wagons have been unloaded at Brisbane Fisherman Islands!
    Posted: 12 Jun 2019 20:08
      jmt Deputy Commissioner
    Posted: 15 Jun 2019 19:02
      Jack Le Lievre Assistant Commissioner

    Location: Moolap Station, Vic
    https://www.watcocompanies.com/news/dispatch/
    The Dispatch, Volume 20, Issue 5 - May 2019

    Cab image on page 4
    jmt
    Looks similar to the E.M.D. Cabs on the GT42CU-AC/GT42CU-ACe
    Posted: 15 Jun 2019 20:53
      Sulla1 Chief Commissioner

    Railway Digest is reporting Watco's secondhand locomotives coming from South Africa are 2260-2262, 2269 and 2275. These were purchased by Progress and it is believed these have heen lightened from their original 110-tonnes for a contract in Zimbabwe that did not eventuate.
    Posted: 16 Jun 2019 06:12
      bingley hall Minister for Railways

    Location: Last train to Skaville
    Railway Digest is reporting Watco's secondhand locomotives coming from South Africa are 2260-2262, 2269 and 2275. These were purchased by Progress and it is believed these have heen lightened from their original 110-tonnes for a contract in Zimbabwe that did not eventuate.
    Sulla1

    Strongly rumoured to be on a boat from South Africa arriving in Port Adelaide tomorrow. Next port of call - Brisbane.
    Posted: 25 Jun 2019 17:29

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