E class tram routes

 
  Heihachi_73 Chief Commissioner

Location: Terminating at Ringwood
The pessimist in me says that the remaining Es will all go to the same three routes the rest are on, with no changes whatsoever to the rest of the network until DDA day in 2032 where there will either be a massive rush to scrap everything with steps (and leaving us with a lack of trams), or yet another DDA exemption pushing the date to 2050 and beyond.

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  Obzerva Station Master

Location: #6 / Glen Waverley line
If Malvern were to take 100% operation of the 58 with only Z3's and D1's, people will complain not having B2's on the route, and personally I find D1's are the worst tram introduced in Melbourne with their smaller size and small number of seats. A B2 can carry more passengers, not sure what M>Tram was thinking when they ordered those D trams from Siemens.

And having constant Z3's on route 58 isn't cutting it either, people complained about it back then when route 58 was created with frequent Z3's on the route because Essendon transferred some of their B2's to Brunswick and Glenhuntly resulting in a shortage of B2's. Not sure if Malvern taking over the whole operation of 58 is a good idea.
Hey all,
          If Brunswick were to take on the whole routes 6 then most of the D1's could be used on the 58.The plan as far as i recall was to have some of the extra E's on order to go to Southbank to help with the 58,wherever it runs from,but according to various people Southbank does not have room for any Extra E's.That is why i suggested running the route 12 via Latrobe stand sharing it with Kew along with some A's thus eliminating route 30 and transferring some more A's out thus creating room for more E's even possibly storing some of the worst Z3's and replacing them with A's.You could still potentially have some B2's on the 58 as the 57 would only need 6 -8 B Class to start with which would be enough to help with the loading.Weekend services could be all B Class as there would be less trams on the road but to be run via Flemington rd.
tram1041

I actually don't mind the idea of running the 12 via La Trobe instead of Collins at all.

Would give La Trobe a more useful service rather than just the current route 30 and would also reinstate a service that runs the full length of Spencer St.
Additional trams could still run on La Trobe to go to Marvel Stadium at game/event times.

Let's be honest the 12 doesn't add a hell of a lot of capacity to Collins St at the moment given they're A class trams.
  Heihachi_73 Chief Commissioner

Location: Terminating at Ringwood
The 12 has gone full circle. From W and Z classes in the old days, B2s (and the odd A, B1, C1 or even D1/D2) when it became the 112, and then back to the 12 running the small trams again (A classes this time, although Z3s and D1s were actually running to Victoria Gardens early on).
  John.Z Assistant Commissioner

Yarra trams need to have a good look at how many trams they run up Swanston and down Collins sts.

Need to re-route at least one if not two additional swanston st trams up william st and terminate at queen vic markets/hospital precinct. Could even run a double service along the 19

Need to join the 78 to the 12 or the 30, and re-route the 12 via La Trobe st.
  mike49 Locomotive Fireman

Yarra trams need to have a good look at how many trams they run up Swanston and down Collins sts.

Need to re-route at least one if not two additional swanston st trams up william st and terminate at queen vic markets/hospital precinct. Could even run a double service along the 19

Need to join the 78 to the 12 or the 30, and re-route the 12 via La Trobe st.
John.Z
Collins Street services are already overcrowded for much of the day, moving the 12 would only make the problem worse.
  John.Z Assistant Commissioner

Collins Street services are already overcrowded for much of the day, moving the 12 would only make the problem worse.
mike49
Trams are overcrowded due to the FTZ. Get rid of that and see space open up.
  Heihachi_73 Chief Commissioner

Location: Terminating at Ringwood
Or just get the trams running more frequently if we can't get any bigger trams. As I have mentioned elsewhere, small trams only run well when they are right up the asre of another, assuming people aren't brain-dead and cram onto the very first one while the rest are practically empty. Given that you have a 70% chance of copping an A class sardine can on Collins St, they need to be a lot more frequent.
  tram1041 Station Master

Yarra trams need to have a good look at how many trams they run up Swanston and down Collins sts.

Need to re-route at least one if not two additional swanston st trams up william st and terminate at queen vic markets/hospital precinct. Could even run a double service along the 19

Need to join the 78 to the 12 or the 30, and re-route the 12 via La Trobe st.
John.Z
Totally agree with this the 12 must go via Latrobe st,i have been saying this all along,you can then either scrap the route 30 altogether as the 86 covers the last bit of Latrobe st anyway,or join it up to another route to maybe bring a new  route into docklands maybe it could turn left at William st and join up with either the 57 or 59  via Haymarket Peel & William st,no new infrastructure needed.Also there does need to be at least 1 possibly 2 Swanston st routes moved to William st full time,but maybe terminate not at Queen Vic but maybe Childrens Hospital,or Flemington and Racecourse rds.As for the 78 ialways thought that the best for this would be to run to join up with either the old 69 or the route 72 to maybe Camberwell junction or even Gardiner and then run the 72 from the city to Gardiner,less running time less delays a better service.
  route14 Chief Commissioner

The diverted route 59 and old route 58 (City via Nth Melb to Showgrounds) both have had B class traveling through the North Melbourne section, so there isn't any technical problem running B class on route 57.  What I'm more concerned is the higher risk of vandalism along the reserved track which has been reported in the past.  With Z class there is less to lose.  Perhaps some localers can give us an idea of how frequent vandalism happens in that area.
  Mr. Lane Chief Commissioner

Yarra trams need to have a good look at how many trams they run up Swanston and down Collins sts.

Need to re-route at least one if not two additional swanston st trams up william st and terminate at queen vic markets/hospital precinct. Could even run a double service along the 19

Need to join the 78 to the 12 or the 30, and re-route the 12 via La Trobe st.
Totally agree with this the 12 must go via Latrobe st,i have been saying this all along,you can then either scrap the route 30 altogether as the 86 covers the last bit of Latrobe st anyway,or join it up to another route to maybe bring a new  route into docklands maybe it could turn left at William st and join up with either the 57 or 59  via Haymarket Peel & William st,no new infrastructure needed.
tram1041
I wouldn't move the 12 from Collins until the 109 is running the E class, then sure replace the 30 with it. The southern end of the 12 still needs to head down to St. Kilda.
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

Route 12 and Route 30 are fine where they are. Capacity along Collins and La Trobe Streets will have to be re-thought when they become interchanges for Metro Tunnel stations Town Hall and State Library respectively.
  True Believers Chief Commissioner

https://www.premier.vic.gov.au/testing-our-largest-trams-on-route-58/
Confirmed that route 58 is next to receive E-class trams
  CraigieburnLineUser Locomotive Fireman

https://www.premier.vic.gov.au/testing-our-largest-trams-on-route-58/
Confirmed that route 58 is next to receive E-class trams
True Believers
Any idea which depot they will be going to and how many E-Classes the 58 will use?
  tram1041 Station Master

https://www.premier.vic.gov.au/testing-our-largest-trams-on-route-58/
Confirmed that route 58 is next to receive E-class trams
Any idea which depot they will be going to and how many E-Classes the 58 will use?
CraigieburnLineUser
They are to run out of Southbank.The current plan as far as i know is to have them run on the runs that are now run by Malvern D1's to allow these to return to the other Malvern routes to be able to provide a more consistent service.Apparently at the moment there is no space at either Malvern or Essendon to take extra trams.Things will change from next year once Bwk depot gets more roads and the thought is that they will take over the whole of route 6 freeing up space at Malvern.Hopefully with introduction of E's to the 58 we will see the cascade of some B's onto the 57 down the track.
  slowcoach Junior Train Controller

They'll need to build DDA-compliant platform stops at South Yarra Station, from Domain Interchange / Wells St to Queen Victoria Market, and from Royal Children's Hospital to West Coburg terminus to make E-class trams on Route 58 useful.

Just curious, is it a coincidence this announcement has come on the same day as the announcement of 3-month closure of the Upfield Line in the 2nd half of 2020 to remove 4 level crossings from Moreland to Coburg?
  route14 Chief Commissioner

Tram 1041: You mean E class will run out of Southbank to form route 58 services?  With the Bourke and William Sts curve removed during the platform stop construction there will be a lot of dead runs, or have the curves been reinstated?
  slowcoach Junior Train Controller

Tram 1041: You mean E class will run out of Southbank to form route 58 services?  With the Bourke and William Sts curve removed during the platform stop construction there will be a lot of dead runs, or have the curves been reinstated?
route14
I think the only access from Southbank Tram Depot to William St is via Spencer St and then La Trobe St until Flagstaff Station.
  tram1041 Station Master

Tram 1041: You mean E class will run out of Southbank to form route 58 services?  With the Bourke and William Sts curve removed during the platform stop construction there will be a lot of dead runs, or have the curves been reinstated?
route14
According to the press release every possible route option is to be tested in case of disruptions,access to routes from the depot to work out the bugs if any.Also i have been told that when the E's start it is to be run with Southbank,Essendon & Hub drivers.The access to the 58 will be via Spencer,Latrobe into William st,or via 96,Fitzroy st,St Kilda rd,or just build the missing link in Park st.
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

The connections at the intersection of William and La Trobe Streets are in the northwest and southeast corners. Southbank trams requiring access to or from the south would need to run along La Trobe Street to the library and reverse, or turn into William Street and reverse at the Peel Street sidings. The sidings would probably have to be modified to accommodate longer trams such as the E-Class. The next crossover is nearly at Flemington Road. A connection in the southwest could be added or Bourke Street’s southwest reinstated.
  tram1041 Station Master

The connections at the intersection of William and La Trobe Streets are in the northwest and southeast corners. Southbank trams requiring access to or from the south would need to run along La Trobe Street to the library and reverse, or turn into William Street and reverse at the Peel Street sidings. The sidings would probably have to be modified to accommodate longer trams such as the E-Class. The next crossover is nearly at Flemington Road. A connection in the southwest could be added or Bourke Street’s southwest reinstated.
kitchgp
Yes the west to north curves will give direct access from Latrobe st towards West Coburg without having to reverse anywhere and if Toorak bound is needed they can shunt at Dudley st.William St is having major work done late november,early december from Flinders Lane to Dudley st,which includes platform stops,trackwork and hopefully some attention at Dudley st shunt.The west to north curves are on the Spencer st side of William st.
  route14 Chief Commissioner

A link between Whiteman St. reservation and Park St. would be ideal, but the likelihood of this happening is about the same as the long talked about having New Preston operating Brunswick routes with depot access tracks laid along Normanby Ave. and Moreland Rd. because it would be a section of tracks without revenue service.  A less expensive option would be a pair of west-south curves at Collins and William Sts. (since the ones at Bourke & William is gone anyway) and a pair of west-north curves at LaTrobe and William.  Shunting at the Dudley St. siding incurs too much dead run and wastes time if you have to do a block car urgently.  Shunting at the siding also requires moving across motor vehicle lanes, just like shunting at the Simpson St. siding.  Something new for motorists born in the recent three decades to expect.
  Chrono Detector Assistant Commissioner

Location: Tram 57/59
Interesting to see that route 58 will be the next route for E trams to operate. So once Southbank begins operating their E trams Malvern will cease operations on route 58 once there is enough E trams running on the route right?

I would have expected Essendon to receive E trams but it's not surprising since it is a small depot and they lack the adequate space to house such larger trams.
  tram1041 Station Master

A link between Whiteman St. reservation and Park St. would be ideal, but the likelihood of this happening is about the same as the long talked about having New Preston operating Brunswick routes with depot access tracks laid along Normanby Ave. and Moreland Rd. because it would be a section of tracks without revenue service.  A less expensive option would be a pair of west-south curves at Collins and William Sts. (since the ones at Bourke & William is gone anyway) and a pair of west-north curves at LaTrobe and William.  Shunting at the Dudley St. siding incurs too much dead run and wastes time if you have to do a block car urgently.  Shunting at the siding also requires moving across motor vehicle lanes, just like shunting at the Simpson St. siding.  Something new for motorists born in the recent three decades to expect.
route14
Hey all,
         I was more thinking of finishing the link in Park st between Clarendon st  & Kingsway and maybe have some S-E curves at Clarendon & Park.As for William & Latrobe there are already W-N curves in place.I agree with you on the New Preston trackwork all of the four options were great,but unfortunately Normanby Ave between the golf course and St.Georges rd is too narrow for two tracks and is a traffic headache there most of the time especially with the buses and parked cars either side.
  tram1041 Station Master

Interesting to see that route 58 will be the next route for E trams to operate. So once Southbank begins operating their E trams Malvern will cease operations on route 58 once there is enough E trams running on the route right?

I would have expected Essendon to receive E trams but it's not surprising since it is a small depot and they lack the adequate space to house such larger trams.
Chrono Detector
Hey all,
         The plan is from what i was told is that route 58 will have Essendon,Southbank & Hub drivers operating the service.At fist the E's will initially replace the Malvern D1's to enable Malvern to provide a more consistent service,and as for the other Malvern runs i am not sure but i would think they would cease as well.The talk is also that with the new roads and increased storage being built at Bwk next year is that they will take over full operation of route 6,thus leaving Malvern to run 5,16 & 72.Also the timeline for the Z3 withdrawl is supposed to start in 2022/3 and given the way that Yarra handles these things,i think that changes must start now to avoid problems down the track.I would love to see Essendon get some E Class and have always said that if they dedicated the 6 outside roads you could get at least 10-12,but that would require moving out some trams but everywhere else is at capacity apparently.Most Essendon drivers have already been trained on the E's according to reports and it would be nice to see something other than B's running on the 59 with B's cascaded to the 57.The other thing as far as the 58 goes it will see a huge jump in passengers late next year when the Upfield line is shut for 3 months for level crossing removal works,so the E's will definately  be very handy.
  route14 Chief Commissioner

In this regard it would be more logical to deploy E class on route 19 which parallels the Upfield line most of the way.  If Southbank was to do it you'll just need a west to south right turn curve at Collins & Elizabeth.  There is an existing south to west left turn curve at Elizabeth & LaTrobe for trams to car in, but with modification to V-tag point and white left turn arrow.  Given the proximity to the Sir Robert Risson terminus all runs can commence and finish at City.  It will also provide easier routing for Southbank trams to do Optus Oval, Showground and Flemington Racecourse extras.  Brunswick can take up all runs of route 6 with D2 which will free up some B class for Essendon to run route 57 and 58.  If Malvern is relieved of route 6 runs it probably won't be short of the 10 D1 class.

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