The XPT doesn't go in to the city in the morning like the bullet does. I still believe a more frequent local service between lithgow and bathurst or orange is a better option for a connection to the DD network for this area.

Could this potentially provide a faster service to Sydney considering the better performance of EMU trains compared to DMU's? this could be especially true when the NIF arrives.

Should the stopping pattern be:

Orange
Millthorpe (d)
Blayney (d)
Bathurst
Tarana (d)
Rydal (d)
Wallerawang (d)
Lithgow
---change for electric service---
Katoomba
Penrith
Parramatta
Central

I would hope that any timed gained stopped at Tarana, Rydal, or Wallerawang would be saved back with the faster acceleration of an electric train.
Given that Lithgow is an island platform, changing trains should be relatively easy.

In a rare form of unity I strongly agree that the DMU should be an all out all change at Lithgow to an express spark which also has its own connections with all stoppers at Katoomba and Penrith and what ever other station there is sufficient demand for those boarding west of Lithgow. An all stopper from Lithgow can follow the express.

This would enable the DMU to spend its day doing shuttles in locations where it belongs, low density traffic without Overhead. Not running a 2 car diesel through to the city.

The same argument is used by the govt on the south main and south coast.

and yes, if the train starts at Bathurst then start the train from Bathurst, not pay for the train to be shuttle the train 65km twice a day from Lithgow. Its would be alot cheaper for the govt to pay for the drivers to be taxi'ed to Bathurst than the 1L/km/car for the train to run empty if they cannot base the drivers in Bathurst.

The XPT doesn't go in to the city in the morning like the bullet does. I still believe a more frequent local service between lithgow and bathurst or orange is a better option for a connection to the DD network for this area.

Could this potentially provide a faster service to Sydney considering the better performance of EMU trains compared to DMU's? this could be especially true when the NIF arrives.

Should the stopping pattern be:

Orange
Millthorpe (d)
Blayney (d)
Bathurst
Tarana (d)
Rydal (d)
Wallerawang (d)
Lithgow
---change for electric service---
Katoomba
Penrith
Parramatta
Central

I would hope that any timed gained stopped at Tarana, Rydal, or Wallerawang would be saved back with the faster acceleration of an electric train.
Given that Lithgow is an island platform, changing trains should be relatively easy.

In a rare form of unity I strongly agree that the DMU should be an all out all change at Lithgow to an express spark which also has its own connections with all stoppers at Katoomba and Penrith and what ever other station there is sufficient demand for those boarding west of Lithgow. An all stopper from Lithgow can follow the express.

This would enable the DMU to spend its day doing shuttles in locations where it belongs, low density traffic without Overhead. Not running a 2 car diesel through to the city.

The same argument is used by the govt on the south main and south coast.

and yes, if the train starts at Bathurst then start the train from Bathurst, not pay for the train to be shuttle the train 65km twice a day from Lithgow. Its would be alot cheaper for the govt to pay for the drivers to be taxi'ed to Bathurst than the 1L/km/car for the train to run empty if they cannot base the drivers in Bathurst.

I disagree with terminating the train at Lithgow as I would not trust sydney trains to keep the spark train express.

As a long time Southern Highlands line user I have seen the action of terminating the southern highlands trains at Campbelltown whilst a semi express electric train was timetabled from Macarthur or campbelltown to be the replacement of the diesels continuing onto the city.  

This did not last long and now the southern highlands line passengers have to rely on the regular Macarthur Trains that stop at many more stations.  Many years later people are still campaigning for a through service.  

Journey times on the Southern highlands line to the city were quicker in the time of steam!

Kind Regards

Does Raglan station still exist? I remember the rail cars from Lithgow stopping there in the 80s but you never hear about Raglan station any more. Not even on this forum where every other station in the world gets a run.

As an aside, I’ll always associate trains in this neck of the woods with hot milky coffee on cold nights in that old railway refreshment room at Lithgow, then scoring a dog box for the run west to school

As a long time Southern Highlands line user I have seen the action of terminating the southern highlands trains at Campbelltown whilst a semi express electric train was timetabled from Macarthur or campbelltown to be the replacement of the diesels continuing onto the city.  

This did not last long and now the southern highlands line passengers have to rely on the regular Macarthur Trains that stop at many more stations.  Many years later people are still campaigning for a through service.  

Journey times on the Southern highlands line to the city were quicker in the time of steam!

Kind Regards

I totally agree.  A through express service to Sydney from Orange/Bathurst, particularly in peak hours, has far more appeal for passengers west of Lithgow, than having to freeze your balls off on Lithgow Station in winter, waiting for your connecting service.  I think some underestimate the antipathy towards being forced to change, as has been demonstrated on the Southern Highlands Line.  A through service is more likely to attract greater patronage than a shuttle service.  Perhaps as a compromise, a limited shuttle service could be operated in the off-peak to connect with the electrics at Lithgow.

If and when electrification is extended to Bathurst, and similarly to Goulburn and Bomaderry, as proposed in the long term transport strategy, this won't be an issue and these commuters can then enjoy the same benefits as those on the Blue Mountains and Central Coast/Newcastle Intercity services.

In a rare form of unity I strongly agree that the DMU should be an all out all change at Lithgow to an express spark which also has its own connections with all stoppers at Katoomba and Penrith and what ever other station there is sufficient demand for those boarding west of Lithgow. An all stopper from Lithgow can follow the express.

This would enable the DMU to spend its day doing shuttles in locations where it belongs, low density traffic without Overhead. Not running a 2 car diesel through to the city.

The same argument is used by the govt on the south main and south coast.

and yes, if the train starts at Bathurst then start the train from Bathurst, not pay for the train to be shuttle the train 65km twice a day from Lithgow. Its would be alot cheaper for the govt to pay for the drivers to be taxi'ed to Bathurst than the 1L/km/car for the train to run empty if they cannot base the drivers in Bathurst.

Rare form of unity eh? Anyway, would it also make the trip between Orange/Bathurst to Sydeny faster given the superior performance of EMU's? most likely especially true for the NIF.

I agree with the train starting at Bathurst (or Orange), but is there any place at any of these locations to stable an Endevour? if not, would the cost of building a small siding be worthwhile to cheapen operations be eliminating the empty run between Lithgow and Bathurst.

I totally agree. A through express service to Sydney from Orange/Bathurst, particularly in peak hours, has far more appeal for passengers west of Lithgow, than having to freeze your balls off on Lithgow Station in winter, waiting for your connecting service. I think some underestimate the antipathy towards being forced to change, as has been demonstrated on the Southern Highlands Line. A through service is more likely to attract greater patronage than a shuttle service. Perhaps as a compromise, a limited shuttle service could be operated in the off-peak to connect with the electrics at Lithgow.

If and when electrification is extended to Bathurst, and similarly to Goulburn and Bomaderry, as proposed in the long term transport strategy, this won't be an issue and these commuters can then enjoy the same benefits as those on the Blue Mountains and Central Coast/Newcastle Intercity services.

Who said anything about freezing your balls off at Lithgow Station waiting for the connecting service? the EMU should be there waiting at Lithgow when the DMU arrives, and once all have transfered (should only take a minute), it's 'doors closing, please stand clear' and off to the city.

The Southern Highlands change is completely different, it's not cross platform, there is waiting for the connecting service, and the connection is a suburban train with suburban stopping patterns and suburban crowding.

I agree with the train starting at Bathurst (or Orange), but is there any place at any of these locations to stable an Endevour?

Bathurst yard is quite big and there is likely a location with a spare siding that is able to be reclaimed and installed a security fence with security cameras similar to that at Armidale and Canberra.

Who said anything about freezing your balls off at Lithgow Station waiting for the connecting service? the EMU should be there waiting at Lithgow when the DMU arrives, and once all have transfered (should only take a minute), it's 'doors closing, please stand clear' and off to the city.

The Southern Highlands change is completely different, it's not cross platform, there is waiting for the connecting service, and the connection is a suburban train with suburban stopping patterns and suburban crowding.

You say the connecting EMU at Lithgow "should" be there, but that's by no means certain.  In any event, it's irrelevant because the through Bullet express service in peak hours is going to be far more attractive than being forced to change to what is likely to be a slower journey on the EMU stopping at more stations through the Blue Mountains.  I can't see the logic of running a separate EMU "express".

The same principle applies on the Southern Highlands Line.  I'll wager that an upgraded and more frequent through service from the Southern Highlands to Central would increase patronage significantly.

Once the new regional fleet is operational the Xplorers will be used for local shuttles while the new trains will run in to and out of Sydney in the peak hours.

Lithgow is also not the same as macarthur and campbelltown. The 2 main south stations have at least 20 trains an hour entering and leaving. Lithgow is lucky to have 2 and so maybe the shuttle could be extended to mt victoria where more DD services are available.

People need to remember that with the Sydney system being so busy that it is extremely inefficient to run a 2-4 car single deck train on a path where an 8 car double deck train could run.

Once the new regional fleet is operational the Xplorers will be used for local shuttles while the new trains will run in to and out of Sydney in the peak hours.

Lithgow is also not the same as macarthur and campbelltown. The 2 main south stations have at least 20 trains an hour entering and leaving. Lithgow is lucky to have 2 and so maybe the shuttle could be extended to mt victoria where more DD services are available.

People need to remember that with the Sydney system being so busy that it is extremely inefficient to run a 2-4 car single deck train on a path where an 8 car double deck train could run.

Electrify to Bathurst then?

Without the Bathurst bullet going through to central you aint got a bathurst bullet.  

People who think an electric train that will run similar stopping pattern from Lithgow are dilusional.  The southern Highlands has been there done that.  Southern Highlands had a better run time in the time of steam.  Dont think it wouldn't happen to the Bathurst Bullet service and become next to obsolete.  You will have people driving to lithgow rather than catch Bathurst Bullet.  It happens now with people driving to Macarthur/Campbelltown from southern Highlands.

Bathurst yard is quite big and there is likely a location with a spare siding that is able to be reclaimed and installed a security fence with security cameras similar to that at Armidale and Canberra.

Well that solves that problem.

Electrify to Bathurst then?

Without the Bathurst bullet going through to central you aint got a bathurst bullet.  

People who think an electric train that will run similar stopping pattern from Lithgow are dilusional.  The southern Highlands has been there done that.  Southern Highlands had a better run time in the time of steam.  Dont think it wouldn't happen to the Bathurst Bullet service and become next to obsolete.  You will have people driving to lithgow rather than catch Bathurst Bullet.  It happens now with people driving to Macarthur/Campbelltown from southern Highlands.

Who said anything about freezing your balls off at Lithgow Station waiting for the connecting service? the EMU should be there waiting at Lithgow when the DMU arrives, and once all have transfered (should only take a minute), it's 'doors closing, please stand clear' and off to the city.

The Southern Highlands change is completely different, it's not cross platform, there is waiting for the connecting service, and the connection is a suburban train with suburban stopping patterns and suburban crowding.

You say the connecting EMU at Lithgow "should" be there, but that's by no means certain. In any event, it's irrelevant because the through Bullet express service in peak hours is going to be far more attractive than being forced to change to what is likely to be a slower journey on the EMU stopping at more stations through the Blue Mountains. I can't see the logic of running a separate EMU "express".

The same principle applies on the Southern Highlands Line. I'll wager that an upgraded and more frequent through service from the Southern Highlands to Central would increase patronage significantly.

I see that a forced change might pose an issue attracting passengers.

Perhaps if it was heavily advertised that changing at Lithgow meant a quicker trip between Bathurst/Orange and Sydney, and more frequent services, it could work.
The logic of running a separate EMU express would be to run more services to Bathurst/Orange without needing more rolling stock.

A through services would definitely attract more passengers on the Southern Highlands Line, the forced change there is a serious issue since it is not a simple cross platform change and does involve freezing on a platform in winter, but the worst issue that the connection to the city is a suburban train with a suburban stopping pattern complete with overcrowding.
Southern Highlands stopping patterns needs to be; Goulburn, all to Moss Vale, all to Macarhur, Campbelltwon, Glendfield, Sydenham, Central

Could electrification to Moss Vale or Goulburn be justifiable? I doubt it could be justifiable to Bathurst or Orange though.

southern highlands had nothing in the time of steam and certainly not the frequency that it has currently. Currently there are over 20 trains a day on a Saturday and over 40 on a weekday and that isn't including the XPT and Xplorer services. Show me a timetable from the steam era when the southern highlands had this many trains operating.

Until such time as these places get an electric train there isn't enough rolling stock to be able to provide these services and go in to the city all the way. I have no problem with the one or 2 peak hour services in to the cbd such as the bullet. But if you think that every train should go in to the city from the southern highlands or Bathurst then that is crazy. There isn't enough people using the trains to do so and therefore a local connection to the electric network should be utilised by people beyond the overhead.

I have no problem with the one or 2 peak hour services in to the cbd such as the bullet.

Those services need to be better timed to be a realistic commute. SN42 currently arrives from Moss Vale/Goulburn after 10am.

I have no problem with the one or 2 peak hour services in to the cbd such as the bullet.

Those services need to be better timed to be a realistic commute. SN42 currently arrives from Moss Vale/Goulburn after 10am.

Quadding from glenfield to macarthur could help that.

A through services would definitely attract more passengers on the Southern Highlands Line, the forced change there is a serious issue since it is not a simple cross platform change and does involve freezing on a platform in winter, but the worst issue that the connection to the city is a suburban train with a suburban stopping pattern complete with overcrowding.
Southern Highlands stopping patterns needs to be; Goulburn, all to Moss Vale, all to Macarhur, Campbelltwon, Glendfield, Sydenham, Central

Could electrification to Moss Vale or Goulburn be justifiable? I doubt it could be justifiable to Bathurst or Orange though.

A through service to Sydney without the need to interchange is always going to be more attractive to commuters who might otherwise drive. Part of the problem is that there are limited paths available in peak hours through the inner city because of the constrained network.  It just demonstrates the need for further amplification of the Sydney Trains' network on the main inner city trunk routes, to cater for an increase in both Intercity and Outer Suburban express services.  The metro expansion alone isn't going to resolve this lack of capacity.

In respect of the Southern Highlands Line, a more logical pattern for a through service, whether DMU or EMU, would be all stations from Goulburn to Mittagong, then express to Macarthur or Campbelltown, Glenfield, Sydenham, Central.  An additional all stations service from Moss Vale to Campbelltown, then Glenfield, Sydenham and Central would run in tandem.  The Canberra Regional Train service will add another layer to this, with limited stops, just as the Dubbo Regional service would on the Western Line.

The government's long term transport strategy proposes extension of electrification to Bomaderry, Goulburn, Bathurst and Maitland.  If and when that eventuates, which will just be a matter of time, then as past history has shown, that with the convenience of a fast through express service to Sydney, patronage will increase exponentially.

I see the point of the anti-connection advocates are calling for but then again is this debate about what we want to see or will see?

Southern Highlands through run to the city in peak is more justified than Bathurst and South Coast as both will use the electrified sections to fill the trains. Additionally, is it smart to run a 2 car train through a network that is already congested.

The Bathurst Bullet relies on few stops to maintain a reasonable about of speed for what is a painfull alignment, the others are not much better. If you look to Germany, from my observation it was quite common to have DMU shuttles on branch lines to the sparked corridors, so it obviously works but its in the delivery that makes the difference.

Yes I think all three should have cross platform connections to a express spark leaving within 5min of arrival and no standing in the weather, VV in reverse. Using a tiered approach the spark can provide a faster connection to stations closer to the city still on the same line. So for example, connection at Katoomba/Penrith, Campbelltown/Revsbry and Wollongong/Waterfall. The Bomberry trains are 20 stops with connection to the, not too bad, but still a few. The longer connection time at Kiama needs improvement which I think will happen post CAF.

I see the point of the anti-connection advocates are calling for but then again is this debate about what we want to see or will see?

Southern Highlands through run to the city in peak is more justified than Bathurst and South Coast as both will use the electrified sections to fill the trains. Additionally, is it smart to run a 2 car train through a network that is already congested.

The Bathurst Bullet relies on few stops to maintain a reasonable about of speed for what is a painfull alignment, the others are not much better. If you look to Germany, from my observation it was quite common to have DMU shuttles on branch lines to the sparked corridors, so it obviously works but its in the delivery that makes the difference.

Yes I think all three should have cross platform connections to a express spark leaving within 5min of arrival and no standing in the weather, VV in reverse. Using a tiered approach the spark can provide a faster connection to stations closer to the city still on the same line. So for example, connection at Katoomba/Penrith, Campbelltown/Revsbry and Wollongong/Waterfall. The Bomberry trains are 20 stops with connection to the, not too bad, but still a few. The longer connection time at Kiama needs improvement which I think will happen post CAF.

The success of the Bathurst Bullet service has been based on the fact that it IS a through express service without the need to interchange to a slower EMU at Lithgow, stopping at more stations through the Blue Mountains.  I'd suggest that a shuttle service wouldn't be as attractive.  Whether it's 2, 4 or 8 cars is irrelevant.  It's providing a more convenient service for Regional commuters and travellers generally.  Bathurst and Orange are cities with populations approaching 40,000 and will continue to grow, especially if transport links with Sydney are improved.

The success of the Bathurst Bullet service has been based on the fact that it IS a through express service without the need to interchange to a slower EMU at Lithgow, stopping at more stations through the Blue Mountains.  I'd suggest that a shuttle service wouldn't be as attractive.  Whether it's 2, 4 or 8 cars is irrelevant.  It's providing a more convenient service for Regional commuters and travellers generally.  Bathurst and Orange are cities with populations approaching 40,000 and will continue to grow, especially if transport links with Sydney are improved.

I never said add more stops in fact I said previously cut Springwood unless this is actually requested. It was mentioned by other that the DMU's performance is likely worse than a EMU, if true then the 3min lost changing trains is likely to be made up if not more so. No I don't want to make the trip longer and if get no.

Its hard to know the success as it didn't operate in the past for along time.

I agree everyone wants a single trip service, but many people in Sydney don't have such a luxury.

The advantage of leaving the DMU in un-wired territory is that the set can be used to boost the number services between Lithgow and Bathurst efficiently.

The single deck DMU is faster in everything but acceleration out of the station. My point however is that with the endeavour in Sydney during the day at eveleigh it can't run local services and so you get your peak hour services but in doing so you forgo any other services between lithgow and bathurst during the day that would be possible if you just connected to the EMU's at Lithgow and Mt Victoria.

I have no problem with the one or 2 peak hour services in to the cbd such as the bullet.

Those services need to be better timed to be a realistic commute. SN42 currently arrives from Moss Vale/Goulburn after 10am.

Quadding from glenfield to macarthur could help that.

Or you could... just start it earlier.

I never said add more stops in fact I said previously cut Springwood unless this is actually requested. It was mentioned by other that the DMU's performance is likely worse than a EMU, if true then the 3min lost changing trains is likely to be made up if not more so. No I don't want to make the trip longer and if get no.

Its hard to know the success as it didn't operate in the past for along time.

I agree everyone wants a single trip service, but many people in Sydney don't have such a luxury.

The advantage of leaving the DMU in un-wired territory is that the set can be used to boost the number services between Lithgow and Bathurst efficiently.

I agree with this 100%

I do see Transtopic's point about the forced change being unattractive to passengers though - if such a service modification would be implemented, it would be important to heavily advertise that the change at Lithgow means more frequent services and a quicker trip to Sydney.
Mabye survey passengers too, ask if they would prefer; (a)2 direct return services a day, or (b) 10 return Lithgow services a day with express EMU connection and quicker overall journey times.

The aspect in all of this is what linkage does the Bullet as the MV services come under, Sydney trains or whoever runs the Interurbans to NCL, Lithgow and to Kiama now?

Bathurst prior to the Bullet would only have a coach connection service to Lithgow, and again under whose brand?, The same set up or who ran the services in the past were considered as part of the Country network trains, as such were bounded by Lithgow, Campbeltown and Sutherland pre Electrification. Newcastle sort of similar as it was part of the interurban services to Gosford which changed when the wires went up to NCL

The only commuter service as such that Moss Vale had was the one down evening service that stopped all stations from Campbelltown, followed by the Southern Highlands exp which dropped carriages off at MV for the morning up service from MV. The down SHE, was more the return commuter service though even though it went to Goulburn with the up service not arriving in Central until around 1000 IIRC.

The bullet as such is promised by the Government to help regional cities, as such they should fall under a country type set up and needs based. As such the only real stops that should be made on it should be Bathurst, Raglan, Wang, Lithgow, Mt Vict, Katoomba, Penrith Parramatta, Strathfield Central, based on what stations survive outside of the metro area, I do not include Blacktown as in country services in the past were non stoppers there, besides if it stops one could guarantee the locals would make it a sardine service.

Someone mentioned Raglan, not sure if the station is there anymore but that was a station that only had one stopping service at it during the Steam days but it was demoted to holiday times only.

I doubt there is any servicing areas left at Bx these days but would one of the DMU's make the return trip without the need to refuel, if so that it could stable at Bx in a secure enclosure. There are no train crews at Bx nor Orange anymore. & I think the Dubbo Xpt is worked by Dubbo crews at least the driver is.

When the new fleet arrives, I would think its possible that the bullet as such could start from Dubbo and run to Sydney, likewise the 2nd service that is in the plans, provides the way of getting the trains to Dubbo for maintenance also.

The aspect in all of this is what linkage does the Bullet as the MV services come under, Sydney trains or whoever runs the Interurbans to NCL, Lithgow and to Kiama now?

Bathurst prior to the Bullet would only have a coach connection service to Lithgow, and again under whose brand?, The same set up or who ran the services in the past were considered as part of the Country network trains, as such were bounded by Lithgow, Campbeltown and Sutherland pre Electrification. Newcastle sort of similar as it was part of the interurban services to Gosford which changed when the wires went up to NCL

The only commuter service as such that Moss Vale had was the one down evening service that stopped all stations from Campbelltown, followed by the Southern Highlands exp which dropped carriages off at MV for the morning up service from MV. The down SHE, was more the return commuter service though even though it went to Goulburn with the up service not arriving in Central until around 1000 IIRC.

The bullet as such is promised by the Government to help regional cities, as such they should fall under a country type set up and needs based. As such the only real stops that should be made on it should be Bathurst, Raglan, Wang, Lithgow, Mt Vict, Katoomba, Penrith Parramatta, Strathfield Central, based on what stations survive outside of the metro area, I do not include Blacktown as in country services in the past were non stoppers there, besides if it stops one could guarantee the locals would make it a sardine service.

Someone mentioned Raglan, not sure if the station is there anymore but that was a station that only had one stopping service at it during the Steam days but it was demoted to holiday times only.

I doubt there is any servicing areas left at Bx these days but would one of the DMU's make the return trip without the need to refuel, if so that it could stable at Bx in a secure enclosure. There are no train crews at Bx nor Orange anymore. & I think the Dubbo Xpt is worked by Dubbo crews at least the driver is.

When the new fleet arrives, I would think its possible that the bullet as such could start from Dubbo and run to Sydney, likewise the 2nd service that is in the plans, provides the way of getting the trains to Dubbo for maintenance also.

Bathurst is considered to be part of the NSW Trainlink Intercity service (previously CityRail), as distinct from the Regional services.  The Bullet is therefore an Intercity service, the same as the DMU from Bomaderry to Kiama and Moss Vale to Macarthur/Campbelltown, although the latter don't run through to Sydney.  Not sure about Goulburn, which is a similar distance from Sydney as Bathurst and has a daily return Explorer service.  Bathurst is much larger than Goulburn, so perhaps it should have a through Explorer service as well.

I don't see the need for a stop at Raglan, if the station still exists, as it's only 5 mins drive from Bathurst Station.  Tarana and Rydal are already stops on request for the Dubbo XPT and these locations would be more appropriate for the Bullet, leaving the XPT and its future replacement as non-stopping express services between Bathurst and Lithgow.  Nor do I see the need for the Bullet to stop at both Mt Victoria and Katoomba.  It should be one or the other.

I understand the argument raised about having the Bullet as a more frequent shuttle service throughout the day, rather than an express through service in peak hours.  However, a shuttle service connecting with the EMU at Lithgow, especially in peak hours, is going to be a slower trip.  The whole attraction of the Bullet is that it's a faster through express service to and from Sydney without the need to change.  It's going to be faster than the EMU because it stops at fewer stations.  A separate limited stop express EMU from Lithgow isn't warranted.  The EMU Intercity service is to cater for Blue Mountains' commuters.

I can't see a problem in stabling the Bullet in Bathurst overnight with appropriate security.  It would be cheaper and faster to taxi the crew to and from Lithgow.

It's not realistic to replace the Bullet with a morning Up XPT/NIF from Dubbo and vice versa in the evening.  Bathurst is halfway between Sydney and Dubbo and the Dubbo service would have to start extremely early, which wouldn't appeal to local travellers, to allow for an early morning start for either Bullet services from Bathurst, if that's even possible.  They are two different markets and the services have to be catered for them accordingly.  The upside is that Orange/Bathurst travellers could have the best of both worlds, with a more frequent shuttle service in the off-peak to and from Lithgow as well as peak hour through express services, complemented with the Dubbo XPT/NIF morning and evening Regional services.

This will obviously require more rolling stock, but if the government is serious about upgrading train services to regional NSW, then it is essential.  If and when electrification is extended as proposed, then it's a whole new ball game.

The aspect in all of this is what linkage does the Bullet as the MV services come under, Sydney trains or whoever runs the Interurbans to NCL, Lithgow and to Kiama now?

Bathurst prior to the Bullet would only have a coach connection service to Lithgow, and again under whose brand?, The same set up or who ran the services in the past were considered as part of the Country network trains, as such were bounded by Lithgow, Campbeltown and Sutherland pre Electrification. Newcastle sort of similar as it was part of the interurban services to Gosford which changed when the wires went up to NCL

The only commuter service as such that Moss Vale had was the one down evening service that stopped all stations from Campbelltown, followed by the Southern Highlands exp which dropped carriages off at MV for the morning up service from MV. The down SHE, was more the return commuter service though even though it went to Goulburn with the up service not arriving in Central until around 1000 IIRC.

The bullet as such is promised by the Government to help regional cities, as such they should fall under a country type set up and needs based. As such the only real stops that should be made on it should be Bathurst, Raglan, Wang, Lithgow, Mt Vict, Katoomba, Penrith Parramatta, Strathfield Central, based on what stations survive outside of the metro area, I do not include Blacktown as in country services in the past were non stoppers there, besides if it stops one could guarantee the locals would make it a sardine service.

Someone mentioned Raglan, not sure if the station is there anymore but that was a station that only had one stopping service at it during the Steam days but it was demoted to holiday times only.

I doubt there is any servicing areas left at Bx these days but would one of the DMU's make the return trip without the need to refuel, if so that it could stable at Bx in a secure enclosure. There are no train crews at Bx nor Orange anymore. & I think the Dubbo Xpt is worked by Dubbo crews at least the driver is.

When the new fleet arrives, I would think its possible that the bullet as such could start from Dubbo and run to Sydney, likewise the 2nd service that is in the plans, provides the way of getting the trains to Dubbo for maintenance also.

Bathurst is considered to be part of the NSW Trainlink Intercity service (previously CityRail), as distinct from the Regional services.  The Bullet is therefore an Intercity service, the same as the DMU from Bomaderry to Kiama and Moss Vale to Macarthur/Campbelltown, although the latter don't run through to Sydney.  Not sure about Goulburn, which is a similar distance from Sydney as Bathurst and has a daily return Explorer service.  Bathurst is much larger than Goulburn, so perhaps it should have a through Explorer service as well.

I don't see the need for a stop at Raglan, if the station still exists, as it's only 5 mins drive from Bathurst Station.  Tarana and Rydal are already stops on request for the Dubbo XPT and these locations would be more appropriate for the Bullet, leaving the XPT and its future replacement as non-stopping express services between Bathurst and Lithgow.  Nor do I see the need for the Bullet to stop at both Mt Victoria and Katoomba.  It should be one or the other.

I understand the argument raised about having the Bullet as a more frequent shuttle service throughout the day, rather than an express through service in peak hours.  However, a shuttle service connecting with the EMU at Lithgow, especially in peak hours, is going to be a slower trip.  The whole attraction of the Bullet is that it's a faster through express service to and from Sydney without the need to change.  It's going to be faster than the EMU because it stops at fewer stations.  A separate limited stop express EMU from Lithgow isn't warranted.  The EMU Intercity service is to cater for Blue Mountains' commuters.

Not much to disagree with what you are saying there, I really ummed and arhhed with Mt Vic as its probably not a real destination for those coming in from west of Lithgow, and would be much quicker by car.  Katoomba otoh could be attracting some from the west for a day trip there, but certainly would like to see what numbers use the bullet to/from Katoomba.

The ideal perhaps would be for a all stations service to leave Lithgow following the bullet with as required stops before Mt Vic.

Thanks for the correction and who runs the services these days, thought that might be the case and why I worded the post that way..

Raglan station (island) still exists and connected to the running lines if the various www photos are anything to go by.

Before dismissing the EMU connection, is there a difference in performance such that with the same stopping pattern, the DMU and EMU will have a different sectional times?

The reason I ask is because the whole anti argument is based on the EMU will take longer. But if the stopping pattern is the same and the performance the same then the only time lost is the change of trains.

The issue with running the DMU to the city is that its then lost for the day. No one is going to fund a 2 car DMU to head west at 10am in the morning. If the locals are happy with a single daily return train and the XPT and future XPT replacement so be it.

However if the locals would accept a transfer service where the timetable is basically equivalent or better than the DMU and at the same time they get a a say 2 return runs during the day, then let it be.

I think it will depend on what the future Dubbo XPT Replacement timetable looks like. If there are two services a day and they stop, Lithgow and all to Dubbo PLUS the Bathurst Bullet, then running through to the city and then likely sent elsewhere during the day is likely.

The aspect in all of this is what linkage does the Bullet as the MV services come under, Sydney trains or whoever runs the Interurbans to NCL, Lithgow and to Kiama now?

Bathurst prior to the Bullet would only have a coach connection service to Lithgow, and again under whose brand?, The same set up or who ran the services in the past were considered as part of the Country network trains, as such were bounded by Lithgow, Campbeltown and Sutherland pre Electrification. Newcastle sort of similar as it was part of the interurban services to Gosford which changed when the wires went up to NCL

The only commuter service as such that Moss Vale had was the one down evening service that stopped all stations from Campbelltown, followed by the Southern Highlands exp which dropped carriages off at MV for the morning up service from MV. The down SHE, was more the return commuter service though even though it went to Goulburn with the up service not arriving in Central until around 1000 IIRC.

The bullet as such is promised by the Government to help regional cities, as such they should fall under a country type set up and needs based. As such the only real stops that should be made on it should be Bathurst, Raglan, Wang, Lithgow, Mt Vict, Katoomba, Penrith Parramatta, Strathfield Central, based on what stations survive outside of the metro area, I do not include Blacktown as in country services in the past were non stoppers there, besides if it stops one could guarantee the locals would make it a sardine service.

Someone mentioned Raglan, not sure if the station is there anymore but that was a station that only had one stopping service at it during the Steam days but it was demoted to holiday times only.

I doubt there is any servicing areas left at Bx these days but would one of the DMU's make the return trip without the need to refuel, if so that it could stable at Bx in a secure enclosure. There are no train crews at Bx nor Orange anymore. & I think the Dubbo Xpt is worked by Dubbo crews at least the driver is.

When the new fleet arrives, I would think its possible that the bullet as such could start from Dubbo and run to Sydney, likewise the 2nd service that is in the plans, provides the way of getting the trains to Dubbo for maintenance also.

Bathurst is considered to be part of the NSW Trainlink Intercity service (previously CityRail), as distinct from the Regional services.  The Bullet is therefore an Intercity service, the same as the DMU from Bomaderry to Kiama and Moss Vale to Macarthur/Campbelltown, although the latter don't run through to Sydney.  Not sure about Goulburn, which is a similar distance from Sydney as Bathurst and has a daily return Explorer service.  Bathurst is much larger than Goulburn, so perhaps it should have a through Explorer service as well.

I don't see the need for a stop at Raglan, if the station still exists, as it's only 5 mins drive from Bathurst Station.  Tarana and Rydal are already stops on request for the Dubbo XPT and these locations would be more appropriate for the Bullet, leaving the XPT and its future replacement as non-stopping express services between Bathurst and Lithgow.  Nor do I see the need for the Bullet to stop at both Mt Victoria and Katoomba.  It should be one or the other.

I understand the argument raised about having the Bullet as a more frequent shuttle service throughout the day, rather than an express through service in peak hours.  However, a shuttle service connecting with the EMU at Lithgow, especially in peak hours, is going to be a slower trip.  The whole attraction of the Bullet is that it's a faster through express service to and from Sydney without the need to change.  It's going to be faster than the EMU because it stops at fewer stations.  A separate limited stop express EMU from Lithgow isn't warranted.  The EMU Intercity service is to cater for Blue Mountains' commuters.

Not much to disagree with what you are saying there, I really ummed and arhhed with Mt Vic as its probably not a real destination for those coming in from west of Lithgow, and would be much quicker by car.  Katoomba otoh could be attracting some from the west for a day trip there, but certainly would like to see what numbers use the bullet to/from Katoomba.

The ideal perhaps would be for a all stations service to leave Lithgow following the bullet with as required stops before Mt Vic.

Thanks for the correction and who runs the services these days, thought that might be the case and why I worded the post that way..

I've added a further comment to my previous post which you might like to consider.