Locomotive Auction

 
  jmt Deputy Commissioner

Not Australia, but South Africa
https://online.whauctions.com/auction-011/auctionDetails/3445

Locos are over height for South Africa. On Cape gauge, unsuitable for freight, if HEP stripped out, too much HP for traction
The CME who ordered them had the correct political affiliations, unfortunately he had purchased his PHD from a purveyor of dodgy degrees.

There was graft and corruption involved in this loco lease deal. 7 undelivered units still at Stadler Valencia. Also 50 EuroLight Duels, first few of these were also assembled prior to contract collapsing. Has bounced around the South African court system for the last 2 or 3 years https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_African_Class_Afro_4000

Ideally best converted to standard gauge, with traction motors capable of utilising the HP

Unlikely to be sold into Europe as build date is after the introduction of the current diesel standard, possibly a prohibited import

12 ultra low mileage, one thoroughly bonked in a derailment. Derailment due to Transnet not briefing the PRASA driver, on tempory speed restriction. No love lost between these two Parastatals, same government, however both are the fiefdoms of oposing factions within the governing ANC

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  lkernan Deputy Commissioner

Location: Melbourne
The more I hear about that country the more I realise i'll never understand it.
  fzr560 Chief Train Controller

The more I hear about that country the more I realise i'll never understand it.
lkernan

It's not that complicated. In 1989 a member of the South African Defence Force told me that the only thing that matters in South Africa is " The tribe that carries the biggest stick controls the country". For the last 25 years, the ANC has had the biggest stick.
  nswtrains Chief Commissioner

The more I hear about that country the more I realise i'll never understand it.

It's not that complicated. In 1989 a member of the South African Defence Force told me that the only thing that matters in South Africa is " The tribe that carries the biggest stick controls the country". For the last 30 years, the ANC has had the biggest stick.
fzr560
The only thing you need to understand about Sth Africa is white fellas stuffed it up in the first place by not permitting the original owners to have any say in the running of the place. Especially those Boar fascists.
  fzr560 Chief Train Controller

The more I hear about that country the more I realise i'll never understand it.

It's not that complicated. In 1989 a member of the South African Defence Force told me that the only thing that matters in South Africa is " The tribe that carries the biggest stick controls the country". For the last 30 years, the ANC has had the biggest stick.
The only thing you need to understand about Sth Africa is white fellas stuffed it up in the first place by not permitting the original owners to have any say in the running of the place. Especially those Boar fascists.
nswtrains
Which must make anybody that is not a member of the ruling ANC elite feel especially good. And I think you'll find the word you're looking for is Boer.
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
The more I hear about that country the more I realise i'll never understand it.

It's not that complicated. In 1989 a member of the South African Defence Force told me that the only thing that matters in South Africa is " The tribe that carries the biggest stick controls the country". For the last 30 years, the ANC has had the biggest stick.
The only thing you need to understand about Sth Africa is white fellas stuffed it up in the first place by not permitting the original owners to have any say in the running of the place. Especially those Boar fascists.
Which must make anybody that is not a member of the ruling ANC elite feel especially good. And I think you'll find the word you're looking for is Boer.
fzr560
The British when the first Conquered the Cape got rid of all the Racial Law's that the Dutch had in place and did so the same when they were conquering Boer Republics. The Equality laws were gradually repealed by the British to appease the Influential Afrikaner Voices in the country. It was a gradual shift to apartheid from the 10s till the late 40s when it was formally declared. South Africa has alway had poverty, that is undeniable they've replaced the Racial Separation with one of economics, the Rich whites stayed wealthy and handful of Natives became wealthy while the rest were left in place with many falling into wore levels of living than under apartheid largely the middle and lower class Everyone (Natives, Indians, Afrikaner, Ect). The ANC despite its Nobel intention in creating a 'rainbow state' has essentially replaced the old National Party homogeny that existed prior.
  fzr560 Chief Train Controller

The more I hear about that country the more I realise i'll never understand it.

It's not that complicated. In 1989 a member of the South African Defence Force told me that the only thing that matters in South Africa is " The tribe that carries the biggest stick controls the country". For the last 30 years, the ANC has had the biggest stick.
The only thing you need to understand about Sth Africa is white fellas stuffed it up in the first place by not permitting the original owners to have any say in the running of the place. Especially those Boar fascists.
nswtrains
".....the original owners....." and that would be who? Zulus? Xhosas? Ndbele? Standby. We'll just duck down to the Land Titles office to check.
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
The more I hear about that country the more I realise i'll never understand it.

It's not that complicated. In 1989 a member of the South African Defence Force told me that the only thing that matters in South Africa is " The tribe that carries the biggest stick controls the country". For the last 30 years, the ANC has had the biggest stick.
The only thing you need to understand about Sth Africa is white fellas stuffed it up in the first place by not permitting the original owners to have any say in the running of the place. Especially those Boar fascists.
".....the original owners....." and that would be who? Zulus? Xhosas? Ndbele? Standby. We'll just duck down to the Land Titles office to check.
fzr560
its plural for a reason, Why else?
  fzr560 Chief Train Controller

The more I hear about that country the more I realise i'll never understand it.

It's not that complicated. In 1989 a member of the South African Defence Force told me that the only thing that matters in South Africa is " The tribe that carries the biggest stick controls the country". For the last 30 years, the ANC has had the biggest stick.
The only thing you need to understand about Sth Africa is white fellas stuffed it up in the first place by not permitting the original owners to have any say in the running of the place. Especially those Boar fascists.
".....the original owners....." and that would be who? Zulus? Xhosas? Ndbele? Standby. We'll just duck down to the Land Titles office to check.
its plural for a reason, Why else?
Dangersdan707
Er yes. My point was that like most places, southern Africa has a long and complicated history and "Blackfella good, Whitefella bad" is racist nonsense.
  Big J Assistant Commissioner

Location: In Paradise
The more I hear about that country the more I realise i'll never understand it.

It's not that complicated. In 1989 a member of the South African Defence Force told me that the only thing that matters in South Africa is " The tribe that carries the biggest stick controls the country". For the last 30 years, the ANC has had the biggest stick.
The only thing you need to understand about Sth Africa is white fellas stuffed it up in the first place by not permitting the original owners to have any say in the running of the place. Especially those Boar fascists.
nswtrains
You can say that about in relation to any part of the world that has been colonised including Australia.

I think you are being over simplistic and naive about the very strong culture of belonging to the multiple ethnic groups. Unfortunate product of colonisation is the European boundaries ignored homelands and now we often have multiple groups lumped in a single country with a conflict of the largest group over all of the remaining groups. This reminds me of the issue of the Middle East as well.

The reality is that these countries are not going to redefine boundaries and like every other country on earth those that hold power are not going to let it go.

As others said, simply saying whites are baddies and the indigenous people are goodies is extremely naive of the history of the place. Do some reading. A good start is the history of Liberia. A country of good intent, but has ended up far from that utopian vision.

One thing must be said, education is making a difference and some countries that do educate all of their population improve more than others. There are many good stable countries and with Africa political stability changes rapidly and so countries that were not, can become some of the better ones. A great example is Rwanda, how they include women in their society, with actual power not tokenism.
  Big J Assistant Commissioner

Location: In Paradise
Back to the original thread. There may not be a very huge appetite for these and they may have to virtually commercially give them away, if an operator here would take on the risk.

However I never would have thought that 20 years ago, that an operator would buy aged V20 EMD locos from Denmark either!
  jmt Deputy Commissioner

Back to the original thread. There may not be a very huge appetite for these and they may have to virtually commercially give them away, if an operator here would take on the risk.

However I never would have thought that 20 years ago, that an operator would buy aged V20 EMD locos from Denmark either!
"Big J"



Agreed, look at the specs, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_African_Class_Afro_4000
20.5 tonnes on cape gauge with D43 traction motors
16-710G3B-T2
Problem is that it is specifically set up for passenger with a generator plus alternator for HEP

With D43 a 12-710 will suffice, like Class 66, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_66

For sg or bg freight (like in Brazil/Argentina/Chile) possibly convert to AC/AC?

Stadler still have the 7 undelivered examples in stock (since 2014), adding evidence that these cannot be used in Europe on account of the "dirty" engine. South Africa was the only country to order narrow gauge. the only country using sg 4000's outside of Europe is Israel
https://www.mainlinediesels.net/index.php?nav=1000187&lang=en

Google Earth for line of the 7 undelivered examples 39°32'37.74" N   0°18'18.53" W
  jmt Deputy Commissioner
  Jack Le Lievre Chief Train Controller

Location: Moolap Station, Vic
Now the movie


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBlbfMzbPpg&feature=youtu.be
jmt
So, apart from needing to be Bogie Exchanged, they will need a Cab Upgrade if they were to work in Australia.
  fzr560 Chief Train Controller

Now the movie


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBlbfMzbPpg&feature=youtu.be
So, apart from needing to be Bogie Exchanged, they will need a Cab Upgrade if they were to work in Australia.
Jack Le Lievre
I could only see them being good for parts. The 16-710's should find a home pretty easily. Anything else useful in there?
  The_trolley Deputy Commissioner

Location: .
So....?

Replace the Narrow Gauge bogies with a heavier set of Standard Gauge bogie frames, fit heavier duty and physically heavier D87BTR traction motors and you’ll likely end up with a loco that would weigh 130 odd ton and would probably go up against an AN Class for a L2 load category rating in NSW.

This is after you purchase them, ship them to Australia, fabricate the new bogies, fit automatic couplers and associated drawgear, modify the locomotives to suit any local requirements (ex Europe the mufflers should be suitable for NSW you’d have to think), modify the air brake gear and heavily modify the centre cab arrangement.

Pass.
  nswtrains Chief Commissioner

So....?

Replace the Narrow Gauge bogies with a heavier set of Standard Gauge bogie frames, fit heavier duty and physically heavier D87BTR traction motors and you’ll likely end up with a loco that would weigh 130 odd ton and would probably go up against an AN Class for a L2 load category rating in NSW.

This is after you purchase them, ship them to Australia, fabricate the new bogies, fit automatic couplers and associated drawgear, modify the locomotives to suit any local requirements (ex Europe the mufflers should be suitable for NSW you’d have to think), modify the air brake gear and heavily modify the centre cab arrangement.

Pass.
The_trolley
Ugly looking things. So Euro.
  fzr560 Chief Train Controller

So....?

Replace the Narrow Gauge bogies with a heavier set of Standard Gauge bogie frames, fit heavier duty and physically heavier D87BTR traction motors and you’ll likely end up with a loco that would weigh 130 odd ton and would probably go up against an AN Class for a L2 load category rating in NSW.

This is after you purchase them, ship them to Australia, fabricate the new bogies, fit automatic couplers and associated drawgear, modify the locomotives to suit any local requirements (ex Europe the mufflers should be suitable for NSW you’d have to think), modify the air brake gear and heavily modify the centre cab arrangement.

Pass.
Ugly looking things. So Euro.
nswtrains
Yes.....come to Australia if you are designing a locomotive and are looking for inspiration. I'm shocked and amazed that no-one has yet produced a double-ended VL:D.....under licence of course

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Subscribers: Big J, fzr560, Jack Le Lievre

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