NSWR coal stage loco use

 
  a6et Minister for Railways

Hi all
Does anyone know what sort of wagons were used to take the
sand up the top of the sand towers that are attached to some of
the coal stages?
Regards Mathew Hughes
Hopper wagons were generally not used owing to the sand bins being on the approach end of the bins, both for the coal bins and for loco's going through to get sand boxes filled, then coaled then up onto the de-ash pits before heading to the shed. and next job.
Sorry, I don't understand the significance of the sand bins being on the approach end of the coal bins, with regard to hopper sand wagons? Not disputing the point but just plain curious, as usual.
Petan, I understand its a weird aspect but if you look at the location of the sand bin, in relation to the servicing of the loco's it comes into play, in certain respects it depends on the depot as well as I am thinking the WCK one may have been different.
(lots of lovely material snipped)
Thanks for all that interesting material. I have a follow up question; Why does the fact sand is in a hopper wagon or not in a hopper wagon, make a difference to its delivery to the coal stage area?
Petan, the only reason really is that a hopper wagon can discharge from the bottom, now something has come to me that gives the primary reason why sand for steam and the separate bins for sand than with coal, is that there is what's called a (more good material snipped to save space)
I just realised your description suggests sand out the side of the wagon into the receiver burner on the side of a coal stage, not dumped into a receiver under the wagon so a bottom discharge hopper wagon would not work. By the way, I never knew how sand burners worked, although I had heard of them, so thanks for that as well. Cheers Peter
petan
No Problems Peter.  There is so much in the railways and operations that's hard to understand, especially the little areas as well.

I also now remember one other depot that had one of the large types of Stages and that was Cowra.

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  c3526blue Deputy Commissioner

Location: in the cuckoos nest
Hi all
Does anyone know what sort of wagons were used to take the
sand up the top of the sand towers that are attached to some of
the coal stages?
Regards Mathew Hughes
Hopper wagons were generally not used owing to the sand bins being on the approach end of the bins, both for the coal bins and for loco's going through to get sand boxes filled, then coaled then up onto the de-ash pits before heading to the shed. and next job.
Sorry, I don't understand the significance of the sand bins being on the approach end of the coal bins, with regard to hopper sand wagons? Not disputing the point but just plain curious, as usual.
Petan, I understand its a weird aspect but if you look at the location of the sand bin, in relation to the servicing of the loco's it comes into play, in certain respects it depends on the depot as well as I am thinking the WCK one may have been different.
(lots of lovely material snipped)
Thanks for all that interesting material. I have a follow up question; Why does the fact sand is in a hopper wagon or not in a hopper wagon, make a difference to its delivery to the coal stage area?
Petan, the only reason really is that a hopper wagon can discharge from the bottom, now something has come to me that gives the primary reason why sand for steam and the separate bins for sand than with coal, is that there is what's called a burner in the top of the sand bin, the concept is and I think I mentioned before was that sand had to be very dry, and the heating of the sand as it flowed down was at high temp to ensure no moisture was in the sand, sand pipes on loco's could readily block if moisture got in and made the sand thick.

The main aspect though is that where the sand truck was stopped and secured by chocks and hand brake, was they were in line with the sand bin, and the sand was shovelled out of the wagon into the burner bin, the sand truck always came up in the last load of the morning/day, where they had extra fuelmen to unload the sand.  It was a hard job and unpleasant if the wind was blowing, but tricks were had, the drop door was let go first with the sand falling out onto the deck (at that part of the coal stage, there was no gap between the rails and the sides on the outside rails were covered with wooden walkways, one or two fuelmen would get the sand shovelled into the burner while another would be in the truck shovelling the sand out and onto the heap
a6et
Thanks a6et,

For your very detailed description of sand operations relating to a coal stage.  You provide a very valuable contribution to those of us that have not been able to observe the intricate workings of a loco depot.  They may be small details but the accurate description of how these components were operated is greatly valued.

Happy depoting,

John
  alco4836 Station Master

Thank you very much a6et this has been very informative.
I will push my luck one more time with another question.
Was the fire to dry the sand gas powered as I noticed in a
few pictures a large(ish) tank under the ramp inline with
the sanding tower at Port Waratah? If not do you know
what the tank for?
Regards Mathew Hughes
  a6et Minister for Railways

Thank you very much a6et this has been very informative.
I will push my luck one more time with another question.
Was the fire to dry the sand gas powered as I noticed in a
few pictures a large(ish) tank under the ramp inline with
the sanding tower at Port Waratah? If not do you know
what the tank for?
Regards Mathew Hughes
alco4836
I would need to see the photo's Mathew, but my thinking is that it could be a drier/storage tank.
  alco4836 Station Master

Hi
This is the tank at Port Waratah
pic 1 and pic 2
Sorry not the best pics but the only ones I can
find online. There is a good pic in coals to Newcastle part 1
on page 3.
Regards Mathew Hughes
  a6et Minister for Railways

Hi
This is the tank at Port Waratah
pic 1 and pic 2
Sorry not the best pics but the only ones I can
find online. There is a good pic in coals to Newcastle part 1
on page 3.
Regards Mathew Hughes
alco4836
Its been a long time since my time at PTW, a month on loan and had to threaten to resign if I did not go back to WCK off Loan or Enfield, I ended up back at Enfield/Delec.

Looking at the photo you posted its hard to pick in the B&W shot but the colour one taken from Industrial drive shows the bin more clearly, I got out also the Train Hobbies Loco Depots book as well as the Byways of Steam #27, the TH book has a couple of nice photo's quite large while the Byways not as good but it provides a track and depot diagram which helps me with a rough stab at what it is.  The Byways diagram dates from 1920, and I doubt it applied with the track diagram in the 60's, as I do not recollect the tracks on the ID side of the stage were there, in 1970, I may well be wrong and same with the rest of what I think is the case.

Photo's show that coaling facilities were over on the other side of the stage, (yard side) Two through like roads were there with one going direct to the down line and the one next to it was the loco servicing road where coal was taken. Water columns were also there for use at the stage and line next to it, ie the down line. Down line would have been for trains skirting the yard and heading to Hanbury Jct.

The round bins would have actually been the main sand holding bins with a sanding platform under it. In the colour photo you showed, there is a sand wagon being position by the 19cl right at the discharge point, that type of wagon I have not seen before but I am thinking it is likely for conveyance of already treated/burnt and dried sand from BMD to PTW depots, the metal bins would keep the sand dry.

As I said I could be totally wrong in what I have said but could be close as well

Cheers

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