Andrews, Morrison team up for $1 billion Monash gridlock-buster

 
Topic moved from News by dthead on 04 Sep 2019 20:53
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
The fact that we are still having these discussions about road widening shows again Melbourne is years away from having competent government. if Andrews's had any backbone he would be asking for that money to be immediately spent on the Cranbourne Railway Line and speeding up the suburban rail loop.

Adding more lanes to no where is clearly something not understood by Morrison or Andrews who are ore about votes and being seen to be doing something rather than actually doing something.

Pathetic.

Andrews, Morrison team up for $1 billion Monash gridlock-buster

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  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
This announcement also confirms the pattern I have seen.  Daniel Andrews ALWAYS makes an announcement about something he is doing or planning to do for RAIL just prior to a big ticket road announcement.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
More ranting from me.

Does this project even sit on the IA priority list?
  dthead Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Widening roads does not help if they all end in confusion as cars try to get to where they want to, those areas  need fixing not adding more cars into the pincer. And also one subject the motorists to all the speed restriction and lane closures for a long time.

David
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Widening roads does not help if they all end in confusion as cars try to get to where they want to, those areas  need fixing not adding more cars into the pincer. And also one subject the motorists to all the speed restriction and lane closures for a long time.

David
dthead
It just shifts traffic jams from one point in the system to another.

With regards to the Monash, I think the opportunity was missed under Bracks/Brumby when they put forward a rather modest proposal for 3 tracks to Dandenong at the same time as they pushed the (then) Monash expansion to four lanes each way. The express track to Dandy was canned and now that the long sections of 'sky-rail' have been built it will be nigh on impossible to expand the physical capacity of a corridor already overflowing with peak traffic.

Clearly, they want people in their cars - not on trains.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
Widening roads does not help if they all end in confusion as cars try to get to where they want to, those areas  need fixing not adding more cars into the pincer. And also one subject the motorists to all the speed restriction and lane closures for a long time.

David
It just shifts traffic jams from one point in the system to another.

With regards to the Monash, I think the opportunity was missed under Bracks/Brumby when they put forward a rather modest proposal for 3 tracks to Dandenong at the same time as they pushed the (then) Monash expansion to four lanes each way. The express track to Dandy was canned and now that the long sections of 'sky-rail' have been built it will be nigh on impossible to expand the physical capacity of a corridor already overflowing with peak traffic.

Clearly, they want people in their cars - not on trains.
don_dunstan

Meanwhile... announced this week:

https://suburbanrailloop.vic.gov.au/

Construction will definitely start within two years.

Mike.
  stooge spark Train Controller

Location: My House
IIRC sunrise got the story wrong today
They claimed that the Princes Freeway between Berwick and Pakenham was 8 lanes and was being expanded to 12.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia

Meanwhile... announced this week:

https://suburbanrailloop.vic.gov.au/

Construction will definitely start within two years.
The Vinelander

How will the suburban rail loop address the issues of a lack of train services to the expanding suburbs east of Dandenong and Cranbourne?
  n459L1150 Train Controller

Location: at sunbury on a V/line service into melbourne, waiting for thousands of impatient people to get on
interesting to see how much they can expand sunshine without ruining the area
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE

Meanwhile... announced this week:

https://suburbanrailloop.vic.gov.au/

Construction will definitely start within two years.

Mike.
The Vinelander
Nice
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud

Meanwhile... announced this week:

https://suburbanrailloop.vic.gov.au/

Construction will definitely start within two years.
How will the suburban rail loop address the issues of a lack of train services to the expanding suburbs east of Dandenong and Cranbourne?
bevans
Vinelander is the ultimate Dan Andrews fan-boy so anything at all to sneak a reference to him in there.

Not sure about the suburban loop thing, they chose an expensive brand new alignment when they could have used one that was already purpose-built for it (Eastlink) - in my opinion that would have had more redundancy built into it being further out and the cost savings of using that existing route. Also the expense is going to be phenomenal - they've already spent the proceeds from the sale of the Port of Melbourne on their already very extensive infrastructure build, given traditional revenue sources like stamp duty are shrinking where will the money come from?

Also contrary to what Mike has said they likely won't start any time before the next election so it could well go into the bin like East-West Link did.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
interesting to see how much they can expand sunshine without ruining the area
n459L1150
That horse bolted some decades ago...
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line

Meanwhile... announced this week:

https://suburbanrailloop.vic.gov.au/

Construction will definitely start within two years.
How will the suburban rail loop address the issues of a lack of train services to the expanding suburbs east of Dandenong and Cranbourne?Vinelander is the ultimate Dan Andrews fan-boy so anything at all to sneak a reference to him in there.

Not sure about the suburban loop thing, they chose an expensive brand new alignment when they could have used one that was already purpose-built for it (Eastlink) - in my opinion that would have had more redundancy built into it being further out and the cost savings of using that existing route. Also the expense is going to be phenomenal - they've already spent the proceeds from the sale of the Port of Melbourne on their already very extensive infrastructure build, given traditional revenue sources like stamp duty are shrinking where will the money come from?

Also contrary to what Mike has said they likely won't start any time before the next election so it could well go into the bin like East-West Link did.
don_dunstan

Feel free to add your valuable and welcome comments here:

https://www.surveygizmo.com/s3/5064835/Suburban-Rail-Loop

Also bear in mind, we have a Labor government in Victoria, which already has many runs on the board regards PT infrastructure.

As a PT advocate, I know which side my bread is buttered...have you seen the works at Ballan and the Ballarat line in general lately Question

We also recall the malaise stricken Baillieu/Napthine, single term government in Victoria which preceded the Andrews government and I empathise with your living under a similar administration in SA.

Mike.
  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
A billion dollar road project can start early next year but we need to wait 8 years for the airport rail line ?
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE

Feel free to add your valuable and welcome comments here:

https://www.surveygizmo.com/s3/5064835/Suburban-Rail-Loop

Also bear in mind, we have a Labor government in Victoria, which already has many runs on the board regards PT infrastructure.

As a PT advocate, I know which side my bread is buttered...have you seen the works at Ballan and the Ballarat line in general lately Question

We also recall the malaise stricken Baillieu/Napthine, single term government in Victoria which preceded the Andrews government and I empathise with your living under a similar administration in SA.

Mike.
The Vinelander
But does your precious govt has as many runs on the board as the one north of the Murray?

Yes the works on the Ballarat line are great, finally removing a 8km detour passing loop.

The previous administration in SA left them with the highest power prices in the world and thats when the lights were actually on. However your administration has successfully taken Vic from the lowest wholesale power prices to even higher than SA. So the last thing Don wants is more of the same in a tit for tat exercise on who can drive power prices the highest.
  speedemon08 Mary

Location: I think by now you should have figured it out

Feel free to add your valuable and welcome comments here:

https://www.surveygizmo.com/s3/5064835/Suburban-Rail-Loop

Also bear in mind, we have a Labor government in Victoria, which already has many runs on the board regards PT infrastructure.

As a PT advocate, I know which side my bread is buttered...have you seen the works at Ballan and the Ballarat line in general lately Question

We also recall the malaise stricken Baillieu/Napthine, single term government in Victoria which preceded the Andrews government and I empathise with your living under a similar administration in SA.

Mike.But does your precious govt has as many runs on the board as the one north of the Murray?

Yes the works on the Ballarat line are great, finally removing a 8km detour passing loop.

The previous administration in SA left them with the highest power prices in the world and thats when the lights were actually on. However your administration has successfully taken Vic from the lowest wholesale power prices to even higher than SA. So the last thing Don wants is more of the same in a tit for tat exercise on who can drive power prices the highest.
RTT_Rules
Hazelwood would have shut irregardless. STFU.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Hazelwood would have shut irregardless. STFU.
speedemon08
Oh dear, another hard leftie who doesn't like a reality check who should have taken notice of his STFU.

No the power station didn't need to close and certainly not then with 5mth notice, yes it was old, very old but could have been kept running if the govt had provided the right operating environment until a replacement was sorted out.

Yes the station should have closed in the past, but it needed to have been replaced, it wasn't.

The Vic govt is now taxing the hand that lights it and doing nothing with this money to solve the issue placing all its marbles into a power generation source that wasn't available when the lights went out last year.

As a result of Vic govt failures, Vic has gone from a state exporting power with the lowest prices to the highest cost in the state, the futures for 2020 whole sale price is double that of Qld, 1/3 more than NSW / Qld / SA / TAS. Had the Geelong smelter remained in operation, the situation would be worse.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
A billion dollar road project can start early next year but we need to wait 8 years for the airport rail line ?
freightgate

Monash is basically a simple road widening project.

The airport rail line and Suburban rail loop are greenfields for the most part and take a heap more planning and relocation of existing infrastructure.

Mike.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line

Feel free to add your valuable and welcome comments here:

https://www.surveygizmo.com/s3/5064835/Suburban-Rail-Loop

Also bear in mind, we have a Labor government in Victoria, which already has many runs on the board regards PT infrastructure.

As a PT advocate, I know which side my bread is buttered...have you seen the works at Ballan and the Ballarat line in general lately Question

We also recall the malaise stricken Baillieu/Napthine, single term government in Victoria which preceded the Andrews government and I empathise with your living under a similar administration in SA.

Mike.But does your precious govt has as many runs on the board as the one north of the Murray?

Yes the works on the Ballarat line are great, finally removing a 8km detour passing loop.

The previous administration in SA left them with the highest power prices in the world and thats when the lights were actually on. However your administration has successfully taken Vic from the lowest wholesale power prices to even higher than SA. So the last thing Don wants is more of the same in a tit for tat exercise on who can drive power prices the highest.
RTT_Rules

I think you've been out in that Arabian heat for too long Shane...

Already, the scope....read budget$ for the new regional trains in NSW is being reduced...I again on the form of conservative governments....rest my case.

Mike.
  ngarner Chief Train Controller

Location: Seville
Much as I'm seriously disappointed to see more money wasted on yet another "congestion busting" freeway widening that will fill up in no time, due to induced demand, I've read somewhere (sorry can't remember where) that this was a Morrison funding promise of some time ago. If this is correct, much as I'd like Andrews to man up and say "I'll take the money but I'll use it on PT, not another wasteful road widening", I can accept him taking anything the feds are willing to throw at him at this point in time to help the states bottom line.
I wish I could work out where Andrews stands. Metro 1 well underway, LXRA working on removing crossings #30+, Cranbourne & Hurstbridge duplication next year, SRLA established, MARL & Western Rail planning underway, RRL going strongly but then he wastes money on NE Link, widening of the western highway through sacred Native lands & now this one. Add to that failing infrastructure like the speed restrictions on the Echuca & Bendigo east lines, closure of the Toolamba line, etc.
I thought he had worked out that PT is the way to go, and a big vote winner to boot, but now I'm beginning to doubt that he has. Instead, I'm starting to think he's playing both cards off against each other; i.e. road and PT, in an attempt to keep most voters happy and doesn't really favour PT as much as he's implied.

Neil
  speedemon08 Mary

Location: I think by now you should have figured it out
Hazelwood would have shut irregardless. STFU.
Oh dear, another hard leftie who doesn't like a reality check who should have taken notice of his STFU.

No the power station didn't need to close and certainly not then with 5mth notice, yes it was old, very old but could have been kept running if the govt had provided the right operating environment until a replacement was sorted out.

Yes the station should have closed in the past, but it needed to have been replaced, it wasn't.

The Vic govt is now taxing the hand that lights it and doing nothing with this money to solve the issue placing all its marbles into a power generation source that wasn't available when the lights went out last year.

As a result of Vic govt failures, Vic has gone from a state exporting power with the lowest prices to the highest cost in the state, the futures for 2020 whole sale price is double that of Qld, 1/3 more than NSW / Qld / SA / TAS. Had the Geelong smelter remained in operation, the situation would be worse.
RTT_Rules
Oh dear, not like immediate family was employed there for several decades. I did have quite an inside line into how the plant was run and such....
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE

Feel free to add your valuable and welcome comments here:

https://www.surveygizmo.com/s3/5064835/Suburban-Rail-Loop

Also bear in mind, we have a Labor government in Victoria, which already has many runs on the board regards PT infrastructure.

As a PT advocate, I know which side my bread is buttered...have you seen the works at Ballan and the Ballarat line in general lately Question

We also recall the malaise stricken Baillieu/Napthine, single term government in Victoria which preceded the Andrews government and I empathise with your living under a similar administration in SA.

Mike.But does your precious govt has as many runs on the board as the one north of the Murray?

Yes the works on the Ballarat line are great, finally removing a 8km detour passing loop.

The previous administration in SA left them with the highest power prices in the world and thats when the lights were actually on. However your administration has successfully taken Vic from the lowest wholesale power prices to even higher than SA. So the last thing Don wants is more of the same in a tit for tat exercise on who can drive power prices the highest.
I think you've been out in that Arabian heat for too long Shane...

Already, the scope....read budget$ for the new regional trains in NSW is being reduced...I again on the form of conservative governments....rest my case.

Mike.
The Vinelander
Oh dear Mike, you want to go down this path. I think you banged your head on the roof of your mini over the bumpy Vic rural road network, but thats another story.

I think Sim's highlighted well enough the commitment and money spent by the NSW govt for the last 8 years, more than Quad spent by the previous govt over 11 years and more than the rest of the country combined for alot longer on all passenger rail.

What ever NSW  Govt has or hasn't done regarding regional rail and I've yet to see where someone actually knows beyond a interpretation of govt press releases which we all know regardless of the party in power usually has alot of fluff that lacks detailed assessment.

- The XPT's will be replaced, this despite the doom and gloomers here for years even under ALP govt predicting busitution
- Much of the XPL if not all of the XPL services will also be replaced despite the XPL's still not due to retire.
- The displaced XPL's will no doubt be relocated to commuter services as END cars.
- Replacement of the END and potentially Hunter fleets by the end of the 2020's with additional CAF orders.

or something very close to this. Maybe some CAF's will find their way into busier commuter services early on, who knows.

I think this was the most common sense approach and what most of the non-dreamers expected or are expected.


Now back to the Great South People's Republic.

-  ALP said they would reopen the South Gippsland Railway, still waiting 20 years later
-  The Murray Lander not much better.
-  Regional Victorians are still travelling in rolling stock made before I was born
-  Interurban Commuter trains in Vic still single car DMU's?
-  Single track still the mainstay of many services?
-  How far does the wires extend from Mel?
-  Hows the train to the airport going, or do you need the rest of the country to pay for it, like the Geelong sparking?

Mike, we can quote the political crap in a tit for tat exercise all day long if you want, my point is this isn't an election campaign, why do we need to turn it into one? Yes I'd rather hear about the likes of the Ballarat line upgrade etc etc
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Oh dear, not like immediate family was employed there for several decades. I did have quite an inside line into how the plant was run and such....
speedemon08
I work in heavy industry too as does my brother in another industry, let me guess

- No Maintenance
- Plant was run into the ground
- No one cares about the people
- All about the money
- If they didn't close it down it would have blown up

Its the same everywhere, reality, perception or combination of both, who knows, who really cares. It did however have $800M spent on new gear over the 20 years in private ownership. $800M would build you a new plant about 1/4 - 1/3 the size. Point is it should have been replaced/part replaced and it wasn't and the Vic govt lived in a dream not planning for its pending closure and still living in dream land waiting for someone else to solve their problem. Hence 2.5 years after closure they still have done nothing!

Vic has not expanded its peaking gas capacity in at least 15 years and I think actually closed some older ones. As soon as the govt heard about Hazellwood, they could have called for peaking capacity to be built. Nope!!!

Did they not learn from SA's experience?  As soon as Northern was pulled from SA, they should have had a meeting with the power company CEO's are demanded their longterm plans and etc.

So in 2020, Vic will now have the crown for Aus's and the western world's highest power prices, by a long short.
  MetroFemme Assistant Commissioner

Want to weigh in on this.

Spending another $1b on the roads will not solve any congestion problems rail in current form out this way simply does not cut it. What trains that run are so packed almost unuseable in peak hour. Desperately need rail to Clyde and beyond. No plans in a useful timeline.  Frustration is building down this way.

$1b for duplication makes no sense. Cannot see how it could be that much and I am in construction. These amounts make no sense.
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
Widening roads does not help if they all end in confusion as cars try to get to where they want to, those areas  need fixing not adding more cars into the pincer. And also one subject the motorists to all the speed restriction and lane closures for a long time.

David
Now that the long sections of 'sky-rail' have been built it will be nigh on impossible to expand the physical capacity of a corridor already overflowing with peak traffic.

.
don_dunstan
I think you will find there Is provision foe 2 extra express tracks between Dandenong and Clayton (Yarraman and Sandown Parks stations probably need rebuilding)

From the Clayton to South Yarra would still remain an expensive problem, that probably needs a tunnel ?

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