XPT replacement thread 2019

 
  djf01 Chief Commissioner

Standard platform height in the UK is 915mm so clearly Stadler have worked out a way of applying their rolling stock technology to high platform railways

Sydney's is much higher then that although I can't find the exact numbers anywhere at the moment. In any case the Stadler design wasn't part of any of the tenders and the CAF design was and is extremely modern with a diesel electric multiple unit setup.
simstrain
Pretty sure it's now 1100mm, but that's from memory.

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  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
Wouldn't be the first time NSW bought regional train design from UK and had to adapt the platform height, I'm sure they will sort it out.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

Wouldn't be the first time NSW bought regional train design from UK and had to adapt the platform height, I'm sure they will sort it out.
RTT_Rules

The Staedler isn't a UK design. The BR class 755 is just one version of that platform. In any case the CAF was chosen and it will hopefully be a very good design.
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
Wouldn't be the first time NSW bought regional train design from UK and had to adapt the platform height, I'm sure they will sort it out.

The Staedler isn't a UK design. The BR class 755 is just one version of that platform. In any case the CAF was chosen and it will hopefully be a very good design.
simstrain
Thanks, but the point still stands.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

Still why waste time with the staedler design and in relation to the recent post. Why was it a lost opportunity to not go for that swiss design instead of the CAF design?
  nswtrains Chief Commissioner

Still why waste time with the staedler design and in relation to the recent post. Why was it a lost opportunity to not go for that swiss design instead of the CAF design?
simstrain
These contracts are actually more like a wet lease deal. NSW Trains probably doesn't own the vehicles but receives them on a build/operate deal. The deciding factor might be in the terms offered by the consortium chosen to operate the trains. If the consortium with the best operating deal involves CAF then that is what we get. The dollars involved is the bottom line to these deals. Anyhow, once all these new trains are up and running the service will definitely be privatized.
  s3_gunzel Not a gunzel developer

Location: Western Sydney, AU
Still why waste time with the staedler design and in relation to the recent post. Why was it a lost opportunity to not go for that swiss design instead of the CAF design?
These contracts are actually more like a wet lease deal. NSW Trains probably doesn't own the vehicles but receives them on a build/operate deal. The deciding factor might be in the terms offered by the consortium chosen to operate the trains. If the consortium with the best operating deal involves CAF then that is what we get. The dollars involved is the bottom line to these deals. Anyhow, once all these new trains are up and running the service will definitely be privatized.
nswtrains
This would be the same as the Waratahs and Mills and OSCars. Precedent is certainly there.
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
Still why waste time with the staedler design and in relation to the recent post. Why was it a lost opportunity to not go for that swiss design instead of the CAF design?
These contracts are actually more like a wet lease deal. NSW Trains probably doesn't own the vehicles but receives them on a build/operate deal. The deciding factor might be in the terms offered by the consortium chosen to operate the trains. If the consortium with the best operating deal involves CAF then that is what we get. The dollars involved is the bottom line to these deals. Anyhow, once all these new trains are up and running the service will definitely be privatized.
nswtrains
I think you mean "Dry Lease", "Wet Lease" means train + crew.

As for contracting out the Regional Trains operation (we all know it cannot privatised), maybe, maybe not. Lack of successful precedent in Aust does not provide a good indicator for the govt to follow and bigger fish to fry under the wires.
  jcouch Assistant Commissioner

Location: Asleep on a commuter train
Looks like things need to speed up.

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/cracks-in-critical-part-of-trains-forces-operator-to-cancel-services-20190905-p52o6i.html

Center pin cracked on at least 4 of the train sets, leading the fleet to be grounded.
  a6et Minister for Railways

Looks like things need to speed up.

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/cracks-in-critical-part-of-trains-forces-operator-to-cancel-services-20190905-p52o6i.html

Center pin cracked on at least 4 of the train sets, leading the fleet to be grounded.
jcouch
The fleet as such is not going to be grounded, one set has been taken off the Grafton run which will be replaced by buses.

IIRC, there were two extra power cars that were purchased as spares/replacements for sets in need.  The worst of this will be delays as they have to get the new pins supplied and fitted.  Little doubt this issue shows the age of the fleet and especially the pressures on the power cars.

From my perspective, with this happening the government should bite the bullet and fast track the replacement fleet that will take over from the XPT eventually, once the pins are replaced and the units totally checked/overhauled they should keep going for some years fairly well free of issues.

Passengers don't really feel the track affects on the carriages except when walking through the cars when at speed. Get up front in the cab and its a totally different experience with the ride you get/got and that's likely different today to when I was driving them owing to the better overall track conditions of the day.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

gees I wonder which section of track is causing this!!!!!!
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

New trains will be bi-modal.

https://www.facebook.com/prime7newswagga/videos/669678596886493/

Expect electrification to Bomaderry to be announced soon as well and also expect an increase in the fleet size to remove the need for DD's past Mt Victoria and more frequent services west of lithgow.
  tazzer96 Deputy Commissioner

Perfect opportunity to spark broadmeadow - telarah.  Most hunter line services can run electric and move the hunter sets elsewhere.  On top of that, at least 4 regional services each way would use the wires.
  nswtrains Chief Commissioner

New trains will be bi-modal.

https://www.facebook.com/prime7newswagga/videos/669678596886493/

Expect electrification to Bomaderry to be announced soon as well and also expect an increase in the fleet size to remove the need for DD's past Mt Victoria and more frequent services west of lithgow.
simstrain
No one in NSW Trains has heard about this development and I thought the design of the new regional trains was very much set in concrete.
  SydneyCider Chief Train Controller

If it happens that these new trains will be part electric and diesel powered, will be interesting to see if (and where) electrification is extended, for eg, Moss Vale, Maitland/Telerah, etc and if something like that were to happen, what that would mean for interurban services, ie, would you have a suburban electric doing shuttle runs between Newcastle Intg and Maitland/Telerah or some interurbans diverted to Maitland, while some go to Newcastle Intg. From the interview, it seems they were fairly eager to talk up the whole "better for environment" aspect with electrification.
  ANR Assistant Commissioner

Place a loco and powervan in front of every set and move on. I can't see any other option to keep the operation going. People are better off taking regional flights or driving themselves.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

New trains will be bi-modal.

https://www.facebook.com/prime7newswagga/videos/669678596886493/

Expect electrification to Bomaderry to be announced soon as well and also expect an increase in the fleet size to remove the need for DD's past Mt Victoria and more frequent services west of lithgow.
No one in NSW Trains has heard about this development and I thought the design of the new regional trains was very much set in concrete.
nswtrains

The design is set. The Civity has always had bi-modal support and adding it wouldn't be a huge issue.
  SydneyCider Chief Train Controller

It looks like they gave 7 News an exclusive for yesterday and today (26 September) updated the main website to confirm they are going for the bi-mode trains. The UK has gotten bi-mode trains in the last few years to replace their older long-distance rolling stock the "Azuma" trains.

https://www.transport.nsw.gov.au/projects/current-projects/regional-rail

Will be interesting to see how wide this rolling stock will be. There have been some calls to electrify the Kiama to Bomaderry line in the past but the complexity of some of the tunnels there probably for the double-deck wider stock meant the NSW Gov was not willing to do it. But if the Endeavour equivalents of these new trains are also bi-mode and narrower profile, they might re-consider. Add to that, if the switch between diesel and electric can happen on the fly while at line speed, they might re-activate the wires from Lithgow to just past Bowenfels which would mean these trains could run electric right through the more populated area immediately in and around the main Lithgow area.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

Bomaderry is the most obvious for electrification since that track is under Sydney trains control. Bathurst is also an option for electrification but don't expect anything south of macarthur to be electrified since that is under the stewardship of the ARTC. Same goes for the hunter line.

The width of these new trains should be the same 2.95 metres of the Xplorer, Endeavour and Hunter fleets. There should be no problems with any tunnels with these new regional trains.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

Place a loco and powervan in front of every set and move on. I can't see any other option to keep the operation going. People are hotter off taking regional flights or driving themselves.
ANR

This is not Victoria or 1950.
  nswtrains Chief Commissioner

Bomaderry is the most obvious for electrification since that track is under Sydney trains control. Bathurst is also an option for electrification but don't expect anything south of macarthur to be electrified since that is under the stewardship of the ARTC. Same goes for the hunter line.

The width of these new trains should be the same 2.95 metres of the Xplorer, Endeavour and Hunter fleets. There should be no problems with any tunnels with these new regional trains.
simstrain
I have travelled in those ex Night Rider passenger cars in Canada and they are 1 + 2 and appear very narrow. I would imagine they are narrower than the 2.95 metres of the existing traction fleet. I can't see the Spanish tooling up for a wider model for NSW. Any thoughts on this?

Still no word of this electro-diesel option in NSW Trains. They are usually quick to let staff know of developments such as this.
  bingley hall Minister for Railways

Location: Last train to Skaville


Still no word of this electro-diesel option in NSW Trains. They are usually quick to let staff know of developments such as this.
nswtrains

Have emailed one of the consortium partners seeking further info
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

The Azuma is only 2.7 metres wide which is only slightly wider then our light rail vehicles in Sydney at 2.65 metres. The new fleet will be around the 2.95 metre mark. The Xplorer is 2.921 metres and the Hunter rail car is 2.93 metres and so I expect the new trains to at least be this wide. CAF list the standard civity at 2.88 metres wide

It is possible they could be 3 metres wide but even still they won't have an issue with the tunnels because they are single deck. DD's have issues with width because they are taller at about 4.40 metres vs 4.11 metres of the xplorer.

As mentioned above the bi modal feature is now confirmed at this nsw transport link https://www.transport.nsw.gov.au/projects/current-projects/regional-rail
  SydneyCider Chief Train Controller

Just curious, how far west before ARTC have control of the lines and electrification would not be/be less of an option?

Also, an interesting question, with these bi-mode trains, the XPT version which goes to Melbourne. If the standard (or dual) gauge track they travel on has the Melbourne 1500V DC wires above it, would that mean they could raise the pans while in the bound of the Melbourne electrified network? or would various legal/jurisdiction issues mean this would not be allowed. I guess it's just like asking, if these trains were being built by the VIC government and traveled to Sydney, would they be allowed to raise the pans at Lithgow within Sydney's electrified network?
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

The ARTC takes over at Parkes and Dubbo.

As for the Pans in Melbourne it would only be a small area leading in to platform 1 at southern cross that would have the overhead. You probably answered your own question in regards to using the pans in Melbourne but maybe Vic rail might welcome a regional train that isn't spewing fumes in to southern cross station.

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