Melbourne Metro Rail Project Revived

 
Topic moved from News by bevans on 16 Feb 2015 17:54
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
Certainly some interesting comments and hearsay in the Twitter thread.  Sounds like structural steel contaminated with lead paint is an issue:


From February:
https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/workers-exposed-to-highly-toxic-lead-on-major-victorian-projects-20190212-p50x7k.html
Carnot
Some of the Extremely intelligent comments are
'Andrews gov ministry basically a collection of ex union organisers and office assistants. These unskilled ministers are in charge of multi billion $ departments. Victorian media not making Andrews gov accountable for spending blow outs. A lot of waste being covered up.'
and the same fellow
'Jacinta Allen out of her depth with this project. Nothing in her CV suggests she has the capabilities and skills to run large projects. She basically got into politics because of her dad's connections. Victorian journalism ignoring how unskilled the Andrews gov ministry is.'

Some Liberal MP Bashing the Government
'Danial Andrews & labor have already run $150 million over budget on metro tunnel early works & chewed up most of the project contingency - Now the Metro is late. Tunnel delays put pressure on $$ & generate inconvenience for commuters & longer congestion for drivers spring street'

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  ngarner Assistant Commissioner

Location: Seville
Late they may be but 'Joan' is almost completely re-assembled and ready to launch.


Neil
  chomper Junior Train Controller

Did anyone on here score a pass for the North Melb site tour today?
  ngarner Assistant Commissioner

Location: Seville
Did anyone on here score a pass for the North Melb site tour today?
chomper
Unfortunately, no, but someone from Metro Tunnel took photos of one group doing the tour and those pics are now on their website as is a video of an RPV gents explanation of the station box, how the TBMs operate and more. A lot more informative than some of their more usual updates.
Tour pics

Neil
  chomper Junior Train Controller

Dumb question perhaps, but have details been released on how the interchanges with Melb Central and Flinders St will look/work?
  Carnot Minister for Railways

Dumb question perhaps, but have details been released on how the interchanges with Melb Central and Flinders St will look/work?
chomper
Melb Central (called State Library) will be located North of Latrobe St.  The rail tunnel goes underneath the MURL.  There will be an underground pedestrian tunnel between the two stations (i.e under the LaTrobe St/Swanston St intersection).

Town Hall station (under Swanston St at City Square) will have similar underground pedestrian tunnels connecting it with Flinders St (and includes Degraves St underpass):
https://metrotunnel.vic.gov.au/construction/cbd/town-hall
  chomper Junior Train Controller

Dumb question perhaps, but have details been released on how the interchanges with Melb Central and Flinders St will look/work?
Melb Central (called State Library) will be located North of Latrobe St.  The rail tunnel goes underneath the MURL.  There will be an underground pedestrian tunnel between the two stations (i.e under the LaTrobe St/Swanston St intersection).

Town Hall station (under Swanston St at City Square) will have similar underground pedestrian tunnels connecting it with Flinders St (and includes Degraves St underpass):
https://metrotunnel.vic.gov.au/construction/cbd/town-hall
Carnot
I've read that previously, I thought the design might have progressed beyond the generalities in the links above.

If the concept drawings of how the CBD stations would look are accurate, my god they aren't pretty.
  Goose13 Station Master

Location: Having a sook about Southern cross's western wall
https://wongm.com/2017/12/connecting-melbourne-central-flinders-street-station-melbourne-metro/

Marcus Wong has some details on the connections themselves here.
  chomper Junior Train Controller
  PikachuSnr Beginner

Dumb question perhaps, but have details been released on how the interchanges with Melb Central and Flinders St will look/work?
Melb Central (called State Library) will be located North of Latrobe St.  The rail tunnel goes underneath the MURL.  There will be an underground pedestrian tunnel between the two stations (i.e under the LaTrobe St/Swanston St intersection).

Town Hall station (under Swanston St at City Square) will have similar underground pedestrian tunnels connecting it with Flinders St (and includes Degraves St underpass):
https://metrotunnel.vic.gov.au/construction/cbd/town-hall
I've read that previously, I thought the design might have progressed beyond the generalities in the links above.

If the concept drawings of how the CBD stations would look are accurate, my god they aren't pretty.
I agree with you. the recent concept drawings looks dull, though it may just have been the artist's drawings that made it look dull.
  ngarner Assistant Commissioner

Location: Seville
Press releases from late last week said that "Joan", the TBM, would launch, from North Melbourne towards Sth Kensington, this week and yet the only related media relating to this, this week, was about the delivery of some tunnel segments to facilitate the launch. Does anyone know anything about the failure to launch? If digging had begun you'd hear it from the rooftops!
Was it due to a delay in delivery of these tunnel segments, or some other cause?
Dan and co won't be impressed that their big build-up, including a priest blessing "Joan", media scrums with high-vi and hard hats, etc went from a peal of thunder to a pitiful squeak due to the failure to start digging.
Presumably Joan will launch in the next week or so but delays like this do nothing to impress, after all the chest thumping and 'look at what we are doing'.

Neil
  TOQ-1 Deputy Commissioner

Location: Power Trainger
The last social media post was an edited video that was uploaded Thursday night. This post states they were going from TBM Assembly to launch preparation.

Given the video has been edited to be presented properly, it was probably filmed either Wednesday or Thursday morning so the media team had enough time to get it ready and cleared by whoever's in charge. Given them Friday to do final testing etc. and that puts the launch back to early next week.

The second TBM Meg is also being assembled now apparently, so maybe that's parts of that being prioritised ahead of launching Joan.
  ngarner Assistant Commissioner

Location: Seville
The last social media post was an edited video that was uploaded Thursday night. This post states they were going from TBM Assembly to launch preparation.

Given the video has been edited to be presented properly, it was probably filmed either Wednesday or Thursday morning so the media team had enough time to get it ready and cleared by whoever's in charge. Given them Friday to do final testing etc. and that puts the launch back to early next week.

The second TBM Meg is also being assembled now apparently, so maybe that's parts of that being prioritised ahead of launching Joan.
TOQ-1
That makes sense but someone isn't sticking to the governments timeline!
Meg is supposed to be launched in September, according to Metro releases, so they could be trying to ensure that one goes when intended. Given that the distance from North Melbourne to Sth Kensington is, apparently, 1000m and these machines are capable of digging 10m a day that would put them at the retrieval shaft sometime in December 2019. Dis-assembling the body and returning it to North Melbourne will take time and presumably with some timeout for maintenance plus the Christmas/New Year shutdown they won't be heading for Parkville potentially until February or March.
As the distance to Parkville is also 1000m they'll get there about three months later and then be dragged through the station box to do the final leg to State Library, although how far that hasn't been stated, to my knowledge. The northern tunnels should be complete by the end of 2020 based on these estimates. Whether that is what the Metro tunnel plans intend, I don't know.
That still gives five years to fit out the tunnels, two stations and western entrance, so a delay of a week (in spite of my earlier rant) probably is neither here nor there in the long run.

Neil
  chomper Junior Train Controller

A question.

There are TBM's that can rip through basalt at 80m/day. Why did the government not go with such machines?

An example, the Robbins double shield:

https://www.therobbinscompany.com/products/tunnel-boring-machines/double-shield/
  ngarner Assistant Commissioner

Location: Seville
A question.

There are TBM's that can rip through basalt at 80m/day. Why did the government not go with such machines?

An example, the Robbins double shield:

https://www.therobbinscompany.com/products/tunnel-boring-machines/double-shield/
chomper
Looking at the Robbins double shield (following your link), I read it to mean the type of TBM used depends on what the ground conditions are like. I don't know what they're like where the tunnels are going but if they're not 'fractured hard rock' then a double shield may not work any better than the Herrneknecht ones that have been built for Melbourne. Considering there has been more than a little ground improvement work in the South Kensington area it doesn't sound as though we have constant rock conditions, which, from my reading, would prevent the double shield from working any faster than other types.
Price is always a factor with any government spend as well! Digging a bit deeper Robbins TBM's look to be assembled in China so there's little difference there.

Neil
  Adogs Chief Train Controller

From what I understand, if it's consistent stone, it can actually be easier to bore through than mud/clay/dirt as the latter has to be stabilised.

There's a subway line in central Berlin that has taken almost two decades to build a few km worth, because Berlin sits on a large amount of swampy land and it's essentially tunneling through soup that collapses back in on itself.  Plus the government insisted that one of the stations be building directly under the river, which has caused all sorts of problems - basically the groundwater has to be kept frozen so they can keep building.
  True Believers Chief Commissioner

Finally! Took a little longer than they planned, but tunnelling operation has finally started.

https://www.facebook.com/metrotunnel/videos/765230960600505/
  ngarner Assistant Commissioner

Location: Seville
Thanks for the heads up TB.
With Joan off & tunneling it'll be mid January now for the tunnel be completed to South Kensington. Move everything back a month and both of the tunnels to State Library should still be complete by the end of 2020, assuming Meg gets going in the next week or less. From the glimpse provided, by the clip that TB brought to our attention, Meg has a launch tube of her own to get her going, so hopefully it happens without Joan's delays.
Still better late than never!

Neil
  jdekorte Deputy Commissioner

Location: Near Caulfield Station
I've been watching the progress around South Yarra and construction has been moving at a rapid pace.  It looks like the top of the descent structure has been completed from the current Caulfield group tracks to the Sandringham line.  Between the Sandringham line and Osbourne St a very large box has been built with a huge crane on top of it - this will be used to remove spoil from the tunnel entrance underneath the roof slab.  In the cutting itself, ground is being prepared for the track slew.  A couple of weekends ago new overhead foundations were dug for the new south slew alignment and they are being prepared for the north slew aliginment.  An amount of signalling conduits have been installed between the cutting and Hawksburn.  Given the amount of ducts, junction boxes and other signalling works around Hawksburn I think I've reasoned out where the new Hawksburn turnback will be located - just west of the station itself.  It doesn't mention it on the South Yarra works notice yet, but the pattern for large-January shutdowns will probably mean that this January is when the track slew's to the north and south will be constructed - three tracks south and one track north.  This will enable the other end of the descent structure to be completed and excavation to start from underneath the roof slab.

With regards to the HCMT project that is also taking place, a few weeks ago all platforms at South Yarra were relaid with fresh ashphalt and raised so that they are level with train doors.  The platforms were also sloped towards the centre and new drains installed.  It's about time they did this. I'm hoping all other MATHS stations will get the same treatment, especaially Hawksburn which is a good vertical foot out of alignment with trains.
  Heihachi_73 Chief Commissioner

Location: Terminating at Ringwood
The TBMs are called Joan and Meg? Will there be a third one called Vinegar T... Vera? Smile
  ngarner Assistant Commissioner

Location: Seville
The TBMs are called Joan and Meg? Will there be a third one called Vinegar T... Vera? Smile
Heihachi_73
Nope, try Millie and Alice for the two still in China

Neil
  Adogs Chief Train Controller

The TBMs are called Joan and Meg? Will there be a third one called Vinegar T... Vera? Smile
Heihachi_73

Jeezus, is that a literary reference on RP?  I had to google it to work out where that was going.
  ngarner Assistant Commissioner

Location: Seville
A question.

There are TBM's that can rip through basalt at 80m/day. Why did the government not go with such machines?

An example, the Robbins double shield:

https://www.therobbinscompany.com/products/tunnel-boring-machines/double-shield/
chomper
From the Metro website:

The geology of the area is extremely variable. The TBMs will be required to excavate through very soft soils such as Coode Island Silt, and very hard basalts under the Yarra River and in some sections of the western alignment. Many sections of the tunnel alignment feature a ‘mixed-face’ geology, which is both parts hard and soft.

Soil conditions

This confirms a double shield wouldn't be very useful in Melbourne

Neil
  ngarner Assistant Commissioner

Location: Seville
Metro Tunnels latest newsletter (first one for almost a year) says that TBM Meg has been launched towards South Kensington but there's nothing anywhere else that I've seen to confirm that.

Newsletter

Neil
  jdekorte Deputy Commissioner

Location: Near Caulfield Station
Lots of interesting things are happening out west this week as work ramps up on the West Footscray project.  Including this addition - a new crossover between Footscray and Middle Footscray which will be very useful. Photo courtesy of VicSig.
http://vicsig.net/photo/23622

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