Frankston railway line to stretch to Mornington under bold new plans

 
Topic moved from News by dthead on 04 Oct 2019 14:45
  8077 Chief Train Controller

Location: Crossing the Rubicon
Returning trains to Mornington is not a silly idea it makes good sense if you think about it.  Continue the line down the coast where lots of people live and travel to and from work.  connect the new line (from the map) to the current line to Baxter and have a loop for some services.

Continue to build a line down the penninsula which really does need better rail services on the Port Phillip Side.

Frankston railway line to stretch to Mornington under bold new plans

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  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
Yeah, Nah
Pie in the sky stuff. Mornington is a tourist railway and they'll need to move or disband for this to happen. Baxter sparks extension is the only likely thing to happen in the next few decades. A Problem with Mornington line is that its been truncated to the industrial estate where it terminates and is surrounded by urban sprawl, to extend past Mornington you'll need to tunnel under or demolish hundreds of suburban shacks. Only likely things I see happening in the next few decades is the Stony point being partially to fully electrified, Mornington is borderline pie in the sky.

Still, the Stony Point service is more frequent and patronised than the local Bus and people who live around it are very fortunate to still have it.

This Reminds me of this pie in the sky overzealous foamer proposal. @x31 is that you in there?

http://peninsularaillink.net
  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
Why should a tourist railway be allowed to dictate the transport expansion for a railway line to many ?
  lkernan Deputy Commissioner

Location: Melbourne
Why should a tourist railway be allowed to dictate the transport expansion for a railway line to many ?
freightgate

It wouldn't.

Personally, i'd put the line back to Mornington and put the station at the Nepean Highway.  
It's only a block from the current end and with the way retail is popping up in different pockets around there it would work fine, similar to Cranbourne for example.
  True Believers Chief Commissioner

Yeah, Nah
Pie in the sky stuff. Mornington is a tourist railway and they'll need to move or disband for this to happen. Baxter sparks extension is the only likely thing to happen in the next few decades. A Problem with Mornington line is that its been truncated to the industrial estate where it terminates and is surrounded by urban sprawl, to extend past Mornington you'll need to tunnel under or demolish hundreds of suburban shacks. Only likely things I see happening in the next few decades is the Stony point being partially to fully electrified, Mornington is borderline pie in the sky.

Still, the Stony Point service is more frequent and patronised than the local Bus and people who live around it are very fortunate to still have it.

This Reminds me of this pie in the sky overzealous foamer proposal. @x31 is that you in there?

http://peninsularaillink.net
Dangersdan707
If you look and research into the person who produced the peninsula rail link, he's an aspirational politician, who can't make a decent website or rail map.

If you thought his peninsula rail link was crazy, check out his whole Victoria rail map proposal. Also, I skimmed through his transport document wanting to demolish freeways and roads to make way for more crazier schemes. It's foamy on another level. And it is riddled with mistakes, like one of the level crossings he listed as additional ones, were already part of the original 50 level crossing removals. Something not that hard to check.

Transport document is found here: http://www.robertwhitehill.net/Policies.html

I've never seen a rail map plan so poor executed like this, and the monorails? and no Metro 2 tunnel? Is this person really that delusional that he thinks this plan is even considerably financially sound?


  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
Yeah, Nah
Pie in the sky stuff. Mornington is a tourist railway and they'll need to move or disband for this to happen. Baxter sparks extension is the only likely thing to happen in the next few decades. A Problem with Mornington line is that its been truncated to the industrial estate where it terminates and is surrounded by urban sprawl, to extend past Mornington you'll need to tunnel under or demolish hundreds of suburban shacks. Only likely things I see happening in the next few decades is the Stony point being partially to fully electrified, Mornington is borderline pie in the sky.

Still, the Stony Point service is more frequent and patronised than the local Bus and people who live around it are very fortunate to still have it.

This Reminds me of this pie in the sky overzealous foamer proposal. @x31 is that you in there?

http://peninsularaillink.net
If you look and research into the person who produced the peninsula rail link, he's an aspirational politician, who can't make a decent website or rail map.

If you thought his peninsula rail link was crazy, check out his whole Victoria rail map proposal. Also, I skimmed through his transport document wanting to demolish freeways and roads to make way for more crazier schemes. It's foamy on another level. And it is riddled with mistakes, like one of the level crossings he listed as additional ones, were already part of the original 50 level crossing removals. Something not that hard to check.

Transport document is found here: http://www.robertwhitehill.net/Policies.html

I've never seen a rail map plan so poor executed like this, and the monorails? and no Metro 2 tunnel? Is this person really that delusional that he thinks this plan is even considerably financially sound?


True Believers
I know who Created it. IIRC a few years ago he made a 'Save the A Class petition'. I did see a few of his proposals Via the RRA, I am well aware of his character. He and his supporters staged a 'march' in rosebud in an attempt to garner support up for his proposal. Pie in the Sky, is more like pie on Mars.
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
Why should a tourist railway be allowed to dictate the transport expansion for a railway line to many ?

It wouldn't.

Personally, i'd put the line back to Mornington and put the station at the Nepean Highway.  
It's only a block from the current end and with the way retail is popping up in different pockets around there it would work fine, similar to Cranbourne for example.
lkernan
A major difference is that Cranbourne has a disused lines reserved corridor if the need to extend arise, Mornington Does not. This 'Proposal' mentions extensions from Mornington, at the current terminus this would be in the billions and impractical. I highly doubt the Mornington line will be reopened for a long while if ever.
  ngarner Assistant Commissioner

Location: Seville
If a rail line is to be extended further south on the peninsula why go for Mornington? All because there used to be a line there?
Why not think big and go for Dromana and beyond? Baxter to Dromana wouldn't be impossible with its undulating ground but get to Dromana and it really levels out. Going further southwest the slopes of Arthurs Seat would be a challenge but, again, past that, relatively flat.

Neil
  Adogs Chief Train Controller

If a rail line is to be extended further south on the peninsula why go for Mornington? All because there used to be a line there?
Why not think big and go for Dromana and beyond? Baxter to Dromana wouldn't be impossible with its undulating ground but get to Dromana and it really levels out. Going further southwest the slopes of Arthurs Seat would be a challenge but, again, past that, relatively flat.

Neil
ngarner

Mornington has a bigger population and catchment area though, plus a greater number of commuters heading to the city on a daily basis than the lower peninsula does.
  Adogs Chief Train Controller

Why should a tourist railway be allowed to dictate the transport expansion for a railway line to many ?

It wouldn't.

Personally, i'd put the line back to Mornington and put the station at the Nepean Highway.  
It's only a block from the current end and with the way retail is popping up in different pockets around there it would work fine, similar to Cranbourne for example.
A major difference is that Cranbourne has a disused lines reserved corridor if the need to extend arise, Mornington Does not. This 'Proposal' mentions extensions from Mornington, at the current terminus this would be in the billions and impractical. I highly doubt the Mornington line will be reopened for a long while if ever.
Dangersdan707

How does Mornington not have a reserved corridor?  It's clear pretty much the whole way from Baxter to the Moorooduc Hwy, then the tourist railway's easement is functioning the rest of the way almost to the Nepean.  Or is there a legal distinction that I'm not aware of?

In general, I agree with the commenters above - it won't ever be practical to build to the original terminus again, but a terminus on the east side of the Nepean is doable, and would only require reacquiring a small amount of the industrial estate.

FWIW the Peninsula Link freeway bridge over the rail corridor was also designed to allow future rebuilding and electrification, it's at least on the planners' radar as a possible future development.
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
Why should a tourist railway be allowed to dictate the transport expansion for a railway line to many ?

It wouldn't.

Personally, i'd put the line back to Mornington and put the station at the Nepean Highway.  
It's only a block from the current end and with the way retail is popping up in different pockets around there it would work fine, similar to Cranbourne for example.
A major difference is that Cranbourne has a disused lines reserved corridor if the need to extend arise, Mornington Does not. This 'Proposal' mentions extensions from Mornington, at the current terminus this would be in the billions and impractical. I highly doubt the Mornington line will be reopened for a long while if ever.

How does Mornington not have a reserved corridor?  It's clear pretty much the whole way from Baxter to the Moorooduc Hwy, then the tourist railway's easement is functioning the rest of the way almost to the Nepean.  Or is there a legal distinction that I'm not aware of?

In general, I agree with the commenters above - it won't ever be practical to build to the original terminus again, but a terminus on the east side of the Nepean is doable, and would only require reacquiring a small amount of the industrial estate.

FWIW the Peninsula Link freeway bridge over the rail corridor was also designed to allow future rebuilding and electrification, it's at least on the planners' radar as a possible future development.
Adogs
Cranbourne has a disused line's (South Gippsland's)   corridor protected if the need to extend arise, I was referring to reserved corridor or land to extend the line beyond its current terminus as the article suggests. Any attempt to extend a hypothetical reopened Mornington line from original or modern terminus would require an overzealous amount of money to tunnel or demolish suburbia.

Mornington Does not have any reserved land for any rail extension. Even a New Terminus on the eastern side of the Nepean or at the MRPS's Existing terminus would have no room to extend from. I Think the MPRS's existing terminus is fine as if it were extended to the Nepean highway it would cut off an existing road, facing their a new lightly used crossing or a road being cut in half. The Original terminus is long gone now, a ugly shopping centre in its place. remainder of the rail line is safe though.

You are correct with the Pen link Bridge, it has the capacity for 2 tracks and sparks, iirc initially they were going to originally build right over it, thank goodness for that!

If a rail line is to be extended further south on the peninsula why go for Mornington? All because there used to be a line there? Why not think big and go for Dromana and beyond? Baxter to Dromana wouldn't be impossible with its undulating ground but get to Dromana and it really levels out. Going further southwest the slopes of Arthurs Seat would be a challenge but, again, past that, relatively flat.
ngarner
Going from the exisiting or former Mornington terminus would be a massive challenge, Hundreds of buildings would need to be demolished or tunnelled under. Just run parallel to the freeway and in the freeway alinement at points. You'd be better off rebuilding the red hill line and extending it to Dromana if you ask me. Both are as equally Pie in the sky quality foamer dreams.
  nlan1 Beginner

I think it's a good idea - Mornington is a large town, it could be done at the same time as Baxter electrification and duplication (and benefit from the economy of scale created), and the rail reservation is still there, in spite of what is being said (see image attached).

However, the issue will be removing the level crossings on the line - I count 6 on the satellite map (there may be some I have missed) between Baxter and Mornington.
  John.Z Assistant Commissioner

Frankston/Baxter every 10mins, Mornington/Stony Point every 20.

Should be straight forward
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE

How does Mornington not have a reserved corridor?  It's clear pretty much the whole way from Baxter to the Moorooduc Hwy, then the tourist railway's easement is functioning the rest of the way almost to the Nepean.  Or is there a legal distinction that I'm not aware of?

In general, I agree with the commenters above - it won't ever be practical to build to the original terminus again, but a terminus on the east side of the Nepean is doable, and would only require reacquiring a small amount of the industrial estate.

FWIW the Peninsula Link freeway bridge over the rail corridor was also designed to allow future rebuilding and electrification, it's at least on the planners' radar as a possible future development.Cranbourne has a disused line's (South Gippsland's)   corridor protected if the need to extend arise, I was referring to reserved corridor or land to extend the line beyond its current terminus as the article suggests. Any attempt to extend a hypothetical reopened Mornington line from original or modern terminus would require an overzealous amount of money to tunnel or demolish suburbia.

Mornington Does not have any reserved land for any rail extension. Even a New Terminus on the eastern side of the Nepean or at the MRPS's Existing terminus would have no room to extend from. I Think the MPRS's existing terminus is fine as if it were extended to the Nepean highway it would cut off an existing road, facing their a new lightly used crossing or a road being cut in half. The Original terminus is long gone now, a ugly shopping centre in its place. remainder of the rail line is safe though.

You are correct with the Pen link Bridge, it has the capacity for 2 tracks and sparks, iirc initially they were going to originally build right over it, thank goodness for that!

If a rail line is to be extended further south on the peninsula why go for Mornington? All because there used to be a line there? Why not think big and go for Dromana and beyond? Baxter to Dromana wouldn't be impossible with its undulating ground but get to Dromana and it really levels out. Going further southwest the slopes of Arthurs Seat would be a challenge but, again, past that, relatively flat.
Going from the exisiting or former Mornington terminus would be a massive challenge, Hundreds of buildings would sprawl to be demolished or tunnelled under. Just run parallel to the freeway and in the freeway alinement at points. You'd be better off rebuilding the red hill line and extending it to Dromana if you ask me. Both are as equally Pie in the sky quality foamer dreams.
Dangersdan707
A quick check of the sprawl and you can see the population is to the south, not west of the current terminus, so hard to see why you would want to spend millions to cross the Nepean highway just because the line used to cross the highway and who wants a railway station in the middle of a shopping centre anyway. Worst possible place for commuter line.

As said above,
- Close the section of Yules road at the LX
- Buy up those 2-3 businesses between Yulles Road and the Highway. TOW land is not developed but you need parking and Kiss'n'Ride. This will be cheap.
- Extend a single stub track and build station along side (no need for loops)
- Local buses run via station as well as commuter car park, bike rack and drop off.

Job done, station is now next to a junction on two major roads headed in all four directions.

- DMU starts from Frankston or Baxter. If Frankston line extended to Baxter you could have the DMU set servicing both lines.

- MRPS compensated by being paid to relocate to a section of the South Gippsland Railway including funding suitable track upgrade.
  LancedDendrite Chief Commissioner

Location: Gheringhap Loop Autonomous Zone
- MRPS compensated by being paid to relocate to a section of the South Gippsland Railway including funding suitable track upgrade.
RTT_Rules
You wash your mouth out, son.

Commuter rail to Dromana or even Mornington is a preposterous thought bubble. Even electrifying to Stony Point (and that’s a massive waste too) is a more sensible idea than that.

We need to build a direct & frequent bus network to service the Mornington Peninsula. Leave the heritage railway alone. Catch a goddamn bus.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
- MRPS compensated by being paid to relocate to a section of the South Gippsland Railway including funding suitable track upgrade.
You wash your mouth out, son.

Commuter rail to Dromana or even Mornington is a preposterous thought bubble. Even electrifying to Stony Point (and that’s a massive waste too) is a more sensible idea than that.

We need to build a direct & frequent bus network to service the Mornington Peninsula. Leave the heritage railway alone. Catch a goddamn bus.
The HR operator could use the same tracks on Sunday.
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Norda Fittazroy
Is this really a plan, or just an idea that somebody dreamed up in the bath one evening.
If it is a genuine plan, who planned it, and where is all the detail?
  lkernan Deputy Commissioner

Location: Melbourne
Is this really a plan, or just an idea that somebody dreamed up in the bath one evening.
If it is a genuine plan, who planned it, and where is all the detail?
Valvegear

It's a thought bubble by the Committee for Greater Frankston that got picked up by the Herald Sun.
  Heihachi_73 Chief Commissioner

Location: Terminating at Ringwood
Now we just need to build a tram line from Mornington to Frankston to Sandringham to St Kilda and join up with the 96. Laughing
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Norda Fittazroy
Now we just need to build a tram line from Mornington to Frankston to Sandringham to St Kilda and join up with the 96.
"Heihachi_73"
Nah. Start a hovercraft service.
  SinickleBird Assistant Commissioner

Location: Qantas Club at Mudgee International Airport
Funnily enough, I know people who commute from Mornington to city by helicopter. Probably an indication of the wealth of (some) residents.

Or does this comment belong in the climate change thread?
  trainbrain Chief Commissioner

Funnily enough, I know people who commute from Mornington to city by helicopter. Probably an indication of the wealth of (some) residents.

Or does this comment belong in the climate change thread?
SinickleBird
Whats Climate Change?
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Norda Fittazroy
Whats Climate Change?
"trainbrain"
It's the weather going through menopause.
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
This Thread is drowning in foam
A quick check of the sprawl and you can see the population is to the south, not west of the current terminus, so hard to see why you would want to spend millions to cross the Nepean highway just because the line used to cross the highway and who wants a railway station in the middle of a shopping centre anyway.
Worst possible place for commuter line. As said above, - Close the section of Yules road at the LX - Buy up those 2-3 businesses between Yulles Road and the Highway. TOW land is not developed but you need parking and Kiss'n'Ride.
This will be cheap. - Extend a single stub track and build station along side (no need for loops) - Local buses run via station as well as commuter car park, bike rack and drop off. Job done, station is now next to a junction on two major roads headed in all four directions. - DMU starts from Frankston or Baxter.
If Frankston line extended to Baxter you could have the DMU set servicing both lines. - MRPS compensated by being paid to relocate to a section of the South Gippsland Railway including funding suitable track upgrade.
RTT_Rules
Its entirely pointless crossing the Nepean to its Original terminus. I'd Guess that existing terminus would be rebuilt and realigned to face southwards. Well, the government built a station at southland, largely to serve the Mall there.

The MRPS to move from the peninsula would be suicide, its base of volunteers and supporters is around the area and it formed out of the 'Save the Mornington Passenger Service' group back in the 80's, its intertwined. If the SGR failed I doubt the MRPS could succeed.

Funnily enough, I know people who commute from Mornington to city by helicopter. Probably an indication of the wealth of (some) residents.
trainbrain
It is indeed, only the Uber wealthy can afford to do it as they chew soo much fuel. Its pretty limited though as the council a while aback got quite a few complaints about it and thus its even more restricted than it was prior.
Is this really a plan, or just an idea that somebody dreamed up in the bath one evening. If it is a genuine plan, who planned it, and where is all the detail?
Valvegear
Its pointless foam from a local community group that some jurno thought would make a decent page turner.

Commuter rail to Dromana or even Mornington is a preposterous thought bubble. Even electrifying to Stony Point (and that’s a massive waste too) is a more sensible idea than that. We need to build a direct & frequent bus network to service the Mornington Peninsula. Leave the heritage railway alone. Catch a goddamn bus.
Lanceddenderite
Correct! However the Busses in that area are so infrequent and lightly patronized they may as well not exist. Even if they were made to move, red hill, as foamy and unlikely as it is would make a better spot for them

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