The End of the Internal Combustion Engine is Nigh

 
  Carnot Chief Commissioner

Watch for more added impetus away from IC Engines with the likelihood of oil prices skyrocketing amidst the escalating war between Saudi Arabia and Yemen after 500 Saudi soldiers were killed, and 2000 captured by Iranian backed Houthi rebels on the weekend....

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/09/yemen-houthi-rebels-release-saudi-attack-video-190929130644121.html

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  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
Watch for more added impetus away from IC Engines with the likelihood of oil prices skyrocketing amidst the escalating war between Saudi Arabia and Yemen after 500 Saudi soldiers were killed, and 2000 captured by Iranian backed Houthi rebels on the weekend....

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/09/yemen-houthi-rebels-release-saudi-attack-video-190929130644121.html
Carnot
I would treat this news article with a grain of salt. There is no evidence of this apart from what they released themselves which goes against their own previous conventions and Aljazeera is supported by the same people who support Houthi's.
  ANR Assistant Commissioner

It costs around $11,500 to replace a battery in a Nissan Leaf, with a warranty of 160,000km. (NRMA Open Road, July/August 2019).

Given the cost of a new EV, I.e. much higher than a combustion engine car, it doesn't make sense to buy one. ... Who is going to want to buy your EV trade in at 160,000km?

For now, diesel and petrol can't be beaten...
True, on economics alone you would not buy a EV, its purely a emotional/personal choice. For the higher end EV's its also about performance and from what I understand they pretty much s__t over anything burning hydrocarbons.

Battery life, I believe that Tesla initially had plans for a battery exchange service but gave it all away when they found that in normal service, the battery's were not failing during the life of the car or at least as of yet. By the time the battery is likely to fail the value of the vehicle even with a good battery will be too low to warrant paying for a new battery.

I also read that most of the original Toyota Prius battery's now around 11-2 years old while suffering from some degradation are still performing to a satisfactory level. The taxi we caught in Cairns last year was a Prius and the driver said that due to the heat and driving they do they do replace the batteries at least once during the cars life as a taxi, but still an economic solution over a standard ICE power car.

On the flip side, my wife's Toyota Zelas is around 5 years old, 220,000km on the clock and listed as worth around $2000-2500 on a good day not bad for someone driving 50,000 to 60,000kmpa. If the engine or box failed tomorrow (standard Camry units), I won't be buying a new or recon engine rather I'll be looking for a newer car and selling her car to a wrecker. However the average Dubai Camry Taxi pulls 750,000 to 1,000,000km before retirement in 3.5years of service so hopefully not an issue any time soon for us.
RTT_Rules
I thought I would dredge this sub-thread in light of a recent story of a leaf owner who had barely made it to 90,000 km on the odo in 7 years is now forced to choose between scrapping his $53,000 purchase, or spending a further $33,000 to install a new battery. Looks like the Open Road got it wrong that a battery replacement for the leaf would cost circa $12K.

Even more confronting is the maths that Cadogan does in the following Youtube Post on the real cost of being green. It amounts to ecological vandalism.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_zdtaJeYmw
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
I thought I would dredge this sub-thread in light of a recent story of a leaf owner who had barely made it to 90,000 km on the odo in 7 years is now forced to choose between scrapping his $53,000 purchase, or spending a further $33,000 to install a new battery. Looks like the Open Road got it wrong that a battery replacement for the leaf would cost circa $12K.

Even more confronting is the maths that Cadogan does in the following Youtube Post on the real cost of being green. It amounts to ecological vandalism.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_zdtaJeYmw
ANR
$33,000, he's being screwed over big time. Get a quote for someone in Sydney and have it towed there.

Heaps of posts in interweb that says around US$5000-8000 + installation which is a few hundred bucks.

The Leaf's battery is air cooled, which leads to higher failure rates, its cheaper, but in cooler climates should be ok.

The new Leaf with its 250miles of range 50kWh battery is better than the older ones by a long shot. They are finally coming to Dubai soon (likely heat and battery life was a road block before). If the Mrs Toyota Zelas was to meet an untimely end, this is a potential replacement and she does 250km/day at 120-140km/h.
  Groundrelay Chief Commissioner

Location: Surrounded by Trolls!
I thought I would dredge this sub-thread in light of a recent story of a leaf owner who had barely made it to 90,000 km on the odo in 7 years is now forced to choose between scrapping his $53,000 purchase, or spending a further $33,000 to install a new battery. Looks like the Open Road got it wrong that a battery replacement for the leaf would cost circa $12K.

Even more confronting is the maths that Cadogan does in the following Youtube Post on the real cost of being green. It amounts to ecological vandalism.

...$33,000, he's being screwed over big time. Get a quote for someone in Sydney and have it towed there.

Heaps of posts in interweb that says around US$5000-8000 + installation which is a few hundred bucks.

The Leaf's battery is air cooled, which leads to higher failure rates, its cheaper, but in cooler climates should be ok.

The new Leaf with its 250miles of range 50kWh battery is better than the older ones by a long shot. They are finally coming to Dubai soon (likely heat and battery life was a road block before). If the Mrs Toyota Zelas was to meet an untimely end, this is a potential replacement and she does 250km/day at 120-140km/h.
RTT_Rules
Nothing new about bleeding edge technology or how manufactures rip off consumers on parts.
The upside, like all 'crisis' driven technological change is it does tend to get better. EV is fine for congested cities where public transport isn't a practical option and if vehicles were charged for polluting those cities then it would be a more equitable comparison. Rechargeable batteries are everywhere but little if any recycling occurs. Unless that changes EV's with current battery technology is unsustainable. Hydrogen fuel cell perhaps?
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
Nothing new about bleeding edge technology or how manufactures rip off consumers on parts.
The upside, like all 'crisis' driven technological change is it does tend to get better. EV is fine for congested cities where public transport isn't a practical option and if vehicles were charged for polluting those cities then it would be a more equitable comparison. Rechargeable batteries are everywhere but little if any recycling occurs. Unless that changes EV's with current battery technology is unsustainable. Hydrogen fuel cell perhaps?
Groundrelay
Yes, Mechanic rip offs are far from new full stop.

EV batteries are already being refurbished and reconditioned. Was talking to a guy in the US that said older Leaf car owners basically trade in their battery for a reconditioned old one, not new. In 2017 the EV battery recycle market was worth around $140m globally.

There are also a 2ndry industries starting up using EV batteries for other duties such as cheaper way to store PV solar on your house. For example an aged 50kWh battery that has lost 1/3 of its charge and less attractive for road use is still a good battery for house hold use and still alot bigger than most commercial offerings.

I would also challenge that EV's are better for congested cities. No reason you cannot own one in rural areas, especially if you are a two car family. For example if you lived at Dubbo there are fast charging stations to travel to Brisbane, Melbourne and Sydney, certainly not as convenient as petrol, for now, but depends on what you want and how often you drive. We lived in Gladstone Qld, one of our cars in the entire 4y time we owned it never left Gladstone except for one trip to Rockhampton, 100km away.

Recently there was an article about Wagga Wagga council buying a Hyundai Iqonic and that it was useless to drive to Sydney. Wagga Wagga council boundary is is less than 150km by 150km with Wagga roughly in the middle. Yes I agree the car is not idea to drive to Sydney, but why does it need to? Isn't it a council work car, it has the range to drive to any corner of the council area and back again with plenty to spare. Remember its a council car, put it on charge each night and it has a full tank in the AM.

As most EV owners will say, you don't realise how bad peoples perceptions are until you actually buy an EV and quickly realise it wasn't an issue in the first place. However currently they are not for everyone, mainly due to limitations in choice of models. Issues with lack of fast chargers is progressively being resolved and range phobia is more in people's head than in real life.

I also don't support taxing ICE cars at this stage and not likely for another 10 years until the EV market including recharging stations is on par with ICE.
  Carnot Chief Commissioner

Talking of range phobia - I have a relative who has a horror story about being stranded many km away from home and had to rely on a close friend to pick her up in his EV at short notice.

Halfway there the EV battery drained flat, then a 2 hour slow charge to get just enough range to get to stranded relative.

And a trip back home that took twice as long as it should've due to the need to charge battery again.

She was NOT impressed....
  lkernan Deputy Commissioner

Location: Melbourne

Recently there was an article about Wagga Wagga council buying a Hyundai Iqonic and that it was useless to drive to Sydney.
RTT_Rules

In the past couple of months several rapid charge stations have opened or been announced as under construction that would make that trip easy.  Chargefox has Gundagai and soon Goulburn, NRMA has Jugiong and Mittagong

The chargers are starting to appear at a rapid pace in NSW thanks to NRMA.   They've got a Kona that's been attending all the openings, all over the state.

https://www.mynrma.com.au/community/initiatives/electric-vehicle-fast-charging-network
  speedemon08 Mary

Location: I think by now you should have figured it out
My dad was looking at getting a Corolla Hybrid... the salesman done a rough calculation which put it at him only using the fuel tank at worst once or twice a month depending on how often he decided to go to Melbourne from Gippsland.

People scream about range anxiety, but hell even I could comfortably fit a tesla esque range for an electric car in my day to day life and I average 40,000km a year, let alone all those people who are in cities and barely go 4 suburbs over.
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
Reply too all three comments from above

- Yes, I've been picked up in a petrol car once and had to push it into a petrol station. With time, more fast chargers, more destinations chargers, larger batteries, these issues will disappear for EV's. Remember when the first EV's arrived, many had their own non-compatible plugs. Now only Tesla Fast charger is different and you can get an adapter for that.

Additional issues included free chargers be "hogged" by someone who connects their car then hits the casino for 4 h. This is what happens when something is free. The pay as you go chargers usually have time and kW charging so that is discourages the user to leave their car for long periods of time. Get your 80-85% and get off, or the charge will actually stop at this and you will pay by the minute to stay. More charging stations will help solve this issue as well.

- Agree, there are a number of programs by different bodies expanding both the fast charger and destination charger networks. NZ is unfortunately ahead of us and I know two i3 users over there and neither live in major centres, one 100km from Q'town, the other 2h from Auckland. Anyway, good to see Australia finally getting a move on with this, but the number of models on offer didn't help the cause. Within 2 years the EV fleet on the road will likely be 5 x as many.

Some will disagree with this, but an interesting video by "answers with Joe" on Youtube, he showed a survey which said some EV owners like the fact they are forced to stop for 30min or so every 3h, take a longer break at some of these road side fast charging locations. Ok, not for everyone.

Also something people need to remember, if you can charge your car at home (yes we know not everyone can), its 100% full every morning. How often to you refill your current car twice a day?

- Hybrid, yes I know a few people say the same. Petrol stations are visited once a month.

My wife drives 240km round trip every work day for work. Her 2014 Zelas bought in 1 year old 2015 May with 10,000km on it, has 240,000km on it. Thats with 8mth lost due to Chemo etc, so if not for that she'd have another 40,000km. Average speed is around 120km/h, top legal speed 140km/h.

Any of today's Tesla models Leaf and some others are more than capable of doing this round trip each day at the higher highway speeds of UAE with room to spare, some may allow a 2nd trip. But we have option to charge at home. Power cost per day is A$8, based on Dubai power prices, slightly cheaper than petrol in her current car.

We previously looked at hybrid for her, but the continuous highway driving doesn't really make sense. If we are still here in another two years and look like going at least another two years, she wants an EV. (yes despite UAE's cheaper petrol prices, there are alot of EV's here, people mostly buying them on their performance, not energy saved)
  Graham4405 Minister for Railways

Location: Dalby Qld
Recently there was an article about Wagga Wagga council buying a Hyundai Iqonic and that it was useless to drive to Sydney. Wagga Wagga council boundary is is less than 150km by 150km with Wagga roughly in the middle. Yes I agree the car is not idea to drive to Sydney, but why does it need to? Isn't it a council work car, it has the range to drive to any corner of the council area and back again with plenty to spare. Remember its a council car, put it on charge each night and it has a full tank in the AM.
RTT_Rules
Council vehicles often have need to travel well beyond Council boundaries. For example when I worked for Council two members of our department staff would travel 7 hours each way for a conference annually. Other times there is need to travel beyond Council boundaries to do business, visit other Councils for meetings, to share experiences and/or ideas etc. There are many reasons.

In your role don't you sometimes travel outside your company's business place in a company vehicle?
  Carnot Chief Commissioner

I had to laugh at this stuff-up by Tesla:
https://jalopnik.com/worst-case-scenario-for-older-teslas-coming-to-fruition-1839105865

The issue concerns a flash storage chip, called the eMMC, that’s embedded on a piece of onboard technology called the MCU1. Flash  storage is form of computer memory that can be electrically erased and reprogrammed to help a computer perform tasks quickly and efficiently. It is often used in computers, USB drives, digital cameras, and networking hardware. According to multiple repair professionals, Teslas are writing vehicle logs to this flash storage chip so frequently that the chip stops working properly.


Apparently $3000+ to replace.
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
Recently there was an article about Wagga Wagga council buying a Hyundai Iqonic and that it was useless to drive to Sydney. Wagga Wagga council boundary is is less than 150km by 150km with Wagga roughly in the middle. Yes I agree the car is not idea to drive to Sydney, but why does it need to? Isn't it a council work car, it has the range to drive to any corner of the council area and back again with plenty to spare. Remember its a council car, put it on charge each night and it has a full tank in the AM.
Council vehicles often have need to travel well beyond Council boundaries. For example when I worked for Council two members of our department staff would travel 7 hours each way for a conference annually. Other times there is need to travel beyond Council boundaries to do business, visit other Councils for meetings, to share experiences and/or ideas etc. There are many reasons.

In your role don't you sometimes travel outside your company's business place in a company vehicle?
Graham4405
Very true Graham, I suppose it gets down to what is the vehicle needed for and can they accommodate other routine matters with existing options.

Living in Dubai I'll say one of the big differences between Dubai and Australia is that here people to more readily rent cars on a as needs basis. ie car in for service, still need to get to work, own a sedan want to go into the desert with the family that sort fo thing.

We rented a Camry two months ago for 2 weeks while our cars took turns to get some minor panel work done. Wife's car was 1/2 resprayed to look near new again after sand erosion to the paint due to sustained high speed driving and my car two minor whoops fixed on front and rear bumpers. I got the car from Avis and she was asking where I lived and what I wanted the car for. Her comment for most common reason for local residents to was one to get it fixed/services, 2nd, long drive coming up and not wanting to put the extra km on the car.

I'm also aware in places like NY they rent cars like getting a taxi as few people actually own a car or the car they own is not suited for a big family road trip.

I suspect Australia is headed this direction too with more people living in apartments and with car sizes going down and car hire costs coming down.  Live in Sydney and have a 2000km driving holiday coming up with 4 adults, perhaps the beloved Fiat 500 in the garage or Suzuki Swift isn't really the best choice.

We already have those companies now with road side hire by the km/min using your mobile phone popping up. No need to head off to the local car hire depo company in their hours any more.

EV's may see this cultural change evolve further.
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
I had to laugh at this stuff-up by Tesla:
https://jalopnik.com/worst-case-scenario-for-older-teslas-coming-to-fruition-1839105865

The issue concerns a flash storage chip, called the eMMC, that’s embedded on a piece of onboard technology called the MCU1. Flash  storage is form of computer memory that can be electrically erased and reprogrammed to help a computer perform tasks quickly and efficiently. It is often used in computers, USB drives, digital cameras, and networking hardware. According to multiple repair professionals, Teslas are writing vehicle logs to this flash storage chip so frequently that the chip stops working properly.


Apparently $3000+ to replace.
Carnot
Well the problem for Tesla is that they don't give you a reason to replace your existing Tesla. The older S-models are very similar to the current models with the software on older cars upgraded frequently to match the new. They also automated or at least made so much of the car connected to the computer as much as possible that manual systems are few and far between. The newer cars have not have any significant body changes to look any different. Metallic paint or at least more exciting colours are still lacking. Really its just the newer cars have a larger battery is the main difference.

So at last there is one part of the car that ages apart from the tyres.
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
How many people here either own, or have at least read the owner’s manual to an EV, or better yet Tesla?

The range figures they give you are misleading at best in everyday use.

Travelling 40,000km pa really only means you’re travelling 100km and some change per day. As soon as you want to travel 4 to 6 hours away your non pocket money EV is either useless, or more of a hinderance in terms of range than an equivalent ICE.

A few weeks ago we fully juiced a diesel Audi A7 and drove it effectively non stop from ‘down town’ Ostrów, Poland to Hintertux, Tyrol, Austria - look it up, neigh on exactly 1000km.

The only stops made for the wife’s two toilet stops in Germany. The average speed (in terms of the journey, not just whilst we were moving) was well above 100km/hr, despite Austrian attempts to prolong the trip with endless roadworks and associated hold ups. Polish highways being posted at 140, with that being quite exceeded as a matter of routine and German autobahn speeds above 200, sometimes 240-260 particularly through Munich.

Try doing that in a Tesla or some other EV.
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
How many people here either own, or have at least read the owner’s manual to an EV, or better yet Tesla?

The range figures they give you are misleading at best in everyday use.

Travelling 40,000km pa really only means you’re travelling 100km and some change per day. As soon as you want to travel 4 to 6 hours away your non pocket money EV is either useless, or more of a hinderance in terms of range than an equivalent ICE.

A few weeks ago we fully juiced a diesel Audi A7 and drove it effectively non stop from ‘down town’ Ostrów, Poland to Hintertux, Tyrol, Austria - look it up, neigh on exactly 1000km.

The only stops made for the wife’s two toilet stops in Germany. The average speed (in terms of the journey, not just whilst we were moving) was well above 100km/hr, despite Austrian attempts to prolong the trip with endless roadworks and associated hold ups. Polish highways being posted at 140, with that being quite exceeded as a matter of routine and German autobahn speeds above 200, sometimes 240-260 particularly through Munich.

Try doing that in a Tesla or some other EV.
Aaron
Hi Aaron,
Do you want a Hi-5 for this?

No I havn't read the Tesla Manual. I bought a brand new Toyota Aurion in 2011 and read about 3 sections, mostly how to operate the entertainment system and sync my phone and now I have near new Ford Ranger Wildtrac and I have yet to unwrap the manual. In both cases the manuals are bi-lingual so extra fat and annoying waste of space in my glove compartment I suspect like most people I'm not alone here and we know the manuals a purely a legal requirement and otherwise rarely used especially if you are not upgrading your 1980 Holden Commodore to a 2019 top model Audi A8.

So you drove an Audi A7 1000km without refueling, yah. I did same in near same location in an Audi A4 in 2011 and Citron C4 from Vienna to Monte Carlo 3 years back. My Ford Ranger at 140km/h gets 750km off the tank, in Aust it would likely get 1000km. Did I do either of these trips in one trip? No, no more than 300km in one day as it was not a race, thats what planes are for.

1000km in 8-9h on one tank and only two stops for your wife's toiletry needs. You have an outstanding bladder for a middle aged male! I think you have either left something out or not provided all the info, maybe reusing a water bottle?

Some of the latest models would do the same trip in 2 or maybe 3 charges. Assuming your toilet breaks were 10min in duration each and you connected to a fast charger both times you would get 200-250km per toilet stop of charge. So an EV with 500km of real world range from the start could maybe do the same trip with realistic 2-3 toilet breaks (ie 20-30min) on a fast charger.

Basically most petrol cars on the road could not do 1000km on one tank, especially driving at speed and go back 15 years, almost no diesel could do it either and in both cases range is being artificially capped by car markers reducing fuel tank size as fuel efficiency improves. If you notice the recent Camry's have had their fuel tanks reduced to 60L as their range is now around 800km, in 2010 their range was 600-650km on a 65L tank. Go back another 20 years and their range was around 500km.

Not every car suits everyone and EV's are a work in progress on the steep end of the curve but becoming more mainstream in price and practicality. Nissan Leaf's range has gone from around ~200km to ~400km within 5 years and its more powerful. Likewise the Tesla's and others. Within 5 years its fair to say 600km for the average EV will likely be standard with some models in final development of 1000km.

So lets say within 5 years, the pi$$ing contest of "range" will be a dead duck. In reality it is now if buying some of the latest EV models. Honestly for me, I couldn't give a crap as if anyone thinks I will sit in a car, driver or passenger for more than 3-4h or 400km at a strength without stretching my legs will be in for a correction. So as long every 3-4h there is a fast charger within easy reach, a toilet, something nice to look at and maybe even eat and with kids a playground, I'm happy and I suspect most people are the same. The range freaks can continue to achieve hero status if they so wish.
  wobert Chief Commissioner

Location: Half way between Propodolla and Kinimakatka
How many people here either own, or have at least read the owner’s manual to an EV, or better yet Tesla?

The range figures they give you are misleading at best in everyday use.

Travelling 40,000km pa really only means you’re travelling 100km and some change per day. As soon as you want to travel 4 to 6 hours away your non pocket money EV is either useless, or more of a hinderance in terms of range than an equivalent ICE.

A few weeks ago we fully juiced a diesel Audi A7 and drove it effectively non stop from ‘down town’ Ostrów, Poland to Hintertux, Tyrol, Austria - look it up, neigh on exactly 1000km.

The only stops made for the wife’s two toilet stops in Germany. The average speed (in terms of the journey, not just whilst we were moving) was well above 100km/hr, despite Austrian attempts to prolong the trip with endless roadworks and associated hold ups. Polish highways being posted at 140, with that being quite exceeded as a matter of routine and German autobahn speeds above 200, sometimes 240-260 particularly through Munich.

Try doing that in a Tesla or some other EV.
Aaron
So your implying there will be no increase in the range of electric vehicles in the future..........ever driven a 20 year old diesel? You just dont understand that vision/evolution concept do you.

https://www.theneweconomy.com/energy/innoliths-breakthrough-electric-vehicle-battery-could-increase-range-to-600-miles




It's just around the corner.........you were saying....
  Graham4405 Minister for Railways

Location: Dalby Qld
Umm, we seem to be forgetting that road vehicles are the only things that are powered by internal combustion engines. Lawnmowers, other garden tools, yellow plant, farm machinery, railway locomotives, aeroplanes, boats, ships and probably many more things.
Graham4405
I'm still waiting for the discussion on things that are not cars, especially those things bigger than cars...

Electric airliner or aircraft carrier anyone?
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
I don’t know about electric airliners, but aircraft carriers, shipping in general, are/will be very adequately served by nuclear.
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
Like all things technology follows the biggest bang for your buck.

Nearly everyone has a car and nearly everyone who does has a power point. Put 2 a d 2 together and bang electric car makes sense.

Also remember in Australia we have this for ever feeling of being ripped off by petrol companies, so go EV and quit the bitching.

There is one very short commercial flight that will go electric soon. It's a condition of contract, I think next year in Scotland. But it's still decades away for anything sizeable.

Ships have told mextcyear SO2 emissions must be reduced, or have limited trade options. As Aaron said, there have been nuclear electric subs got 50 years. Only will is stopping more.
  apw5910 Deputy Commissioner

Location: Location: Location.
I don’t know about electric airliners, but aircraft carriers, shipping in general, are/will be very adequately served by nuclear.
Aaron
Dr Borst's X-12 nuclear powered loco: https://books.google.com.au/books?id=xyADAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA137&lpg=PA137&dq=nuclear+locomotive+x-12+borst&source=bl&ots=XptH2G8tgT&sig=ACfU3U2HFDWldExEFfZdaVDqLd0ZRhT23A&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiSzcierqflAhW563MBHYVED5IQ6AEwGnoECAkQAQ#v=onepage&q=nuclear%20locomotive%20x-12%20borst&f=false
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
A nuclear powered locomotive would be a spectacularly dumb idea.

A 1/15 cubic metre of U235 ‘solution’ - little details are given. I see no mention of enrichment level or concentration.

I cannot be bothered reading the patents that are likely rubbish anyway but I don’t think that would produce 7000hp (about 5MW) continuous for a year - because the ‘reactor’ isn’t moderated.
  Graham4405 Minister for Railways

Location: Dalby Qld
There is one very short commercial flight that will go electric soon. It's a condition of contract, I think next year in Scotland. But it's still decades away for anything sizeable.
RTT_Rules


So, the end of the Internal Combustion Engine is NOT nigh then, end of topic?
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
There is one very short commercial flight that will go electric soon. It's a condition of contract, I think next year in Scotland. But it's still decades away for anything sizeable.


So, the end of the Internal Combustion Engine is NOT nigh then, end of topic?
Graham4405
...and boat engines will be some time to convert as well.
  HardWorkingMan Chief Commissioner

Location: Echuca
and tractors?  here in rural Victoria they often run 24/7 less 2 10 minute stops in the paddock to refuel and swap drivers. this happens multiple times a year as the work often has to be done to fit in with the weather.  I think it will be a fair while before electric tractors can handle this sort of work.  

The bigger issue at the moment is the lack of electricity to cope with summer with brown outs/blackouts becoming common in hot weather as the air-conditioning systems cool the inside of buildings and transfer the heat outside into the concrete jungle.  My area is a net exporter of electricity in summer due to the number of solar panels and amount of sunlight we get meaning they are usually generating full power.  Therefore we are unlikely to suffer a brown out as that would reduce the power available elsewhere in the state as they need a trickle of power off the grid to keep the inverters working so they can export the generated power elsewhere (just as a vehicle alternator needs some power in to generate much more power out).  Also electricity isn't cheap here making the economics of an electric vehicle less viable.

I am not against electric vehicles just realise they are not the cure-all some people think they are

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