T6 Carlingford Line closure for Parramatta Light Rail

 
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
Nothing is going to happen to the platforms and tracks at clyde because there is no benefit to removing them. The level crossing will be closed but nothing is going to happen at the station. That drawing you posted is not official policy transtopic but someones drawing about what should happen. Why would any rail organisation remove the points in to and out of clyde yard for instance which is used to store freight trains in the peak hour curfew periods. Regardless of what some people think you aren't going to get 2 more tracks between homebush and granville.

It looks as if someone has just taken the official sydney trains document and modified it to show there own plans.
simstrain
They have removed before, so why not now. Benefit that less to maintain, light up etc.

As for removing points used by freights, NO ONE HERE POSTED SUCH A SUGGESTION.

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  simstrain Chief Commissioner

The document posted by transtopic shows green lines denoting removal of infrastructure is why I made this comment.

There is no reason to close clyde. Why do you hate clyde so much for RTT?

https://www.environment.nsw.gov.au/heritageapp/ViewHeritageItemDetails.aspx?ID=4800129
  Throughwestmail Train Controller

The document posted by transtopic shows green lines denoting removal of infrastructure is why I made this comment.

There is no reason to close clyde. Why do you hate clyde so much for RTT?

https://www.environment.nsw.gov.au/heritageapp/ViewHeritageItemDetails.aspx?ID=4800129
simstrain
Totally agree with you, and in case anyone missed it, that pie in the sky drawing does show points into the Up yard being removed at both ends and it also shows the removal of Harris Park station. Would cost more to remove than to leave in place.
  SupremeLeaderSmeagol Locomotive Fireman

The document posted by transtopic shows green lines denoting removal of infrastructure is why I made this comment.

There is no reason to close clyde. Why do you hate clyde so much for RTT?

https://www.environment.nsw.gov.au/heritageapp/ViewHeritageItemDetails.aspx?ID=4800129
Totally agree with you, and in case anyone missed it, that pie in the sky drawing does show points into the Up yard being removed at both ends and it also shows the removal of Harris Park station. Would cost more to remove than to leave in place.
Throughwestmail
They better not remove Harris Park! It's actually one point my father uses in promoting his business, and it's good for all the stuff that occurs around Harris Park, since an event there won't end up clogging Parramatta.
  SupremeLeaderSmeagol Locomotive Fireman

The document posted by transtopic shows green lines denoting removal of infrastructure is why I made this comment.

There is no reason to close clyde. Why do you hate clyde so much for RTT?

https://www.environment.nsw.gov.au/heritageapp/ViewHeritageItemDetails.aspx?ID=4800129
Totally agree with you, and in case anyone missed it, that pie in the sky drawing does show points into the Up yard being removed at both ends and it also shows the removal of Harris Park station. Would cost more to remove than to leave in place.
They better not remove Harris Park! It's actually one point my father uses in promoting his business, and it's good for all the stuff that occurs around Harris Park, since an event there won't end up clogging Parramatta.
  Transtopic Assistant Commissioner

Nothing is going to happen to the platforms and tracks at clyde because there is no benefit to removing them. The level crossing will be closed but nothing is going to happen at the station. That drawing you posted is not official policy transtopic but someones drawing about what should happen. Why would any rail organisation remove the points in to and out of clyde yard for instance which is used to store freight trains in the peak hour curfew periods. Regardless of what some people think you aren't going to get 2 more tracks between homebush and granville.

It looks as if someone has just taken the official sydney trains document and modified it to show there own plans.
simstrain
I never said that the drawing I posted is official government policy, and it obviously isn't, but it is nonetheless an official draft planning document prepared by TfNSW, so it gives some indication of the thinking at the time.  There may well have been other draft proposals which have not come to light.  It's not just someone's drawing about what should happen, as you put it, as it is part of the planning process to consider alternative options.  This may have been one of many, but we'll never know.

The suggested removal of points into the Clyde Yard have only been removed at the Clyde end and not the Auburn end.  In the latter case, existing crossovers with the Main and Suburban tracks have been retained as the new track pair at that point is in tunnel and passes underneath.  There may well have been a reason for that for operational purposes, such as the existing Main Line tracks east of Granville continuing to be used by Intercity and freight trains, whereas the new track pair continue in tunnel passing underneath them to connect with the existing Suburban tracks between Lidcombe and Flemington. How can you be so sure that the need for additional tracks between Homebush and Granville won't be considered at some future date?  Never say never, or you might end up with egg on your face.

I did qualify my remarks in suggesting that the document may not all be relevant in the context of the current closure of the Carlingford Line, but that it gives some guide to how things may pan out.
  Transtopic Assistant Commissioner

The document posted by transtopic shows green lines denoting removal of infrastructure is why I made this comment.

There is no reason to close clyde. Why do you hate clyde so much for RTT?

https://www.environment.nsw.gov.au/heritageapp/ViewHeritageItemDetails.aspx?ID=4800129
Totally agree with you, and in case anyone missed it, that pie in the sky drawing does show points into the Up yard being removed at both ends and it also shows the removal of Harris Park station. Would cost more to remove than to leave in place.
They better not remove Harris Park! It's actually one point my father uses in promoting his business, and it's good for all the stuff that occurs around Harris Park, since an event there won't end up clogging Parramatta.
SupremeLeaderSmeagol
I agree that closing Harris Park Station would be "a very brave move", as Sir Humphrey would put it, and frankly I can't ever see it happening.  Unlike Clyde which is a stone's throw from Granville Station, it has a large residential catchment area of its own and there would be major uproar if it were to be closed.

My main purpose in posting this document is to highlight potential adjustments to tracks at Clyde with the closure of the Carlingford Line branch at that location.  Whether you actually close Clyde Station altogether is another matter.  There are also other aspects of the sextuplication proposal between Homebush and Parramatta which I think could be modified in the light of the current metro strategy, but that's another story and warrants a thread of its own, if there isn't one already.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

Transtopic the extra lines are not government policy. This map doesn't show anything of what the government is thinking and is just someone screwing with the official sydney trains road maps.
  Transtopic Assistant Commissioner

Transtopic the extra lines are not government policy. This map doesn't show anything of what the government is thinking and is just someone screwing with the official sydney trains road maps.
simstrain
What's your problem sims?  I suggest you read my last post, if you haven't already, where I acknowledged that it isn't official government policy, but the document I posted IS an official government document.  It's not just someone screwing around with Sydney Trains maps.  Whether it's been accepted as policy or not is beside the point.  I repeat, my purpose in posting the document is to highlight possible adjustments to the track layout at Clyde once the Carlingford Line Branch is closed to promote further discussion, nothing more nothing less.  The sextuplication scheme suggested in the document is an entirely different matter for discussion on another thread and if such a scheme were to be revived, then I think it needs further refinement.

I just don't get your defensive attitude of anything promoted by the government, without questioning it, when there are legitimate issues which in some cases need to be challenged.  You always appear to be so adamant that something will or won't happen.  Are you a government plant?
  zordmaker Train Controller

Location: NSW
Fortunately, unlike the closure and conversion of the ECRL, there are currently plans to operate a number of shuttles using Red Set F1 between Clyde and Carlingford before the closure of the line.
C3765
The F1 shuttles will probably operate between Carlingford and Rosehill only (except for the first and last run of the day) and cross the local there. There is enough time for F1 to get to Carlo and back in the time the local goes to Clyde and back.

There's also talk of running some CPH railmotors in the final days.

More news when it happens...
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

The map is not government policy as you have claimed Transtopic. It is a document for drivers and track workers to the layout of the line that has been modified by someone to push there idea of sextuplification.

For some reason you seem to think it is policy but this government has never talked about any sextuplification of this track. There policy is clearly metro west and the PLR and they have not mentioned any other track modification in this area of Clyde or on the main between Homebush and Parramatta.

Removing the stations as RTT suggested will do nothing but be a waste of time and money even if Clyde is removed as a stop on the timetable. Not that removing Clyde as a stop will do anything to get people in to the city any faster on the T2. This government isn't thinking of adding to the Sydney system. They are thinking of ways to minimise it and replace it with Metro.
  Colonel Leon Junior Train Controller

Location:
Removing a station would streamline the network and reduce maintainance costs. Whether that is economically viable or not obviously depends on the situation.
  Transtopic Assistant Commissioner

The map is not government policy as you have claimed Transtopic. It is a document for drivers and track workers to the layout of the line that has been modified by someone to push there idea of sextuplification.
simstrain
I've never heard a more ridiculous statement and that includes coming from you.  You're really clutching at straws now.

I repeat, for the umpteenth time, that I have never said that the diagram I posted was current government policy.  Are you deaf (or blind)?  When I initially posted the diagram, I explicitly stated that it was an official document prepared within TfNSW in 2013, which has now disappeared off the radar.  It's obviously not current government policy, but that doesn't mean to say that it couldn't be revived in this or some amended format by future governments.  

The sole purpose in posting the document was to highlight possible track alterations at Clyde in the light of the Carlingford Line branch closure.  If you want to continue debate on the possible sextuplication of the Western Line from Homebush to Parramatta, then I suggest you direct your comments to the "Improving the cost efficiency of Sydney Trains operations" thread.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
As a matter of course, most industries remove redundant equipment or things that will cost them money over longterm.

The Western Metro will see a reduction in express services on the DD from Paramatta to City, then will enable increased number of services from SW via Regents Park and Granville as well as other including the Blue Mountains. Deny all you like, but THIS WILL HAPPEN.
  duttonbay Minister for Railways
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

As a matter of course, most industries remove redundant equipment or things that will cost them money over longterm.

The Western Metro will see a reduction in express services on the DD from Paramatta to City, then will enable increased number of services from SW via Regents Park and Granville as well as other including the Blue Mountains. Deny all you like, but THIS WILL HAPPEN.
RTT_Rules
The old tram tracks were tared over and it wasn't until this new light rail was built that anything was done to remove them. Old stations like clyburn are gone but the station footprint is still there and the tracks are in the same place as they were beforehand. The sydney trains system still has a legacy of disused tunnels which have not been dismantled. The tracks across the highway at Warwick Farm were still there for many years after the racecourse branch was closed. Newtown Tram shed is still standing even though it hasn't been used by a tram in over 70 years. Sydney and NSW transport has a history of letting things be and not removing.
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
As a matter of course, most industries remove redundant equipment or things that will cost them money over longterm.

The Western Metro will see a reduction in express services on the DD from Paramatta to City, then will enable increased number of services from SW via Regents Park and Granville as well as other including the Blue Mountains. Deny all you like, but THIS WILL HAPPEN.
The old tram tracks were tared over and it wasn't until this new light rail was built that anything was done to remove them. Old stations like clyburn are gone but the station footprint is still there and the tracks are in the same place as they were beforehand. The sydney trains system still has a legacy of disused tunnels which have not been dismantled. The tracks across the highway at Warwick Farm were still there for many years after the racecourse branch was closed. Newtown Tram shed is still standing even though it hasn't been used by a tram in over 70 years. Sydney and NSW transport has a history of letting things be and not removing.
simstrain
Closing a street to rip up tram tracks is a costly exercise for zero return apart from scrap. Remember the govt tarred them over ASAP to remove the whole era of trams from peoples memories ASAP.

A unused railway station that will attract graffitee and other unsocial behavior, cost money to maintain is a different matter.

There is no value in refilling a tunnel, actually opposite.
  Transtopic Assistant Commissioner

Here is the source to that diagram. https://restoreinnerwestline.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/Homebush-to-Parramatta-6-Track-Schematic.png
simstrain
So what does that prove?  They downloaded/uploaded it the same as anyone else.  That organisation is not the creator of the document as you purport it to be.  Just accept that fact that it's a draft document prepared by TfNSW and let's move on.  Any further comment should be directed to the other thread previously mentioned.
  Transtopic Assistant Commissioner

As a matter of course, most industries remove redundant equipment or things that will cost them money over longterm.

The Western Metro will see a reduction in express services on the DD from Paramatta to City, then will enable increased number of services from SW via Regents Park and Granville as well as other including the Blue Mountains. Deny all you like, but THIS WILL HAPPEN.
RTT_Rules
Can I suggest we continue this discussion on the other thread Shane, as we're getting off topic re Carlingford Line closure.  Cheers.
  Transtopic Assistant Commissioner

The sydney trains system still has a legacy of disused tunnels which have not been dismantled.
simstrain
How do you dismantle a tunnel?
  nswtrains Chief Commissioner

As a matter of course, most industries remove redundant equipment or things that will cost them money over longterm.

The Western Metro will see a reduction in express services on the DD from Paramatta to City, then will enable increased number of services from SW via Regents Park and Granville as well as other including the Blue Mountains. Deny all you like, but THIS WILL HAPPEN.
RTT_Rules
AFAIK the intention of any of the Metros is to reduce use on the DD legacy system so that other services, such as Inter City and freight can have better access to these routes.
  viaprojects Train Controller

. Old stations like clyburn are gone but the station footprint is still there and the tracks are in the same place as they were beforehand.
simstrain


Clyburn has been totally killed off there is no footprint of the station and the tracks have been changed just like the other sections of track in the area ... but there a lot of old track around Parramatta that has not been removed from public roads...

as for Clyde - keep as is - only real public transport for the area  - any changes will have a large impact to the rail network ... ie rail realignment would have to start from Granville and end past Clyde with all the cross overs ...
  simstrain Chief Commissioner



Clyburn has been totally killed off there is no footprint of the station and the tracks have been changed just like the other sections of track in the area ... but there a lot of old track around Parramatta that has not been removed from public roads...

as for Clyde - keep as is - only real public transport for the area  - any changes will have a large impact to the rail network ... ie rail realignment would have to start from Granville and end past Clyde with all the cross overs ...
viaprojects

yes there is still a footprint. The track still deviates exactly where clyburn station used to be and it has not been re aligned at all. Same for the station that used to between lidcombe and flemington.
  trainbrain Chief Commissioner

The sydney trains system still has a legacy of disused tunnels which have not been dismantled.
How do you dismantle a tunnel?
Transtopic
DYNAMITE

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