Murray Basin standardisation

 
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
What would cost difference really be and how would this compare to the cost of not having the dual gauge of the cost of loosing the BG for the future?

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  justarider Assistant Commissioner

Location: Stuck on VR and hoping for better.
My 2 cents worth.

@bevans you're right that separate SG and BG tracks between Maryborough and Geelong would make the most sense, with a couuple of obsevations

1. converting existing(old) BG to SG results is a dogs breakfast -
    Albury NE line is smeg and still years (decades ?) from fixing, Maryborough to Ararat ditto, the rest of SG in Victoria is barely passable.
    Converting  even more is almost certain to be as bad.

2.  running a NEW SG track along the existing easement is in the scheme of things an easy build, and should not interfere with other traffic on the BG line.
    Leave the BG alone and it might just continue it's useful life serving the rest of the unconverted network.

3. Using the BG for passenger traffic has  no problems for existing rolling stock. Sprinters are ideal until/if passenger numbers justify something better.

4. Passenger numbers between Ballarat and Geelong are uncertain, and Ballarart to Maryborough are pretty light - comes down to the politics that a high value V/locity gets the job.

5. Interchange at Ballarart is a price to pay for the low volume journeys - hey !  Ararat and Maryborough passengers already put up with 5 minute couple or de-couple, no real difference.

cheers
John
  james.au Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
Question of clarification, how often is the BG Warrenheip-Gheringhap used for pax car transfers anyway?  

It was said that with the Ballarat line project there was more capacity for these transfers that way, so why the sudden need again by VLine??  Or are we making this up based on historic positions?
  justarider Assistant Commissioner

Location: Stuck on VR and hoping for better.
Clarification James.

There are no passenger trains between Geelong and Ballarat.

Reintroducing the service is a bit of a pipe dream that could piggy back on improved service to the region in general.

As I said the passenger demand is uncertain. With all the gab fest by Geelong council about high speed train, you would have thunk that they check it out closer to home.

As for car transfers, it might be a short cut for maintence required that is stuck at Geelong, but hardly a sole reason to keep the BG

cheers
John
  LancedDendrite Chief Commissioner

Location: North Haverbrook; where the monorail is king!
Question of clarification, how often is the BG Warrenheip-Gheringhap used for pax car transfers anyway?  

It was said that with the Ballarat line project there was more capacity for these transfers that way, so why the sudden need again by VLine??  Or are we making this up based on historic positions?
james.au
If Alstom Ballarat doesn't get the X'Trapolis 2.0 contract then there'll possibly be no need for transfers past 2020.

I think some posters here are letting the Rail Revival Alliance verbal V/Line.
  james.au Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
Clarification James.

There are no passenger trains between Geelong and Ballarat.

Reintroducing the service is a bit of a pipe dream that could piggy back on improved service to the region in general.

As I said the passenger demand is uncertain. With all the gab fest by Geelong council about high speed train, you would have thunk that they check it out closer to home.

As for car transfers, it might be a short cut for maintence required that is stuck at Geelong, but hardly a sole reason to keep the BG

cheers
John
justarider
No im aware that there are no pax trains, i was wondering how often empty car transfers happen?

I agree, for a few random movements, not worth it.
  james.au Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
LancedDendrite
Wheres Tony gone?!
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
Clarification James.

There are no passenger trains between Geelong and Ballarat.

Reintroducing the service is a bit of a pipe dream that could piggy back on improved service to the region in general.

As I said the passenger demand is uncertain. With all the gab fest by Geelong council about high speed train, you would have thunk that they check it out closer to home.

As for car transfers, it might be a short cut for maintence required that is stuck at Geelong, but hardly a sole reason to keep the BG

cheers
John
No im aware that there are no pax trains, i was wondering how often empty car transfers happen?

I agree, for a few random movements, not worth it.
james.au
Theres also the BG freight from Ultima that occasionally runs and the Qube/SSR/PN grains that run on occasion. Is the Ultima freight still even running?
  hbedriver Chief Train Controller

Hardly worth keeping bg between North Geelong and Ballaarat for that handful of non-revenue moves. Steamrail do an annual trip (again, not worth keeping BG for that), the BG goods  and MT transfers can simply run on night shifts.  

Don’t forget, track enhancements on the main Ballaarat line will provide more paths that way
  LancedDendrite Chief Commissioner

Location: North Haverbrook; where the monorail is king!
Wheres Tony gone?!
james.au
He pulled the ripcord. The executive search firm says that his replacement is a 'true visionary' that has 'excellent public relations skills'.
  trainbrain Chief Commissioner

Clarification James.

There are no passenger trains between Geelong and Ballarat.

Reintroducing the service is a bit of a pipe dream that could piggy back on improved service to the region in general.

As I said the passenger demand is uncertain. With all the gab fest by Geelong council about high speed train, you would have thunk that they check it out closer to home.

As for car transfers, it might be a short cut for maintence required that is stuck at Geelong, but hardly a sole reason to keep the BG

cheers
John
No im aware that there are no pax trains, i was wondering how often empty car transfers happen?

I agree, for a few random movements, not worth it.
Theres also the BG freight from Ultima that occasionally runs and the Qube/SSR/PN grains that run on occasion. Is the Ultima freight still even running?
Dangersdan707
yip...............
  Carnot Chief Commissioner

Ultima freight is running twice a week and might even ramp up to three.

BG grain will pick up a lot this harvest too.

As I said earlier - just SG Maryborough to Gheringhap and reopen Inglewood to Eaglehawk if Sea Lake and Manangatang lines aren't converted to SG.
  james.au Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
The ultima freight was supposed to be an SG train. So it would like that track section to be converted.
  Carnot Chief Commissioner

The ultima freight was supposed to be an SG train. So it would like that track section to be converted.
james.au
That was certainly the original intent.  Dual gauge sleepers have even been installed at the siding.

I have a suspicion they'll be a real log-jam of trains between Dunolly and Ballarat in the next few months as SG freight, BG freight, and V/lo passenger trains fight for space and passing opportunities...
  james.au Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
The ultima freight was supposed to be an SG train. So it would like that track section to be converted.
That was certainly the original intent.  Dual gauge sleepers have even been installed at the siding.

I have a suspicion they'll be a real log-jam of trains between Dunolly and Ballarat in the next few months as SG freight, BG freight, and V/lo passenger trains fight for space and passing opportunities...
Carnot
Which will show that they need to do something...

Or maybe the mysterious Ararat-Maryborough loop will take the slack....
  BigShunter Chief Commissioner

Location: St Clair. S.A.
Ultima freight is running twice a week and might even ramp up to three.

BG grain will pick up a lot this harvest too.

As I said earlier - just SG Maryborough to Gheringhap and reopen Inglewood to Eaglehawk if Sea Lake and Manangatang lines aren't converted to SG.
Carnot
Carnot if you reopen the Inglewood line, won't you just have a bigger log-jam on the Bendigo line ? but take the point your making, perhaps some early am hours trains, could help relieve some traffic.

BigShunter.
  Carnot Chief Commissioner

Ultima freight is running twice a week and might even ramp up to three.

BG grain will pick up a lot this harvest too.

As I said earlier - just SG Maryborough to Gheringhap and reopen Inglewood to Eaglehawk if Sea Lake and Manangatang lines aren't converted to SG.
Carnot if you reopen the Inglewood line, won't you just have a bigger log-jam on the Bendigo line ? but take the point your making, perhaps some early am hours trains, could help relieve some traffic.

BigShunter.
BigShunter
Yep, it gives another path for BG trains, and would enable these lines to remain open during and after gauge conversion of Gheringhap to Maryborough.

But if they end up converting the whole lot in one hit, then not much point reopening Inglewood to Eaglehawk unless you want BG passenger trains to service Bridgewater and Inglewood etc.
  james.au Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
Wheres Tony gone?!
He pulled the ripcord. The executive search firm says that his replacement is a 'true visionary' that has 'excellent public relations skills'.
LancedDendrite
Can his replacement sell us a monorail perhaps for Ballarat?  It'll put it on the map for sure....
  Bonzel Locomotive Fireman

The ultima freight was supposed to be an SG train. So it would like that track section to be converted.
james.au
Boxes from Ultima are export and Appleton,Swanson and Victoria docks are all dual gauge so why the need to convert the bg lines north of Dunolly to SG now since the mineral sands to Portland may or may not eventuate at all in the future.
  james.au Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
The ultima freight was supposed to be an SG train. So it would like that track section to be converted.
Boxes from Ultima are export and Appleton,Swanson and Victoria docks are all dual gauge so why the need to convert the bg lines north of Dunolly to SG now since the mineral sands to Portland may or may not eventuate at all in the future.
Bonzel
Elsewhere on these boards and on the internet it was said that this service was facilitated in part by the prospect of being able to operate on SG, hence the SG sleepers bought for the loading siding.  Its longer term viability might be impacted if they have to use BG and so it may cease in the long run if BG remains.
  Carnot Chief Commissioner

The ultima freight was supposed to be an SG train. So it would like that track section to be converted.
Boxes from Ultima are export and Appleton,Swanson and Victoria docks are all dual gauge so why the need to convert the bg lines north of Dunolly to SG now since the mineral sands to Portland may or may not eventuate at all in the future.
Elsewhere on these boards and on the internet it was said that this service was facilitated in part by the prospect of being able to operate on SG, hence the SG sleepers bought for the loading siding.  Its longer term viability might be impacted if they have to use BG and so it may cease in the long run if BG remains.
james.au
If it was SG, it could easily opened up to Interstate markets as well.  As has been proven by grain hauled out of Vic to other states this year from Dunolly etc.
  speedemon08 Mary

Location: I think by now you should have figured it out
The ultima freight was supposed to be an SG train. So it would like that track section to be converted.
Boxes from Ultima are export and Appleton,Swanson and Victoria docks are all dual gauge so why the need to convert the bg lines north of Dunolly to SG now since the mineral sands to Portland may or may not eventuate at all in the future.
Elsewhere on these boards and on the internet it was said that this service was facilitated in part by the prospect of being able to operate on SG, hence the SG sleepers bought for the loading siding.  Its longer term viability might be impacted if they have to use BG and so it may cease in the long run if BG remains.
james.au
Ultima train is likely going to stay, if not at least get longer, in the short term.
  LancedDendrite Chief Commissioner

Location: North Haverbrook; where the monorail is king!
Wheres Tony gone?!
He pulled the ripcord. The executive search firm says that his replacement is a 'true visionary' that has 'excellent public relations skills'.
Can his replacement sell us a monorail perhaps for Ballarat?  It'll put it on the map for sure....
james.au
Nah, it's not for them. It's more of a Sydney idea...
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
Wheres Tony gone?!
He pulled the ripcord. The executive search firm says that his replacement is a 'true visionary' that has 'excellent public relations skills'.
Can his replacement sell us a monorail perhaps for Ballarat?  It'll put it on the map for sure....
Nah, it's not for them. It's more of a Sydney idea...
LancedDendrite
No no no, come back, look, I need some help, the ring came off my pudding can!
  speedemon08 Mary

Location: I think by now you should have figured it out
Ultima freight is running twice a week and might even ramp up to three.

BG grain will pick up a lot this harvest too.

As I said earlier - just SG Maryborough to Gheringhap and reopen Inglewood to Eaglehawk if Sea Lake and Manangatang lines aren't converted to SG.
Carnot if you reopen the Inglewood line, won't you just have a bigger log-jam on the Bendigo line ? but take the point your making, perhaps some early am hours trains, could help relieve some traffic.

BigShunter.
Yep, it gives another path for BG trains, and would enable these lines to remain open during and after gauge conversion of Gheringhap to Maryborough.

But if they end up converting the whole lot in one hit, then not much point reopening Inglewood to Eaglehawk unless you want BG passenger trains to service Bridgewater and Inglewood etc.
Carnot
Less of a pain in the smeg than going via Ballarat and Marybourough. Might actually happen too if enough traction is made.

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