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  mawsonboii Locomotive Driver

Not paying a fare? I see it all the time when I catch the bus. People either have a $20 or $50 note knowing the bus driver doesn't have change. many say I forgot to charge my card but I can at the interchange. and then there's the ones who just ask for a free ride. I've even noticed a certain race of people who just get on, walk to the back of the bus and don't even talk to the driver.

There was once I forgot to charge my metrocard. it was just after xmas and I got the rudest, nastiest bus driver ever, he allowed me to ride the bus to where I was going. I was able to recharge my metrocard, when I got the bus back it was the same driver, I rudely said "told you I'd recharge it".

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  Gayspie Assistant Commissioner

Location: Adelaide, SA
The answer to the bus fare evasion problem is to do what many American cities do and install ticket vending machines /or metrocard recharge machines inside the bus itself similar to what is seen on our trains. Furthermore, having roving security guards inspect tickets and hand out on the spot fines on random bus services will also make huge inroads into our rampant bus fare evasion.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Actual work has started on the Pym-to-Regency section of the South Road project after months of demolitions - shame to see all the trees go at Polonia reserve.
  mawsonboii Locomotive Driver

The answer to the bus fare evasion problem is to do what many American cities do and install ticket vending machines /or metrocard recharge machines inside the bus itself similar to what is seen on our trains. Furthermore, having roving security guards inspect tickets and hand out on the spot fines on random bus services will also make huge inroads into our rampant bus fare evasion.
Gayspie
Yeah something needs to be done. because bus drivers are so vulnerable they choose to say nothing.
  ARG706 Chief Commissioner

Location: SA
Unless they drive for Newton that is. One notoriously unprofessional driver tried to play tough with a fare evader late at night in a 20 year old gas bus.

The result wasn't as bad as what it could have been, but it should be a warning to all bus drivers to not approach fare evaders face to face in an aggressive daring manner in pitch black, whilst bring everyone's attention to the scene.
  DJPeters Assistant Commissioner

The answer to the bus fare evasion problem is to do what many American cities do and install ticket vending machines /or metrocard recharge machines inside the bus itself similar to what is seen on our trains. Furthermore, having roving security guards inspect tickets and hand out on the spot fines on random bus services will also make huge inroads into our rampant bus fare evasion.
Gayspie
What a laugh that has been done and is still probably being done and it has done not one iota of a thing. There are not enough people working on the trains for starters to check every single ticket or rider. And they no sooner have a blitz on one line and move on and the fare evading starts again. Even things put in to stop fare evading do not work, entrance gates at Nourlunga Centre installed there at God only knows what cost and they leave a access gate wide open with no one monitoring it, waste of time and expense putting in the access gates worked by you ticket in the first place.

Pity it could not all be made free travel in the whole Metro area think of the money it would actually save, you would not need tickets printed to start with, you would not need Metrocards made, you would not need any of the validators etc and their on going maintenance, you could remove ticket selling machines and their maintenance. and there are probably a few other things as well.

Also you would not have to worry about the expense of chasing fare evaders that do not pay fines plus a whole host of other things.

But that would never be done though, but I cannot really see the sense in anyone travelling without a ticket as the actual ticket is the cheapest option if you stop and think about it. If caught without a valid ticket the fine is in 3 figures before you get to the cents. Cheaper to purchase the ticket.
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Adelaide is no orphan of fare evasion, it’s a huge problem in all cities.

I was presented with a fine for riding a tram in Melbourne without a ticket - I never paid it, and that was in 2004 in the 15 years since the Victorian authorities never contacted me, and I have been in and out of Melbourne hundreds of times since.

Pretty sure after 15+ years the statute of limitations has passed.

A former boss of mine from years ago caught the tram from Brighton Road to Victoria Square and later North Terrace each way, everyday for YEARS and never once bothered with a ticket. She got a fine once, she claimed the fine was invalid, and didn’t pay, electing to have the government prosecute her - which they never did.
  DJPeters Assistant Commissioner

Quite true about fare evasion Aaron as it is a worldwide problem but as I said though the sheer cost of charging fares with things that need to be manufactured to do it could cost more than the actual fares collected in most cases. Not saying in every case  but in a small city it might be.
  Gayspie Assistant Commissioner

Location: Adelaide, SA
The problem with free public transport is joyriding by bored school students, the mentally ill, and the homeless - plus vandalism by drunks, druggies, and out of control teenagers.
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
All of those things already happen, either by ticketed passengers or evaders.

A free service means that more and more and more people will use it, whether they need to or not, because it’s free. That’s not strictly a bad thing, but it’s also not strictly good either.

Huge demand necessitates more services, which hence necessitates more expense for still nil return.

Once the service has been made free it would be neigh on impossible for any charge at all to be reintroduced.

Keeping the ticket price subsidised/charged at a level where service supply can meet demand is entirely sensible - making it free is not.
  DJPeters Assistant Commissioner

Yes the free in the Entertainment Centre to South Terrace section of the tram service gets well used anytime of the day, it is usually packed almost solid at times. I use the tram a lot and travelling off peak even you get a lot using it simply because it is free. Yes you make valid points and I can see the point.
  mawsonboii Locomotive Driver

The problem with free public transport is joyriding by bored school students, the mentally ill, and the homeless - plus vandalism by drunks, druggies, and out of control teenagers.
Gayspie
I believe both NYC and Chicago have free travel on subways which run 24/7 and become hotels to the homeless. Free travel just makes the situation worse. plus if it's free can you image how much poorer the services will be lol. I mean busses would never show up.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Adelaide is no orphan of fare evasion, it’s a huge problem in all cities.

I was presented with a fine for riding a tram in Melbourne without a ticket - I never paid it, and that was in 2004 in the 15 years since the Victorian authorities never contacted me, and I have been in and out of Melbourne hundreds of times since.

Pretty sure after 15+ years the statute of limitations has passed.

A former boss of mine from years ago caught the tram from Brighton Road to Victoria Square and later North Terrace each way, everyday for YEARS and never once bothered with a ticket. She got a fine once, she claimed the fine was invalid, and didn’t pay, electing to have the government prosecute her - which they never did.
Aaron
I may have told you this story before but I had a co-worker in Melbourne who never, ever bought a valid ticket and she commuted by rail every day from the west to the east. She estimated that she had saved something like $10,000 over the years of not buying tickets.

She was only ever actually caught by ticket inspectors a few times and rather than pay the fine she always elected to go to Magistrate's Court; she said "faulty Myki" the first time and got off; the second time she got off Public Transport Victoria didn't even send someone to prosecute the case and she automatically got off on account of their 'no show'.

I think if average people (especially in Melbourne) realised that it was that easy to get away with it then you'd have mass civil disobedience and nobody would pay at all; PTV simply doesn't have the time or money to prosecute everyone at Magistrate's Court.
  62430 Chief Train Controller

Location: Metro Adelaide
The problem with free public transport is joyriding by bored school students, the mentally ill, and the homeless - plus vandalism by drunks, druggies, and out of control teenagers.
I believe both NYC and Chicago have free travel on subways which run 24/7 and become hotels to the homeless. Free travel just makes the situation worse. plus if it's free can you image how much poorer the services will be lol. I mean busses would never show up.
mawsonboii
Free travel doesn't seem to be the case from the MTA and CTA fare webpages.
  62440 Chief Commissioner

The problem with free public transport is joyriding by bored school students, the mentally ill, and the homeless - plus vandalism by drunks, druggies, and out of control teenagers.
Gayspie
This reminded me of Manchester long ago when they introduced a 3d fare for old age pensioners whatever the distance, so on cold days the buses would be packed with grannies having a social day out in the warmth of a bus as it was cheaper than putting shillings in the meter!
  mawsonboii Locomotive Driver

A standard fine of $220 applies with a maximum penalty of $1.250.

If you got a standard fine as a regular passenger, you'd have to travel on a little over 1000 trips to equal the cost of the fine. (interpeak, peak would be less trips)
a concession you'd have to travel over 2000 trips
(interpeak, peak would be less trips)

If of course you got the maximum penalty then you would need to have travelled closer to or over 10,000 trips. I highly doubt you'd get away with it for that long.
  justapassenger Chief Commissioner

A standard fine of $220 applies with a maximum penalty of $1.250.

If you got a standard fine as a regular passenger, you'd have to travel on a little over 1000 trips to equal the cost of the fine. (interpeak, peak would be less trips)
a concession you'd have to travel over 2000 trips
(interpeak, peak would be less trips)

If of course you got the maximum penalty then you would need to have travelled closer to or over 10,000 trips. I highly doubt you'd get away with it for that long.
mawsonboii
Your maths is out by an order of magnitude

Assuming a regular passenger who makes a 80:20 mix of peak/interpeak trips (e.g. working three full days per week and two half-days) using a regular Metrocard it would actually only take 65 trips to equal the cost of the expiation fee. Six and a half weeks of travelling each day.

If it's a 100:0 mix, it would only take 59 trips. With a 0:100 mix, it would take 107 trips.

Based on the number of times I've travelled by train or tram without having my ticket checked, it would certainly be possible if you travel in the peaks where there isn't room for inspectors to move down the train. But you never know whether you're on trip #1 or #65.

I was impressed by the security guard one night who physically removed a fare evader at Lonsdale from what was the last train before a late night bustitution period rather than having the inspector bother with the paperwork for a bloke who certainly wasn't going to give his real name/address. This is the sole reason that the platform at Kudla should not be removed.
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
The size of the fine is entirely irrelevant if they have no way of enforcing payment.

I can’t tell you what my fine in Victoria was, most surely many multiples of the journey cost, but there was no way I was ever going to pay - what were they going to do extradite me?

Even if I was in SA realistically how would they enforce payment?
  DJPeters Assistant Commissioner

The size of the fine is entirely irrelevant if they have no way of enforcing payment.

I can’t tell you what my fine in Victoria was, most surely many multiples of the journey cost, but there was no way I was ever going to pay - what were they going to do extradite me?

Even if I was in SA realistically how would they enforce payment?
Aaron
Again I must agree with what Aaron said, simply not worth the time or trouble to actually follow them up. Probably cost more in the chasing up than what the fine actually was.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
The size of the fine is entirely irrelevant if they have no way of enforcing payment.

I can’t tell you what my fine in Victoria was, most surely many multiples of the journey cost, but there was no way I was ever going to pay - what were they going to do extradite me?

Even if I was in SA realistically how would they enforce payment?
Again I must agree with what Aaron said, simply not worth the time or trouble to actually follow them up. Probably cost more in the chasing up than what the fine actually was.
DJPeters
If it was China it would go on your social credit file and you'll get a black mark next to your name - their new Orwellian system is better than none.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Apparently the announcement regarding the alignment/construction method of the Darlington-Torrens section of South Road is immanent. I was arguing with a friend the other day about the various methods they could use, advantages/disadvantages.
  • Cut and cover, entirely possible and probably cheapest option but unlikely because they'll have to close sections of South Road at a time and that's political poisonous.
  • Bored tunnel; most expensive option by far and for some reason the most likely; also would take the longest at a projected finish date of 2026. I'm not sure if given the cost that they'll be able to resist the urge to toll?
  • Elevated motorway (like the South Road 'superway'), again a cheaper option than a bored tunnel and because much of the area from Cross Road to Darlington is already industrial/retail I'd imagine there may not be a lot of local objection to an overhead road.
  • Widening the road and trenching the motorway as was done with Torrens to Torrens. Not sure where this comes in ranking in terms of cost (perhaps one of our resident engineers might be able to comment?) but it would be a faster option than bored tunnel.
Presumably any of those options have lots of land acquisition involved by especially the trench option.
  kipioneer Chief Commissioner

Location: Aberfoyle Park
I notice the car dealership just south of the Cross Road overpass is in the process of being demolished.    What will become of the site?

Left vacant until some decision is made on the road or rebuilt to be compusorily acquired in a couple of years time?
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Australian Motors are rebuilding - I know the business manager there.
  mawsonboii Locomotive Driver

A standard fine of $220 applies with a maximum penalty of $1.250.

If you got a standard fine as a regular passenger, you'd have to travel on a little over 1000 trips to equal the cost of the fine. (interpeak, peak would be less trips)
a concession you'd have to travel over 2000 trips
(interpeak, peak would be less trips)

If of course you got the maximum penalty then you would need to have travelled closer to or over 10,000 trips. I highly doubt you'd get away with it for that long.
Your maths is out by an order of magnitude

Assuming a regular passenger who makes a 80:20 mix of peak/interpeak trips (e.g. working three full days per week and two half-days) using a regular Metrocard it would actually only take 65 trips to equal the cost of the expiation fee. Six and a half weeks of travelling each day.

If it's a 100:0 mix, it would only take 59 trips. With a 0:100 mix, it would take 107 trips.

Based on the number of times I've travelled by train or tram without having my ticket checked, it would certainly be possible if you travel in the peaks where there isn't room for inspectors to move down the train. But you never know whether you're on trip #1 or #65.

I was impressed by the security guard one night who physically removed a fare evader at Lonsdale from what was the last train before a late night bustitution period rather than having the inspector bother with the paperwork for a bloke who certainly wasn't going to give his real name/address. This is the sole reason that the platform at Kudla should not be removed.
justapassenger
Yeah I knew my maths was off as soon as I thought about it a bit more lol.

What does fare-evading at Lonsdale have to do with Kudla station being removed?
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Lonsdale and Kudla are both places no one goes to by choice. As such they are the perfect places to ‘leave’ fare evaders, that and neither has any station infrastructure that can be reasonably damaged more than it already is.

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