Ballarat Line upgrades underway

 
Topic moved from News by dthead on 20 Nov 2017 12:49
  justarider Deputy Commissioner

Location: Free at last, free at last
This got me thinking about how annoying yet another stop on the Ballarat line will be, particularly on weekends and off-peak times and I guess the only consolation will be the elimination of the occasional crosses at Caroline Springs and the usual timed crosses at Rockbank due to the implementation of double line working in 6 weeks or so.

Well suck it up, because there'll be another two at least, at Thornhill Park and Deanside.
ZH836301
no need to suck anything, and @vinelander not to worry.

The new time table (after mid December) is clear.
The Ballarat line does not stop at Cobblebank (nor Rockbank). The SAS starting from Baccus or Melton is another story.

cheers
John

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  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

I wasn't sure if it was a bus or a train this morning from Ballarat to Ararat but in fact they bothered to run a train despite suspension of service to Melbourne. Very few of us going outbound to Ararat at that time of morning though.
don_dunstan
Good that they are running a train. Sounds like the bustitution is still having an impact though; when I’ve caught the morning down Ararat it’s been solidly busy.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
I wasn't sure if it was a bus or a train this morning from Ballarat to Ararat but in fact they bothered to run a train despite suspension of service to Melbourne. Very few of us going outbound to Ararat at that time of morning though.
Good that they are running a train. Sounds like the bustitution is still having an impact though; when I’ve caught the morning down Ararat it’s been solidly busy.
potatoinmymouth
Maybe only about 30 people on the whole Vlocity 3-car to Ararat. Almost everyone going through to Stawell and beyond on the bus too which was interesting.
  justarider Deputy Commissioner

Location: Free at last, free at last
I wasn't sure if it was a bus or a train this morning from Ballarat to Ararat but in fact they bothered to run a train despite suspension of service to Melbourne. Very few of us going outbound to Ararat at that time of morning though.
Good that they are running a train. Sounds like the bustitution is still having an impact though; when I’ve caught the morning down Ararat it’s been solidly busy.
Maybe only about 30 people on the whole Vlocity 3-car to Ararat. Almost everyone going through to Stawell and beyond on the bus too which was interesting.
don_dunstan
Interesting indeed.
Just anecdotal but reinforces my thoughts that Ararat is not so much a destination, rather a gateway to the western district & beyond.

cheers
John
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
This got me thinking about how annoying yet another stop on the Ballarat line will be, particularly on weekends and off-peak times and I guess the only consolation will be the elimination of the occasional crosses at Caroline Springs and the usual timed crosses at Rockbank due to the implementation of double line working in 6 weeks or so.

Well suck it up, because there'll be another two at least, at Thornhill Park and Deanside.


No land available at Melton to store trains. The closest land is between Melton and Cobblebank OR at the Maddingley Sidings at Bacchus Marsh which has ample room to expand if necessary.

There's a full metric sh1t-tonne available at Melton.

Ballarat users pay peanuts, so they should just get services as an extension from Melton - prove me wrong.

*Wyndham + Melton - RER style
*Airport + North - RER style
*Sunbury - metro picking up all the stops

There is not enough patronage from Ballarat to justify anything more.  REALLY Question
ZH836301

Maybe keep to your own patch for a number of reasons that are apparent or will become so and not meddle with the daily travellers in this neck of the woods...
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
This got me thinking about how annoying yet another stop on the Ballarat line will be, particularly on weekends and off-peak times and I guess the only consolation will be the elimination of the occasional crosses at Caroline Springs and the usual timed crosses at Rockbank due to the implementation of double line working in 6 weeks or so.

Well suck it up, because there'll be another two at least, at Thornhill Park and Deanside.
no need to suck anything, and @vinelander not to worry.

The new time table (after mid December) is clear.
The Ballarat line does not stop at Cobblebank (nor Rockbank). The SAS starting from Baccus or Melton is another story.

cheers
John
justarider

...however the weekend timetable may be a different story...unless 'Marsh locals are going to operate on weekends as well.

Mike.
  justarider Deputy Commissioner

Location: Free at last, free at last
@vinelander, mike you're correct of course.

Weekend is still SAS, but stretching the Ballan to SCS from 1hr 5min to 1hr 7min is hardly going to hurt you, especially when consider it's more likely to actually run to schedule.

cheers
John
  ZH836301 Chief Commissioner

Location: BleakCity
So rather than give a half-useful service to Rockbank and Cobblebank we're going to skip them to save a few minutes for the likes of Ballan?

Yes Minister couldn't write it better - build a new station, then have the trains just run straight through it.

Maybe keep to your own patch for a number of reasons that are apparent or will become so and not meddle with the daily travellers in this neck of the woods...
Vinelander

So you're a self-proclaimed PT campaigner, but only where it benefits you - typical hypocrisy.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
So rather than give a half-useful service to Rockbank and Cobblebank we're going to skip them to save a few minutes for the likes of Ballan?

Yes Minister couldn't write it better - build a new station, then have the trains just run straight through it.

Maybe keep to your own patch for a number of reasons that are apparent or will become so and not meddle with the daily travellers in this neck of the woods...

So you're a self-proclaimed PT campaigner, but only where it benefits you - typical hypocrisy.
ZH836301

It's good to know that your bile remains intact when you descend from your higher plane...

As you travel around on your motorised two wheeled conveyance...perhaps a Vespa, observing the rail network from a distance...it might be an advantage to leave the bike at home and actually travel on the Ballarat line as I do...both during weekdays and on weekends.

You'll soon find at this time that patronage at Ballan is way in excess of your guesstimate and also well in excess of Rockbank and as Rockbank, Cobblebank and the planned stations to be constructed when the local service operates 7 days a week and will be bypassed by the Ballarat express service.

Ballarat will then become a frequent, semi-express schedule and have its timetable accelerated accordingly.

Mike.
  ZH836301 Chief Commissioner

Location: BleakCity
So you're completely oblivious to the scale of development all along the line?

The new timetable skips both Rockbank and Cobblebank leaving them with a pathetic hourly service.  Why?  To save three minutes on a Ballarat service?  Why aren't they stopping?  It defies all logic and reason.  

The number of new housing developments built, under construction, or planned for the area is astounding.  Woodlea, just one of the estates now under construction in Rockbank, will have 7000 homes (the entirety of Ballan has just over 1000).  Another is underway south of the freeway, and that still leaves the west side of Leakes Rd for similar development.

It will be solid suburbia from Caroline Springs to Melton.

Melton needs a 15 minute service, now.  Construction needs to begin on stations at Thornhill Park and Deanside, now.

As you travel around on your motorised two wheeled conveyance...perhaps a Vespa
Vinelander

A Vespa is not a bike, it's a motorised handbag.
  Donald Chief Commissioner

Location: Donald. Duck country.
Well give Melton a 15 minute service now.  Extend the Metro system.  
Ballarat (and Ballan!) deserve an intercity service with minimal stops without stopping at city stations like Melton, Cobblebank & Rockbank.
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
As you travel around on your motorised two wheeled conveyance...perhaps a Vespa, observing the rail network from a distance...it might be an advantage to leave the bike at home and actually travel on the Ballarat line as I do...both during weekdays and on weekends.

Mike.
The Vinelander
Nothing wrong with Vespas Mike although as a staunch Lambretta man myself I do consider them a little mundane.

What are you trying to imply by suggesting that ZH rides a scooter? Such prejudice. 60 million Italians can't be wrong you know.......
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
As you travel around on your motorised two wheeled conveyance...perhaps a Vespa

A Vespa is not a bike, it's a motorised handbag.
ZH836301
Ah, the prejudice is strong in this one too.

Plenty of us have a Vespa / Lambretta or 7 proudly sitting in the shed next to our Aprilias, Guzzis, Ducatis, Jap bikes etc. I even know a few blokes who ride those TractorGlide things from Milwaukee who own scooters. Maybe you should try it sometime, they are a heap of fun. Open your mind Grasshopper
  justarider Deputy Commissioner

Location: Free at last, free at last
So you're completely oblivious to the scale of development all along the line?

The new timetable skips both Rockbank and Cobblebank leaving them with a pathetic hourly service.Why?  To save three minutes   on a Ballarat service?  Why aren't they stopping?  It defies all logic and reason.  
ZH836301
..............

It will be solid suburbia from Caroline Springs to Melton.

Melton needs a 15 minute service, now.  Construction needs to begin on stations at Thornhill Park and Deanside, now.

here we go again ZH. your little bit of hyperbole can't stand without some correction.

"..pathetic hourly service..." well try reading the TT again:
morning peak departing Cobblebank is 6:17 6:33 6:45 7:08 7:20 7:51 8:16(arr SCS 8:54)
afternoon peak arriving Cobblebank is 4:09 4:45 5:12 5:31 5:56 6:36(dep SCS 5:59)

"..save three minutes .." we all know you detest express services with a passion, but it is not just one stop.
The various express options Marsh to Sunshine/Foots/SCS save up to 11 minutes.

And as usual totally ignoring the available paths on RRL that is chocka with the Geelong trains.

"Melton needs a 15 minute service" absolutely agree.
When that becomes a Metro service, with quad tracks, the Vline services will all be express Melton to Sunshine at least, with no pesky SAS getting in the way. Then those VLO will truly fly, and the SAS sparks able to max out.

Until then, the Ararat line is what it is.
The timetablers do the best with what they have got and no amount of gunzelling from either of us will change that.

cheers
John
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

This got me thinking about how annoying yet another stop on the Ballarat line will be, particularly on weekends and off-peak times and I guess the only consolation will be the elimination of the occasional crosses at Caroline Springs and the usual timed crosses at Rockbank due to the implementation of double line working in 6 weeks or so.

Well suck it up, because there'll be another two at least, at Thornhill Park and Deanside.
no need to suck anything, and @vinelander not to worry.

The new time table (after mid December) is clear.
The Ballarat line does not stop at Cobblebank (nor Rockbank). The SAS starting from Baccus or Melton is another story.

cheers
John
justarider
Not entirely correct .  When a local Bmh service is running Off Peak Weekdays and Peaks Weekdays then Melton shorts and Marsh shorts service Cobblebank. At other times evenings and all Weekends then Ballarat/Wendouree  are SAS including Cobblebank .
  justarider Deputy Commissioner

Location: Free at last, free at last
This got me thinking about how annoying yet another stop on the Ballarat line will be, particularly on weekends and off-peak times and I guess the only consolation will be the elimination of the occasional crosses at Caroline Springs and the usual timed crosses at Rockbank due to the implementation of double line working in 6 weeks or so.

Well suck it up, because there'll be another two at least, at Thornhill Park and Deanside.
no need to suck anything, and @vinelander not to worry.

The new time table (after mid December) is clear.
The Ballarat line does not stop at Cobblebank (nor Rockbank). The SAS starting from Baccus or Melton is another story.

cheers
John
Not entirely correct .  When a local Bmh service is running Off Peak Weekdays and Peaks Weekdays then Melton shorts and Marsh shorts service Cobblebank. At other times evenings and all Weekends then Ballarat/Wendouree  are SAS including Cobblebank .
kuldalai
indeed, was corrected yesterday.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
As you travel around on your motorised two wheeled conveyance...perhaps a Vespa, observing the rail network from a distance...it might be an advantage to leave the bike at home and actually travel on the Ballarat line as I do...both during weekdays and on weekends.

Mike.
Nothing wrong with Vespas Mike although as a staunch Lambretta man myself I do consider them a little mundane.

What are you trying to imply by suggesting that ZH rides a scooter? Such prejudice. 60 million Italians can't be wrong you know.......
BrentonGolding

ZH let slip in another thread that he is a two wheeled motorised conveyance rider...and I took it a degree further by calling it a Vespa. However my comments stand. You can't be riding your Honda Goldwing...or a Vespa and with accuracy comment on patronage numbers from various stations on the Ballarat or any other line.

Mike.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
Cobblebank station Community open day...

https://railprojectsvictoria.createsend1.com/t/ViewEmail/r/E348279D1D00B4442540EF23F30FEDED/C7D54B5D0442F0F9FE6194DE962A274B
  trainbrain Chief Commissioner
  ZH836301 Chief Commissioner

Location: BleakCity
here we go again ZH. your little bit of hyperbole can't stand without some correction.
justarider

The base frequency during the day is hourly, there is nothing preventing those trains stopping to make it half hourly.


When that becomes a Metro service, with quad tracks, the Vline services will all be express Melton to Sunshine at least, with no pesky SAS getting in the way. Then those VLO will truly fly, and the SAS sparks able to max out.
justarider

The reality is, there will be no quadding - it is economically unviable.

You cannot justify quadding to eliminate a few stops on the relatively short trip out to Ballarat.  The new timetable gives 25min Melton-Sunshine, or 22min skipping Cobblebank, Rockbank and Deer Park.  Another two stations at Thornhill Park and Deanside aren't going to add much to that time penalty.  

The most economically appropriate solution is to just run Ballarat services as an extension of stoppers to Melton.  You might not like that, but the reality is, who's going to pay for quadding?  Not Ballarat or Ballan users paying peanuts for periodicals.

Consider we don't yet even have express track to Dandenong/Frankston, then consider the statistics:

Municipality - Population (2018) / Workers for Melbourne/Yarra/Port Phillip (JtW 2016)

Casey - 340k / 13.3k
Cardinia - 107k / 2.9k

Frankston - 142k / 5.1k
Mornington Peninsula - 166k / 3.7k

Ballarat -107k / 1.2k
Geelong - 252k / 6.1k

Combined, those southeastern councils have a population over 750k, but more importantly they have over 25k inner city workers, that is, 20x more combined than Ballarat.  And that doesn't even consider places further down the line in Baw Baw or Latrobe.

The focus needs to be on amplification to outer suburban areas, not frivolous upgrades for places like Ballarat or Geelong.  

ZH let slip in another thread that he is a two wheeled motorised conveyance rider...and I took it a degree further by calling it a Vespa. However my comments stand. You can't be riding your Honda Goldwing...or a Vespa and with accuracy comment on patronage numbers from various stations on the Ballarat or any other line.
Vinelander

Nobody cares about Ballarat - by metropolitan standards the loadings are abysmal, as expected from the above numbers.

Do you really think riding on a few trains gives you more insight than the actual statistics?  Because that's what you're claiming.

Plenty of us have a Vespa / Lambretta or 7 proudly sitting in the shed next to our Aprilias, Guzzis, Ducatis, Jap bikes etc. I even know a few blokes who ride those TractorGlide things from Milwaukee who own scooters. Maybe you should try it sometime, they are a heap of fun. Open your mind Grasshopper
BrentonGolding
For something small to wring the neck of, nothing beats a postie bike.
  BigShunter Chief Commissioner

Location: St Clair. S.A.
Nothing wrong with Vespas Mike although as a staunch Lambretta man myself I do consider them a little mundane.

What are you trying to imply by suggesting that ZH rides a scooter? Such prejudice. 60 million Italians can't be wrong you know.......
BrentonGolding
Trains & Motorbikes it only matter of how many wheels to cart people around, so while ZH is doing wheel stands past Cobblebank, Rockbank, Melton and what ever else on his postie bike, it won't be hard to point the bone if someone starts doing Donuts in the carpark at Ballan........Razz

Anyhow BG being of British heritage I thought you'd be sporting a Beeza, Triumph or Norton.....Shocked

BigShunter.
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
Anyhow BG being of British heritage I thought you'd be sporting a Beeza, Triumph or Norton.....Shocked

BigShunter.
BigShunter
British heritage? You mean like back in the 1850s or whenever it was that my forebears fled the old dart due to religious persicution or whatever it was? At least 5th gen (South) Australian on both sides of my family. Certainly don't consider myself British in any way, shape or form and though i like Brit bikes to look at I just painted the garage floor......

Wannabe Italian maybe but that's a story for another time.
  justarider Deputy Commissioner

Location: Free at last, free at last
Anyhow BG being of British heritage I thought you'd be sporting a Beeza, Triumph or Norton.....Shocked

BigShunter.
British heritage? You mean like back in the 1850s or whenever it was that my forebears fled the old dart due to religious persicution or whatever it was? At least 5th gen (South) Australian on both sides of my family. Certainly don't consider myself British in any way, shape or form and though i like Brit bikes to look at I just painted the garage floor......

Wannabe Italian maybe but that's a story for another time.
BrentonGolding
mmm trumpets !  Can only buy so many cans of degeaser before the shop assist looks at you funny and calls the cops.
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
Do you really think riding on a few trains gives you more insight than the actual statistics?  Because that's what you're claiming.
Zh836301
You can link what you see back to the figures and easily work out why they might be where they stand.
  david harvey Chief Train Controller

Location: Bairnsdale Wharf Line
As you travel around on your motorised two wheeled conveyance...perhaps a Vespa, observing the rail network from a distance...it might be an advantage to leave the bike at home and actually travel on the Ballarat line as I do...both during weekdays and on weekends.

Mike.
Nothing wrong with Vespas Mike although as a staunch Lambretta man myself I do consider them a little mundane.

What are you trying to imply by suggesting that ZH rides a scooter? Such prejudice. 60 million Italians can't be wrong you know.......
BrentonGolding

It’s time to sort out this dissension in the ranks and come to an gentleman's agreement
 but seriously this post is up to 19 pages
and I’m betting it will make 50pages by the time the upgrades are finished . (I’m sorry that’s a miss print)


I encourage free speech and robust debate and would like to see the vesper issue settled by race similar to the race from London to Edinborough that was on TV program “Top Gear” between a car, a motor bike and steam loco Tornado
( Look up U tube great story).    

A race from Southern X to Melton between a Vesper, a Gogo mobile and a Velocity rail car. No further because the Gogo mobile would run out of brake’s coming down Anthony’s Cutting.
Im not a betting man ,but it would be a close race    

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